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Francisco Araujo da Costa

Reading from The World of Ice and Fire

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Sounds like my earlier assessment on this thread of the likely material was pretty accurate, based on that Frodo guy's preliminary feedback from the reading.

Bunch of Targaryen stuff again.

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That's pretty much right. The North will get as much coverage as the other regions (more, actually, as they'll be getting a partial family tree where some other regions won't, I think), but the history of the Iron Throne trumps them all in the book.

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That's pretty much right. The North will get as much coverage as the other regions (more, actually, as they'll be getting a partial family tree where some other regions won't, I think), but the history of the Iron Throne trumps them all in the book.

Hmm. The only concerning part about that is that if Martin has spent such a tremendous amount of time fleshing out the details of the Targaryen dynasty, then it seems that their significance in the book universe exceeds that of just a 300 year blip on Westeros's 12,000 year history.

Meaning that the dream of a Westeros split back into the Seven Kingdoms by series end is unlikely to be realised, given the above. The Targaryens just appear to be too significant from Martin's point of view.

Interesting. Look forward to more readings in future.

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Come on, the whole thing about going back before the Conquest was never an issue in the novels. The ambitious and power hungry people are mostly way too ambitious and power hungry to not want the Iron Throne. Especially those who consider themselves to have claims to said throne.

Robb was only declared King in the North because he had no claim to the Iron Throne, and had not yet won his war. But guess what would have happened if Robb had stuck around until the very end of the series, defeating/outliving all the other claimants to the Iron Throne? He would have claimed the whole Realm for himself by 'Right of Conquest'...

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Was Argilac's daughter named Argalia. I just saw it on a facebook page

IIRC, that originally appeared in the Lineages of the Seven Kingdoms book as seen in the TV series (with the entries written by Bryan Cogman, not GRRM).

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No, it is not Argalia. It's similar, though. I suspect Bryan had an earlier name from GRRM, which he has since changed.

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IIRC, that originally appeared in the Lineages of the Seven Kingdoms book as seen in the TV series (with the entries written by Bryan Cogman, not GRRM).

Yes, it was a snapshot of that book.

No, it is not Argalia. It's similar, though. I suspect Bryan had an earlier name from GRRM, which he has since changed.

So does it start and end with en "a". Argila?

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As I was browsing through tumblr I found this little gem. She goes into more detail then I have seen elsewhere about what GRRM read, from details about the Targaryens leaving Valyria for Westeros to a more in-depth look at the Conquest. It seems to be pretty accurate so far? There were a few bits that made me extremely excited, like story about Visenya and the Arryn boy king and the "Yellow Toad of Dorne". And it looks like the book is going to be released a year after The Lands of Ice and Fire.

(I hope I posted this in the proper place. If not, I apologize in advance)

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Thanks for the post.

So Balerion was born in Valyria.

Aegon said to Harren "When the sun sets, your line shall end." I think Aegon may have inherited the gift for prophecy like his forebear Daenys the Dreamer. Aegon was described as an enigma, with only one close friend, and he was a great warrior. He sounds a lot like Rhaegar.

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So the Storm King's daughter was named Argella of House Durrendon, not Argalia. :D

And Torrhen Stark had a brother named Brandon Snow who went to treat with Aegon, accompanied by 3 maesters. No chance to warg dragons there

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Wonderful!

Torhenn Stark brought 30,000 men down through the Neck. And the Lannisters and Reach combined could only raise 55,000.

The North was FAR more powerful back then than they are today, compared to the other regions.

I"m off to start a thread about it!

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I wonder, did Queen Regent Shara pull have a hand in the untimely death of her royal husband?

She was made ruler of Vale and her son became king, a pre-Conquest Cersei.

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I wonder, did Queen Regent Shara pull have a hand in the untimely death of her royal husband?

She was made ruler of Vale and her son became king, a pre-Conquest Cersei.

She's described too as the most beautiful woman of Westeros.

I really like the tidbits about Argilac the Arrogant giving the dornish princess her surname and her telling Rhaenys that Dorne has no king.

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And the Lannisters and Reach combined could only raise 55,000.

Alternatively, the Lannisters and the Gardners were too suspicious of one another and their rival kings to denude their lands to deal with the paltry forces of the Targaryens and so raised a sizable but not at all anything like maximal force.

Whereas the North, being virtually impregnable and no longer having to concern itself with rivals, prepared to go all-out.

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Veeeery interesting.

Aegon's original conquest has a lot of implications for those intending on following in his footsteps (Dany especially). If this summary is accurate, then Aegon's conquest took two years, relied very heavily on the aid of Rhaenys, Visenya, and Orys, and did not take place in the winter (something already hinted by a brief mention in AGOT), given that the Arryns were at the Eyrie instead of the Gates of the Moon. He relied heavily on the Riverlords' hatred of the Ironborn to take the Riverlands (interesting implications for Dany there), treachery granted the Targ contingent Storm's End (interesting, given where we left Young Griff during ADWD), the "conquest of the Vale" sounds like a bit of a joke, and the Targs captured the Lannister king before he made it back to the Rock. Other than Harrenhal, it seems that none of the royal palaces were actually "attacked" (by that I mean, in battle) by the dragons at all.

The whole situation sounds more like Aegon was intending on invading all along, and intentionally provoked Argilac into doing something stupid to his envoy in order to give himself an excuse to attack. It wouldn't have taken a genius to realize that the Storm King would consider Aegon offering of a bastard as a marriage candidate for Argiliac's only daughter to be insulting. Aegon's response to the Storm King cutting off his envoy's hands was, according to this, to attack the entire continent, not just the Storm King. Given the presence of the Painted Table, this sounds like Aegon wasn't provoked by the attack on his envoy---he intentionally provoked the Storm King into doing something stupid so Aegon would look marginally less greedy.

I'm curious what was going on with the Stark contingent. When Walder Frey sent a bastard to Riverrun as an envoy, it was clearly viewed by everyone involved as an insult. Torrhen sent his bastard brother to Aegon as an envoy, along with three maesters. That could have been meant as an insult, although given Aegon's apparent closeness with his own bastard brother, maybe not. Though the three maesters are a puzzle; that seems like a really bizarre choice of envoys.

So Aegon's incest wasn't unusual for the Targs (post-exile, at the very least), but his polygamy definitely was. Aegon himself had a Velaryon mother (so his parents weren't brother/sister), and Orys Baratheon was Aegon's BFF, the very first Hand of the King. Interesting that the Targs brought five dragons from Valyria, and four of them died. How? In battle? Some other way?

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Alternatively, the Lannisters and the Gardners were too suspicious of one another and their rival kings to denude their lands to deal with the paltry forces of the Targaryens and so raised a sizable but not at all anything like maximal force.

Whereas the North, being virtually impregnable and no longer having to concern itself with rivals, prepared to go all-out.

Come on Ran. Why did George add the bit about the 55,000 being the largest host ever raised in Westeros up to that point? You don't say that kind of thing unless the host is of stupendous size for its time.

We are told that the Reach on its own can raise 70,000 men today. So it means they never raised an army close to that size in the past.

Clearly army sizes were smaller back then. And yet, the North's army back then was massively larger than Robb's army today.

The logical conclusion is clear.

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