Can someone explain the "Fake Aegon" theory for me, please?

[Jon Icefyre]

Finally, about Aegon being a Blackfyre. He has been declared as Rhaegar's son. If he's really a Blackfyre is the plan to win the kingdom and then reveal his true identity or to live out his days as Aegon? The latter seems a bit hollow from a Blackfyre point of view, as in they put a Blackfyre on the throne but all his subjects think he's Rhaegar's son.

That's a good question I mean what's the point of putting a blackfyre on the throne if no one knows he's a blackfyre? Vary's and Illyrio will know but once they die the truth dies with them and the history book will just see it as a targaryen reign so idk maybe they don't care which begs the question are they really blackfyre loyalists???I think revealing Aegon's true identity once/if he takes the throne will go a long way into showing Vary's and Illyrio's true motives.

[Victor227]

That's a good question I mean what's the point of putting a blackfyre on the throne if no one knows he's a blackfyre? Vary's and Illyrio will know but once they die the truth dies with them and the history book will just see it as a targaryen reign so idk maybe they don't care which begs the question are they really blackfyre loyalists???I think revealing Aegon's true identity once/if he takes the throne will go a long way into showing Vary's and Illyrio's true motives.

Why bother doing that? They're men of secrets. They don't need to show the world that they just tricked it. They just need the knowledge that they put their prince on the thrown and vindicated the whole Blackfyre legacy.

That aside, there's no definite proof one way or the other. There's a bit of symbolism and everyone saying 'it's too tough to do a switch' when it really isn't outside the realm of possibility. We may never even find out one way or the other. Perhaps if Aegon wins in the end, that'll be a theme of it, that power trumps the truth, along with what people choose.

[Jon Icefyre]

Why bother doing that? They're men of secrets. They don't need to show the world that they just tricked it. They just need the knowledge that they put their prince on the thrown and vindicated the whole Blackfyre legacy.

That aside, there's no definite proof one way or the other. There's a bit of symbolism and everyone saying 'it's too tough to do a switch' when it really isn't outside the realm of possibility. We may never even find out one way or the other. Perhaps if Aegon wins in the end, that'll be a theme of it, that power trumps the truth, along with what people choose.

Only it's not really vindicating its just a cop out version of vindication. If the realm doesn't acknowledge their acceptance of house Blackfyre as the royal house of westeros then It's not real vindication for house blackfyre because they're ruling under another houses name. Sure Aegon might be ruling so Vary's and Illyrio succeeded in putting who they wanted on the iron throne but in the long run the only house who is truly benefiting from this is house Targaryen as the kids of Aegon and their kids and so on will all think they are full blown Targaryens. But then again maybe Varys and Illyrio don't care about the Blackfyre and Targaryen rivalry maybe they simply want someone with the blood of old Valyria who they can raise, train, and manipulate any way they sit fit to becoming a good king regardless of what his lineage truly is. As long as he looks the part and can play the part and be a good king for the realm that's all they care about. Ur right about that power theme that Varys was talkin about being important I could totally see the series or at least WOW ending on that note.

[Saci Targaryen]

interesting theory, but isn't Darkstar too old to be real Aegon?

I dont remember how old is he, but he is rather 30-35 than about 20 ;)

No. Arianne mentions that Darkstar is about her age, and she is 22. He is either the real Aegon, or the last of the Blackfyres.

[Lion of Judah]

It all stems from the Blackfyre rebellion and the belief that Varys is a Blackfyre Targaryan. If it turns out to be so then he has no intention on seeing a true Targaryan such Dany or Aegon sit the throne. Meaning the boy that he claims to Aegon more than likely is not Aegon.

[Saci Targaryen]

On a serious note, Dark Star´s "chapter" is on page 424 of AFFC. This is what we "supposedly" know about him:

1-) He is a

Dyane

2-) He has typical Valyrian features, which are not uncommon for Daynes(silver hair, violet eyes).

3-) He is the cousin of Ser Arthur Dayne, and complains to Arianne how everyone has heard of his cousin, but no one has heard of him.

4-) Doran mentions that he is the most dangerous man in all of Dorne.

5-) He was the only man on Arianne´s entourage who wasn´t a close friend of hers. In fact, it is never explained why Arianne included him on her plot on the first place, other than she needed his "sword and his castle". Someone tells Arianne that there are other "men with swords and castles in Dorne, who are less dangerous than him"

6-) He tells Myrcella that unlike his cousin Arthur, he is of the "night".

7-) He mentions that he as been "wet-nursed" on poisions of all sorts, and that any snake who bit him would probably die.

8-) Before they get ambushed by Hotah, Darkstar tells Arianne that the lion isn´t easily provocated, and that the best way to start a war is with a sword.

9-) When they are ambushed by Hotah, Darkstar tells Ser Arys to stand down, because they are greatly outnumbered. Arys charges on anyway.

10-) Darkstar *supposedly* tries to kill Myrcella, but Arianne never actually sees it, she learns it later from Doran.

11-) Hotah´s enigmatic last words: "Someone told. Someone always tells."

Questions:

1-) Why does it bother him to be on his cousin Arthur´s shadow? What does he plan to do about it?

2-) I could be wrong, but from what little we´ve seen of him, he seems to be a man motivated mainly by vengence?

3-) Why did he order Ser Arys to stand down against Hotah?

4-) Did he really try to kill Mycella? Could a seasoned killer like him fail to kill an 8 year old girl?

5-) How did he end up on Arianne´s entourage?

6-) The fact that he was "wet-nursed" on venoms of all sorts, could he have been Oberyn´s protegé? Oberyn was obviously the most dangerous man in Dorne(and probably in all Westeroos), so with his demise it might makes sense that his student is now the most dangerous man in Dorne.

[NichealBluth]

Even if Aegon is Blackfyre, Varys and Illyrio don't have to reveal it. Power is where men believe it is. Plus Blackfyres probably don't call themselves Blackfyres, they think of themselves as the true Targaryens.

If he is a Blackfyre, I doubt Varys/Illyrio will even reveal it. They would basically be ruining their alliance with Daenerys. Blackfyre rebellions sounded a lot worse than Robert's rebellion (Even though they failed), so they must be an even bigger enemy than the usurper. Of course something may go wrong with their plan if Dany, slayer of lies, suspects Aegon of being the mummer's dragon. We may never even know if he's the real deal or not.

[Daemon Dagoghlor]

I think everyone is reading WAY too much into the supposed clues that GRRM gives up. Aegon was saved by Varys, a mummer, thus making him a mummer's dragon.

Personally, i think it'd be awesome if Aegon did turn out to be a Blackfyre, the descendant of the true king Daemon I Targaryen.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I think Darkstar is probably too old to be Aegon or Brandon and Ashara's bastard. Mainly because Arianne seems to view him as a contemporary, someone her age or maybe even older. She's 23.

[danm_999]

I think everyone is reading WAY too much into the supposed clues that GRRM gives up. Aegon was saved by Varys, a mummer, thus making him a mummer's dragon.

And I personally think the "mummer's dragon" as a possessive (that Aegon is Varys') is deeply flawed. After all, how accurate is it to describe Varys as a mummer, and how accurate is it to describe Aegon as solely/mostly Varys'?

Remember, Varys isn't a mummer. He was apprenticed to mummers, but was sold and cut before he became a mummer. He uses mummer's tricks, sure, but he uses half a dozen disciplines to run his spy network, and is shown to be quite the renaissance man. Honestly it'd be more accurate to describe Varys as the eunuch, the spider or the spymaster, the whisper than the mummer.

Secondly, Aegon appears to be Illyrio's as much as, if not more than, Varys'. He grew up with Illyrio, Illyrio feels close to the boy, and there's no evidence Varys has actually ever met Aegon post-sack (he can't have honestly, Aegon's been in Essos and Varys in King's Landing since the sack). Compounding this Aegon-Varys connection problem, remember the advice from Quaithe is being given to Daenerys, who has actually met Illyrio, but never Varys. So the phrase "cheesemonger's dragon" or something of the like, would go a hell of a lot further in helping her to identify Aegon.

The possessive argument has to do a hell of a lot of backflips to make itself work, while the descriptive argument, that mummer means Aegon is a fake, is fairly plain; Aegon is as fake as Xaro Xoan Daxos tears.

[Saci Targaryen]

And I personally think the "mummer's dragon" as a possessive (that Aegon is Varys') is deeply flawed. After all, how accurate is it to describe Varys as a mummer, and how accurate is it to describe Aegon as solely/mostly Varys'?

Varys was a mummer as a child.Though nothing that Varys says can be completely trusted, he claims to have been born a slave in Lys that was sold and apprenticed to a traveling folly, a troupe of mummers who worked the Free Cities, Oldtown, and occasionally King's Landing, by means of a fat little cog owned by the troupe's master. During their stay in Myr, a man offered a large sum of money for Varys, an offer his master found too tempting to refuse. The man gave Varys a potion that made him powerless to move or speak, but did nothing to dull his senses as his manhood was cut off at the stem, then burnt in a brazier in a Blood Magic ritual. Varys claims to have held a hatred for all things magical ever since.^[2]

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Aaaand I think "mummer's dragon" works in both of its interpretations: Aegon is a fake Targaryen who is also in the "possession" of Varys.

[Jem]

Aegon is a "dragon" in the possession of Varys, a mummer.

And what sort of dragons do mummer possess? Fake ones.

[danm_999]

Varys was a mummer as a child.Though nothing that Varys says can be completely trusted, he claims to have been born a slave in Lys that was sold and apprenticed to a traveling folly, a troupe of mummers who worked the Free Cities, Oldtown, and occasionally King's Landing, by means of a fat little cog owned by the troupe's master. During their stay in Myr, a man offered a large sum of money for Varys, an offer his master found too tempting to refuse. The man gave Varys a potion that made him powerless to move or speak, but did nothing to dull his senses as his manhood was cut off at the stem, then burnt in a brazier in a Blood Magic ritual. Varys claims to have held a hatred for all things magical ever since.^[2]

Yeah, I'm aware he was attached to a mummer's troupe, I just don't think that makes it 100% clear he should be called a mummer and mummer alone, or that Aegon is his. Here's how he describes his time:

“I was an orphan boy apprenticed to a traveling folly.

Possible, certainly, but not necessarily clear.

[danm_999]

Aaaand I think "mummer's dragon" works in both of its interpretations: Aegon is a fake Targaryen who is also in the "possession" of Varys.

I think this explanation is the correct one, since it explains the obliqueness of simply describing Varys as a mummer.

[Saci Targaryen]

Aaaand I think "mummer's dragon" works in both of its interpretations: Aegon is a fake Targaryen who is also in the "possession" of Varys.

This. Its a really dodgy prophecy.

[danm_999]

This. Its a really dodgy prophecy.

Given by someone who doesn't show their face, which is always kind of a red flag.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Given by someone who doesn't show their face, which is always kind of a red flag.

To sort-of quote Arthur Weasley: "Never trust something if you can't see where it keeps its brain."

[y ddraig]

On the other hand it is difficult to believe that we are introduced to a guy named Aegon only to find out that he is fake later.

Really? I find it harder to believe that we follow Dany, the supposedly last Targaryen, and Jon, the secret son of Rhaegar, from the very beginning, only to be told that -tada! - Aegon is still alive in book 5.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Really? I find it harder to believe that we follow Dany, the supposedly last Targaryen, and Jon, the secret son of Rhaegar, from the very beginning, only to be told that -tada! - Aegon is still alive in book 5.

I tend to agree. I also think that we'll never KNOW for SURE whether Aegon is real or not. No one will stand up and say, "The kid's a fake." I think we have the tools and information necessary to figure it out (namely, he is fake), and that's all we'll have to work with.