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The sphynx is the riddle, not the riddler!


FittleLinger

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Not quite on topic, but I don't see why Maester Aemon connected sphinxes with riddles. A sphinx is a non-existent creature, as are dragons and griffins, but its only connection with riddles surely is in one specific Greek myth, the Oedipus one. There are no other actual myths/legends from our reality in ASOIAF, are there? How did this one get through?

"Pedant" is my middle name.

Technically you're right but I don't think he would say "the sphynx is X, not Y" if it wasn't considered Y in the first place. That's in Westeros I mean. Combined with the real-world interpretation and the myth of the sphynx, it's safe for me to assume that it's connected with riddles in Westeros too.

OK, the sphynx is Dany IMO as I have stated. But if we assume it could mean the three heads of the dragon, then what was considered riddler? I mean, OK, the riddle is who the three heads are, but before realizing that, what was the metaphor he had in mind when considering the sphynx a riddler, and then realizing he was not right?

At least that's how I read it along his thoughts - "I thought the sphynx was the riddler - I was wrong - it's the riddle." So what did he think first?

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I don't have AFFC nearby, but didn't Aemon tell Sam that in the midst of his other musings, which included "the dragon has three heads".

One thought I had was what makes up a sphinx. A quick look up of information basically reveals that at minimum it consists of a hybrid of two things, but can be more. Often the body of a lion with the head of a man. One traditional sphinx of note was the body of a lion, the head of a woman and the wings of a great bird.

Combining the ideas, could the sphinx and more specifically, what makes up the sphinx, be the answer to the riddle "the dragon has three heads" which most assume to be the answer to the question of who will be the dragon riders...

The head of a woman = Danaerys

Body of a lion = Tyrion

Wings = ?

Of course, there was no description of a third animal on the sphinx Tyrion saw. Anyway, just a thought.

The head of a woman = Danaerys

Body of a lion = Tyrion

Wings = Jon Snow?

I support the idea that Jon is Rhaegar's son and Tyrion is Aerys' bastard. I also think that Dany will revert the dynamic of Aegon the conqueror. A woman and two men will rule\save\protect Westeros. Another possibility is Aegon, who is also known as the Young Griff. The wings could belong to him, but I like to believe that he is fake.

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I believe at one point the sphinx is described as "a mix of many creatures, all joined together" (serious paraphrasing there). Who's been more mixed about than Dany? She's a Westorisi, who lived in Braavos, then Pentos, then married a Dothraki and attacked a Lhazareen village (or her husband did anyway) then went to Quarth, then attacked the slave cities, and now rules Mereen. Every time she's been in most of these various places she's adapted their culture and learnt from it. She is a very mixed woman.

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I had this posted on another thread, but it never got any feedback, so I'm posting a new one.

My theory regarding the sphynx:

Daenerys is the sphynx!

Evidence: When he mentions it, he's talking about Dany - she should be sent a maester to council her, etc. That's the least compelling evidence.

Then, we get "a glass candle that could not be lit; eggs that would not hatch; the sphinx was the riddle, not the riddler" Now, we know Dany somehow managed to hatch her eggs, and then the candles were lit (as a result) - Xaro in Qarth tells her that the candle in some Nightwalker-named guy was lit for the first time for many years. The riddle itself - we know from GRRM himself that Dany's pyre and the hatching of the dragons was a one-time magical event, a miracle. Maybe the riddle is how did this happen, and why Dany?

Now, let's look at a summary of a Tyrion chapter in ADWD:

While travelling Tyrion and Illyrio Mopatis come across a huge Valyrian sphinx crouched beside the road. It has a dragon’s body and a woman’s face. However her king is missing, dragged off by the Dothraki back to Vaes Dothrak on wooden wheels. There is a smooth stone plinth where he once stood, grown over with moss and flowering vines. Tyrionconsiders the queen sphinx and pleasant omen and her missing king an omen too, but not as hopeful.

Valyrian sphynx with dragon body and a woman's head, without her husband, who's been taken to Vaes Dothrak? Ring any bells? The sphynx is clearly Dany. Sarella was a red herring who we see immediately after Sam appears. I'm not saying she is not important, I am saying she was not the sphynx Aemon is talking about.

The riddle itself is more open to interpretation. It could be how and why Dany hatched the dragons and lit the candles, it could be something else. Also, why she would be considered riddler before finding out she's the riddle, is also beyond me.

Let's discuss this, please.

PS: Feel free to tell me if it is painfully obvious, or if there is something wrong with it.

I woudlnt dismiss Sarella as a red herring so easily. Now I absolutely agree, Dany makes sense, and is most likely the spynx. Sarella, aside from being called the sphynx though is also a "Sand snake" or a serpent. A dragon is also a serpent. Now, what I'm saying here is I'm sure she has some important role to play in these regards, but that yes, Dany is probably the primary focus.

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I don't have AFFC nearby, but didn't Aemon tell Sam that in the midst of his other musings, which included "the dragon has three heads".

One thought I had was what makes up a sphinx. A quick look up of information basically reveals that at minimum it consists of a hybrid of two things, but can be more. Often the body of a lion with the head of a man. One traditional sphinx of note was the body of a lion, the head of a woman and the wings of a great bird.

Combining the ideas, could the sphinx and more specifically, what makes up the sphinx, be the answer to the riddle "the dragon has three heads" which most assume to be the answer to the question of who will be the dragon riders...

The head of a woman = Danaerys

Body of a lion = Tyrion

Wings = ?

Of course, there was no description of a third animal on the sphinx Tyrion saw. Anyway, just a thought.

well, Arryn - Falcon, if Sansa winds up marrying Harry the Heir, and then disposing of LF...hmmmmm

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well, Arryn - Falcon, if Sansa winds up marrying Harry the Heir, and then disposing of LF...hmmmmm

No, Petyr will sit on the Iron Throne at some point, it is known!

In all seriousness though, if we are really searching for parts to complete a sphynx, I'd say the wings are either Dany - dragons, Bran - he would fly/3EC connection, or John, being the leader crow.

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You all seem to forget that in Feast for Crows Lazy Leo describes the sphinx as: a human face, the body of a lion, the wings of a hawk. A Hawk, not a raven, not a dragon, not even a bat, a hawk.

Sansa would be the only one to fit the description, if she really marries Harry the Heir: face-herself; body-Tyrion; wings-Harry.

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Technically you're right but I don't think he would say "the sphynx is X, not Y" if it wasn't considered Y in the first place. That's in Westeros I mean. Combined with the real-world interpretation and the myth of the sphynx, it's safe for me to assume that it's connected with riddles in Westeros too.

OK, the sphynx is Dany IMO as I have stated. But if we assume it could mean the three heads of the dragon, then what was considered riddler? I mean, OK, the riddle is who the three heads are, but before realizing that, what was the metaphor he had in mind when considering the sphynx a riddler, and then realizing he was not right?

At least that's how I read it along his thoughts - "I thought the sphynx was the riddler - I was wrong - it's the riddle." So what did he think first?

Why would he refer to the sphinx as an "it" if it was a person in the first place. I dont think alleras or sarella or dany are what he is speaking of here. A sphynx is an entity of its own and since it has no gender of its own it seems fair to refer to an actual sphynx as an "it", but not a person. I still think we have not been given enough information on this one but it may have something to do with why the sphynx looks the way it does and what it represents or something like that.

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I'm not sure if the riddle posed by the sphinx has anything to do with the 3 heads of the dragon. It's true that the sphinxes guarding the Citadel gates have three parts to them, lion, hawk and serpent. But the only visual reference to a Valyrian sphinx, of which would relate more to the Targaryen/Valyrian prophecy of the PTWP, is in one of Tyrion's chapters where he describes it as having the body of a dragon.

Other Valyrian sphinxes mentioned are not described in detail. Such as the pair of Valyrian sphinxes in the throne room at King's Landing and the Valyrina sphinxes that Euron brings to the Kings Moot.

Due to the fact that Maester Aemon was a Maester and a Targaryen, he may be referring to the sphinxes at the Citadel or the Valyrian sphinxes. If it's the Valyrian sphinx, the riddle may be just the male/female thing.

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Why do you think of the sphinx as dual gender? In fact, the only Valyrian sphinx had a female and a male... There's nothing that suggests that sphinxes have both genders as seems to be the case with dragons...

(also it's not lion, hawk, serpent, but lion, hawk, human)

Sam - "The gates of the Citadel were flanked by a pair of towering green sphinxes with the bodies of lions, the wings of eagles, and the tails of serpants. One had a man's face, and one a woman's."

I think that during the voyage Aemon realizes the connection to the sphinx, due to the male and female dragon duality and the faces on the sphinxes at the Citadel. Throughout the story the sphinxes always seem to come in pairs. I think the riddle is the 3 parts of the sphinx. He already exclaimed that the thing he got wrong was that the prince that was promised could be a princess, so I think the fact that the sphinxes at the citadel have male and female faces made him realise the significance of the sphinx and then led him to think that the sphinxes themselves could be the answer to the riddle of the 3 heads of the dragon. Whether or not they represent individuals or Houses who knows?

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