Winter's Knight Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I'm skeptical those incidents can be explained by skinchanging.It is similar to how the Starks began with their direwolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I was re-reading Bran's chapter in ACoK where Summer begins to attack Jojen and Meera, and I was strangely reminded of Daenerys when Jojen told Bran that Summer feels Bran's emotions. I don't think Dany is a "skinchanger", but I think she's got an unexplainable bond with her dragons that is similar to the Starks with their direwolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Billy Tipton Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 GRRM has no poker face he's very easy to read (no pun intended). When asked this question, on a video I found on YouTube, he gave a slight chuckle and said something like " we shall see." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 It is similar to how the Starks began with their direwolves.Not really, since the Starks began by having wolf dreams, dreams in which they literally saw through their direwolves, and experienced their direwolves thoughts and emotions. The only time Daenerys dreamt she was a dragon was before she hatched her eggs.I honestly think Daenerys bond with her dragons is mundane, albeit strong. Kind of like how dogs can sense their owner's emotions to an extent, and act accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Not really, since the Starks began by having wolf dreams, dreams in which they literally saw through their direwolves, and experienced their direwolves thoughts and emotions. The only time Daenerys dreamt she was a dragon was before she hatched her eggs.I honestly think Daenerys bond with her dragons is mundane, albeit strong.The Starks began with the wolves responding to their emotions and possible dangers around them. Wolf dreams came later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 The Starks began with the wolves responding to their emotions and possible dangers around them. Wolf dreams came later.Actually, Bran describes Summer as fairly uncooperative until his fall; he won't play chasing sticks with Bran for example before his ill fated climb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Actually, Bran describes Summer as fairly uncooperative until his fall; he won't play chasing sticks with Bran for example before his ill fated climb.I didn't say they were obedient? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I didn't say they were obedient?I'm hesistant to call an animal responding to a human the precursor to skinchanging because it's not unusual, even in our world, for a pet to respond to a master's emotions or body language.What's utterly supernatural is that the Starks go the other way, from very early on, and began feeling their direwolves emotions and thoughts, completely by accident. Daenerys has not manifested this talent despite being with her dragons for a comparable amount of time; not even in dreams. I don't believe she's a skinchanger, because this talent would have manifested itself in some form accidentally by this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Loudmouth Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I see a lot of people around here discuss wether Bran can warg dragons. But does anyone else think that it will be Sansa who will warg a dragon? GRRM has allready confirmed that all Stark children have this gift, and yet Sansa has not yet used it for anything. Is it possible that he killed off Lady so that Sansa can "save herself" for another, more powerfull creature?After book 4 it is obvious that she is a more important character than she seemed to be in the first book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I'm hesistant to call an animal responding to a human the precursor to skinchanging because it's not unusual, even in our world, for a pet to respond to a master's emotions or body language.What's utterly supernatural is that the Starks go the other way, from very early on, and began feeling their direwolves emotions and thoughts, completely by accident. Daenerys has not manifested this talent despite being with her dragons for a comparable amount of time; not even in dreams. I don't believe she's a skinchanger, because this talent would have manifested itself in some form accidentally by this point.Actually... Daenerys becomes depressed in ADWD after chaining her dragons, and part of her is 'chained' as a result of this. But her most violent, unpredictable side is left free, symbolised by Drogon still being free to hunt. She has a dragon's temper -- literally. And it's quite clear that her dragons feel her emotions too, hence why Drogon appeared at Daznak's Pit just as Hizdahr "woke the dragon" inside Daenerys. Additionally, when Drogon is stabbed, "Drogon and Dany screamed as one". She can also hear Viserion and Rhaegal scratching at the base of the pyramid.Like I said, I don't think she's a skinchanger, but I do think there's a connection there that reminds me of the Starks and their wolves.ETA: No, Sansa will not warg a dragon. Only a greenseer would be powerful enough to warg such a strong creature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barty Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I see a lot of people around here discuss wether Bran can warg dragons. But does anyone else think that it will be Sansa who will warg a dragon? GRRM has allready confirmed that all Stark children have this gift, and yet Sansa has not yet used it for anything. Is it possible that he killed off Lady so that Sansa can "save herself" for another, more powerfull creature?After book 4 it is obvious that she is a more important character than she seemed to be in the first book.Sansa will be the littlefinger of the Stark family - she wont need a dragon unless its a golden one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Actually... Daenerys becomes depressed in ADWD after chaining her dragons, and part of her is 'chained' as a result of this. But her most violent, unpredictable side is left free, symbolised by Drogon still being free to hunt. She has a dragon's temper -- literally. And it's quite clear that her dragons feel her emotions too, hence why Drogon appeared at Daznak's Pit just as Hizdahr "woke the dragon" inside Daenerys. Additionally, when Drogon is stabbed, "Drogon and Dany screamed as one". She can also hear Viserion and Rhaegal scratching at the base of the pyramid.Like I said, I don't think she's a skinchanger yet, but I do think there's a connection there that reminds me of the Starks and their wolves.Fixed. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Visenya Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 It's an interesting debate but I'm willing to just wait for the next 2 books to find out one way or the other now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barty Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 If Danny can warg the dragons - that probably means that Bran could warg her dragons as well(He is one of the strongest skinchangers in the world). And the only reason Danny hasn't deeply bonded with her dragons is because she hasn't chosen one yet, she can only bond with or warg one dragon - she has been trying to control all three dragons at the same time, which we know is wrong since even Aegon the conqueror couldn't control his sister's dragons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I think I can explain all this with the mundane.Actually... Daenerys becomes depressed in ADWD after chaining her dragons, and part of her is 'chained' as a result of this.Yeah, I don't actually think this is because of some supernatural bond, but rather because she loves her dragons and doesn't like to see them chained and bound in a pit.But her most violent, unpredictable side is left free, symbolised by Drogon still being free to hunt.Here's the issue though, Drogon is hunting free before Daenerys has to make the political sacrifice to try and chain him. His actions are consistently independent of her influence.And it's quite clear that her dragons feel her emotions too, hence why Drogon appeared at Daznak's Pit just as Hizdahr "woke the dragon" inside Daenerys.Or Drogon was attracted to the noise and crowd. Remember, when he arrives he kills a boar, he doesn't show interest in Daenerys until she starts whipping him.Additionally, when Drogon is stabbed, "Drogon and Dany screamed as one".They scream at the same time, because she loves her dragons.She can also hear Viserion and Rhaegal scratching at the base of the pyramid.She thinks she can hear this. It turns out to be true for Viserion, but not Rhaegal.Like I said, I don't think she's a skinchanger, but I do think there's a connection there that reminds me of the Starks and their wolves.I don't think there's any supernatural element in play here; Daenerys loves her dragons and they're imprinted to her, but to compare it to the Stark wolf bond is problematic, because she never senses the dragons presence (Drogon at Daznak's Pit takes her by surprise) nor has "Dragon dreams" like the Starks have wolf dreams, nor ever experiences her dragons emotions or thoughts.I honestly think building a supernatural or magical bond between dragons and humans is weak, because they're creatures that are expected to bond to several riders in their very long lives. The magic that's fuelling the Daenerys' dragons seems completely sequestered from the magic that First Men blood seems to be activating in wargs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJDTrismegistus Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 If Bran does "skinchange" into a dragon, which one will he take? Rhaegal, Viserion, Drogon.....or maybe the "Dragon of Winterfell"......if it exists of course ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I don't think there's any supernatural element in play here; Daenerys loves her dragons and they're imprinted to her, but to compare it to the Stark wolf bond is problematic, because she never senses the dragons presence (Drogon at Daznak's Pit takes her by surprise) nor has "Dragon dreams" like the Starks have wolf dreams, nor ever experiences her dragons emotions or thoughts.But Daenerys DOES sense their presence. Do you truly think it's a coincidence that her anger peaked in Daznak's Pit just as Drogon was about to show up? This is a fantasy series, and Daenerys is the mother of dragons. Her connection to them is not just "oh she loves them" -- she's their substitute mother. She woke dragons from fossilized dragon eggs. They came to life because of her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_k Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Daenerys might have some sort of connection with her dragon but IMO they are not close enough to be compared with warging. We never get any indication about how dragon feel through Dany. Whereas the Starks always feel their wolf and able to use their power. Like Jon getting smell through Ghost. Arya getting vision through a cat and Arya's wolf actually brought back cat's body from water and protected it from untill BwB found it. So i guess Dany- dragon bond is not that strong.edit: As for "Drogon and Dany screamed as one" there need not be any special bondage between Dany and Drogon. If someone stab my dog in front of me i would scream as well only difference will be i will be screaming in anger and the dog will be screaming with pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJDTrismegistus Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 After Arstan Whitebeard reveals himself as Ser Barristan Selmy and exposes Ser Jorah Mormont, the dragons sense Danny's fury and react in the same way the direwolves do when the Starks show anger. Whether this is a warging effect is sketchy but there is a definate "bond" between the dragons and Danny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third World King Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Daenerys does have a magical bond with her dragons; she can feel their emotions just as the dragons also feel hers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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