Jon Snow is Azor Ahai (the text proofs)

[Eddward Stark]

If there is no Nissa Nissa, then where is the Lightbringer supposed to come from?

First, the exact details of the legend of Lightbringer may not be accurate, as many legends become tall tales after thousands of years. Just like Old Nan's stories, there is probably some truth to the story, but it may not all be true. Nissa Nissa's sacrifice may have been symbolic for all we know.

Second, even if Nissa Nissa's sacrifice was necessary to forge the old Lightbringer, I still don't see why that is a necessary case for the new one.

[Dany4eva]

I kinda have theory that Jon and Dany are both AA but they will be more powerful when they are together. (bulletproof monk style)

And I alway thought born between salt and smoke refers to the fact that Jon is put in the NW stores.

And this theory would fit nicely if oathkeeper and widows wail were lightbringer split up. Dany and jon wield the swords. Tho I can't imagine dany wielding a sword

[Cruella]

I thought GRRM saying they (TPTWP and AAR) are one and the same was a lie by poster here, who later admitted to it...

[Dany4eva]

Nissa Nissa would fit nicely for Jon Snow. :agree:

This would make more sense than dany being his nissa nissa because he is her last relative alive(assuming faegon) and thus it actually is a sacrifice killing him whereas dany is just another relative to jon, he got other family. Saying this, I don't believe lightbringer will need to be tempered again. Also I believe lightbringer is a sword that AA will probably come across later

[Ariane Martell]

And this theory would fit nicely if oathkeeper and widows wail were lightbringer split up. Dany and jon wield the swords. Tho I can't imagine dany wielding a sword

If it's Dany AA, I think her "lightbringer" is Drogon, and her Nissa Nissa are Drogo and her son

[Faceless Bran]

How will Jon be able to wield a burning sword? Hasn't his sword-hand already been burned by fire?

Yes he burned his hand, i ackonwledged that, even stressed that GRRM specifically made a point of it. But that was before he was stabbed and may be reborn as a Targ, then he'll be Jon the Stark no more and will have his power......just a theory.

Also Eddwad stark, i know not all Targs are fireproof as vis' amusing death proved but true dragons like Dany and Aegon the conq have that valeryian magic which im guessing could be dormont inside Jon......be hey who knows.

[Dany4eva]

If it's Dany AA, I think her "lightbringer" is Drogon, and her Nissa Nissa are Drogo and her son

It is possible. I would be somewhat disappointed if lighbringer is not a sword.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Maybe Lightbringer is NW? They bring the light that protects the Realm from the Others.

[Ariane Martell]

Martin says they are.

I think Dany turns out to be AA/PtwP while Jon plays Last Hero. Or Nissa Nissa-I'm not picky. :devil:

I like the idea. Jon fits better as a hero than a prince. But I don't see how he could be Nissa-Nissa. Ok Dany would have to sacrifice her last family, but she hasn't any bond with him. They weren't raised together, they don't think alike, they have no bond whatsoever. If any relative would be Dany's Nissa Nissa it would be Viserys, but, well, he wasn't. And if Martin dare to make them a couple I'll throw up a river.

[Ariane Martell]

It is possible. I would be somewhat disappointed if lighbringer is not a sword.

Yes, but in Dany's case I don't see she using a sword. Arya maybe. But not Dany. If AA is Jon I imagine if his death was Nissa Nissa, Ghost would be his Nissa Nissa, or if Ygritter was NOOOOO

[kissdbyfire]

It seems GRRM is leading us toward 3 different possibilities for AA. Dany (most evidence) Stannis (some evidence) Jon (some evidence). Is he tricking us? We will find out eventually. Then there is the question is AA and TPTWP the same person? Probably not. Best guess, 50%, Dany is AA and Jon is TPTWP. Mr. Martin sure stirs the pot well and he keeps us on our toes and he may completely shock us all.

I'm not even sure AA was a person, and much less certain still about AAR.

[Serie]

I thought GRRM saying they (TPTWP and AAR) are one and the same was a lie by poster here, who later admitted to it...

true. The author never confirmed that tPTWP and Azor Ahai reborn refer to the same person.

More info here: http://www.westeros....CA_July_20_232/

[Third World King]

No, the point is actually that we have no evidence that she ever saw Stannis when explicitly asking to see AA.

Are you saying Melisandre first prayed to see a glimpse of Azor Ahai at the wall? How did Melisandre come to believe that Stannis was AA?

"He is not dead. Stannis is the Lord's chosen, destined to lead the fight against the dark. I have seen it in the flames, read of it in ancient prophecy."- Melisandre

"The red priestess closed her eyes and said a prayer, then opened them once more to face the hearthfire. One more time. She had to be certain."- Melisandre

These statements from Melisandre seems to suggest that the red-witch saw images of her king, Stannis, when she asked for a vision of AA.

The other point is that the word see can have different meanings. When a fortune teller 'sees' something in flames/tea leaves, etc., it doesn't always mean literally; it can mean figuratively (hence my joke, 'See what I mean?').

She saw AA reborn in her flames. She probably saw other details we do not know about, such as that she had a future in Westeros. She even admits in the text that she chose Dragonstone because its name fits the prophesy of dragons being awoken from stone. It just so happens that Stannis was in command of Dragonstone at the time, so he was chosen by default. The prophesy was then made to fit around him (e.g. she magicked a new Lightbringer for him).

Can you please provide the direct quote that states what you claim in the bold part?

Yes, Melisandre definitely wanted news on Stannis. She asked to see him in her flames. I don't see how this is supporting your argument though. Unless you are just pointing out that she believed him to be AA, which we already know to be true.

I was just pointing your error in your previous post when you claimed that Melisandre asked to see Azor Ahai (and not Stannis) but was shown Jon Snow. She asked to be shown Stannis (who she believes is AA), but saw Jon Snow among others.

[kissdbyfire]

Yes, but in Dany's case I don't see she using a sword. Arya maybe. But not Dany. If AA is Jon I imagine if his death was Nissa Nissa, Ghost would be his Nissa Nissa, or if Ygritter was NOOOOO

Jon is Ghost, and Ghost is Jon. Therefore killing Ghost would be a form of suicide, not a sacrifice. At any rate I very much doubt any of it is as literal as people are making it out to be.

[kissdbyfire]

I thought GRRM saying they (TPTWP and AAR) are one and the same was a lie by poster here, who later admitted to it...

I'm not sure about this. I the interview he says that Mel is looking for this figure. It's not like GRRM was asked whether AAR and PtWP are one and the same, and that he replied, 'yeah, they're the same person'. Could be, but maybe it isn't.

[Ariane Martell]

Jon is Ghost, and Ghost is Jon. Therefore killing Ghost would be a form of suicide, not a sacrifice. At any rate I very much doubt any of it is as literal as people are making it out to be.

Yes but they killed Lady and Sansa is ok. I think Nissa Nissa has to be the most important thing for AA, and Ghost is the most important thing to Jon. Yes, it would be kinda of suicidal, but it would have to be made. It's like when Batman have to let Rachel dies. If it's not people what do yu think it would be? Or do you think there's no Nissa Nisa?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Yes but they killed Lady and Sansa is ok. I think Nissa Nissa has to be the most important thing for AA, and Ghost is the most important thing to Jon. Yes, it would be kinda of suicidal, but it would have to be made. It's like when Batman have to let Rachel dies. If it's not people what do yu think it would be? Or do you think there's no Nissa Nisa?

Is she? I think she has lost a part of her. Not in a bad way, but something is missing...

Sansa hadn't the chance to create a special bond (skinchaging) with Lady.

[Ariane Martell]

Is she? I think she has lost a part of her. Not in a bad way, but something is missing...

Sansa hadn't the chance to create a special bond (skinchaging) with Lady.

Yes she seems to have lost a part of her, but when I said she was ok I meant she's alive ok. The other user said that killing Ghost would be like suicidal, I was trying to say that wouldn't be exactly like it. She hadn't the time to become a warg but there was a strong bond, like Dany have with her dragons in the first book and the begging of the second. Poor Sansa, I think if a had a direwolf and someone killed it I would hunt the motherfucker down.

[Third World King]

First, the exact details of the legend of Lightbringer may not be accurate, as many legends become tall tales after thousands of years. Just like Old Nan's stories, there is probably some truth to the story, but it may not all be true. Nissa Nissa's sacrifice may have been symbolic for all we know.

Second, even if Nissa Nissa's sacrifice was necessary to forge the old Lightbringer, I still don't see why that is a necessary case for the new one.

Symbolic?

Does it mean that the dragon part of the prophecy was symbolic too?

Does it mean the sword part is symbolic too?

[Serie]

Yes she seems to have lost a part of her, but when I said she was ok I meant she's alive ok. The other user said that killing Ghost would be like suicidal, I was trying to say that wouldn't be exactly like it. She hadn't the time to become a warg but there was a strong bond, like Dany have with her dragons in the first book and the begging of the second. Poor Sansa, I think if a had a direwolf and someone killed it I would hunt the motherfucker down.

I think you said something really important there.... (the phrase in bold). It was almost ok because Sansa had never warged Lady. Do you remember how Varamyr Sixskins felt when the eagle he warged was on fire? and he had five skins left.....