Jon Snow is Azor Ahai (the text proofs)

[Sneak]

I agree that Dany is AAR:

When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone.

Dany has done all this, as mentioned above.

Also, in the HotU, one of the visions is:

Glowing like the sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow....mother of dragons, slayer of lies.

Why would Dany be the one to slay the lie that Stannis is AAR if she herself is not AAR instead?

[lunadangelo]

The 3 dragon notion makes sense, I just can't see Jon working together with Mellisandre. In my view she is not only very bad at reading the fire, she is also evil, using her sorcery to (help Stannis) kill his own brother and Ser Cornay Penrose.

Not the kind of person, I believe Jon would make common cause with.

PS: Whilst I know that I should probably find another thread for this, I have a question and would be grateful if somebody could answer it. Namely, why does Stannis not use Mellisandre to kill Roose Bolton and his wicked offspring?

[danm_999]

Glowing like the sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow....mother of dragons, slayer of lies.

Why would Dany be the one to slay the lie that Stannis is AAR if she herself is not AAR instead?

You're missing a very critical sentence or two in there;

Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire. . . . mother of dragons, slayer of lies . . .

The lie that she slays may be the "cloth dragon" which people have interpreted as Aegon.

[Sneak]

You're missing a very critical sentence or two in there;

The lie that she slays may be the "cloth dragon" which people have interpreted as Aegon.

I left them out intentionally because I didn't think they were relevent to the AAR prophecy. The visions from the HotU were presented in threes, eg her silver trotting through a stream, a corpse at the prow of a ship and a blue flower on a wall of ice, and then mother of dragons, bride of fire at the end. This means she will be a bride 3 times IMO. So the 3 visions before the slayer of lies means she will slay all 3 of the lies in the visions.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Why would Dany be the one to slay the lie that Stannis is AAR if she herself is not AAR instead?

Why would Dany has done all the other stuff? Because of the Targ Madness.

Also after drinking shade of the evening she can't be quite clear and right.

[turinturambar1]

What the dragons have to do with Azor Ahai?

:agree:

[Third World King]

The 3 dragon notion makes sense, I just can't see Jon working together with Mellisandre. In my view she is not only very bad at reading the fire, she is also evil, using her sorcery to (help Stannis) kill his own brother and Ser Cornay Penrose.

Not the kind of person, I believe Jon would make common cause with.

PS: Whilst I know that I should probably find another thread for this, I have a question and would be grateful if somebody could answer it. Namely, why does Stannis not use Mellisandre to kill Roose Bolton and his wicked offspring?

He can't. It would be the death of him, if he attempts making another shadow- that sorcery takes part of Stannis life-force/soul as payment. Besides Winterfell, like Storm's End, has spells woven into its walls to prevent magic going through, but unlike Storm's End, there is no way of going underneath the castle.

[Sneak]

Why would Dany has done all the other stuff? Because of the Targ Madness.

Do you think Dany's mad? I admit she could slay him for another reason, such as him being a rival to the iron throne, but given the other evidence pointing toward Dany being AAR (IMO) I don't think so.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Do you think Dany's mad? I admit she could slay him for another reason, such as him being a rival to the iron throne, but given the other evidence pointing toward Dany being AAR (IMO) I don't think so.

Yes. 160 (ish) dead Great Masters aren't a sane's people action.

[Sneak]

Yes. 160 (ish) dead Great Masters aren't a sane's people action.

Fair enough. But what about all the children they killed? Does that make them insane as well?

ETA: sorry for going off topic.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Fair enough. But what about all the children they killed? Does that make them insane as well?

ETA: sorry for going off topic.

Off topic is almost the 99.5% of all the posts in this thread. The thread was about passages in the books which prove that Jon is AAR, not who is AA in someone's opinion :dunno:

The children they had killed don't make Dany less mad. Her action wasn't better than theirs.

[Fragon]

Don't forget to add that Ser Patrek was the 'bleeding star' during Jon's stabbing.

[The Unburnt Hound]

Maybe Mel kept seeing Stannis because Stannis was essential in getting her to the wall to the true AA...Jon Snow

[Third World King]

Maybe Mel kept seeing Stannis because Stannis was essential in getting her to the wall to the true AA...Jon Snow

Maybe Mel keeps seeing Jon Snow because he is essential in getting her to the true AA...Daenerys Targaryen. :cheers:

[The Unburnt Hound]

Maybe Mel keeps seeing Jon Snow because he is essential in getting her to the true AA...Daenerys Targaryen. :cheers:

Touche

[Darkstar of Dayne]

What the dragons have to do with Azor Ahai?

That is in junction with the notion of Lightbringer of which Danaerys does not have a sword. Her "Lightbringer" is her dragons, they are powerful weapons that give off heat and destroy all enemies. Also, the lifeforce of her love, Drogo, went inside the dragon (perhaps Drogon) and now it is her weapon.

She cannot, though, ride Viserion or Rhaegal. Someone else must do this duty, and that is why I believe Jon and Victarion will both fulfill this role

[Eddward Stark]

I wouldn't put too much thought into Mel's visions, if I were you. When Melisandre looked into the fires and asked her god to be shown AA, she saw Stannis. Now, she sees Snow. What could that mean? With Melisandre, it could mean a lot of things really...

She is just too incompetent to be taken seriously.

Sorry to butt in. About the bold part, are you referring to when Mel first glimpsed Stannis before she came to Dragonstone? Because in her POV in ADWD she doesn't see him.

We don't know how exactly Mel got into her head that Stannis was AA. For all we know she could have asked her Red God to guide her to AA and he led her to Stannis which in turn led her to Jon. Is pure speculation at this point.

About Mel's visions, the interesting thing about her is that while she might be unreliable her visions do contain some truth in them. Take for example the grey girl running for the wall, It was a true vision. She just misinterpreted to mean what she needed to mean at the moment. The same could be happening with her views about AA.

This is a great point, and I was thinking along the same lines.

I recall that in Mel's POV chapter, she gave a hint of why she chose Stannis. She didn't say that her god told her Stannis was AA; she said that she went to Dragonstone because it was the most probable location for raising dragons from stone and thus fulfilling the prophesy...right? The only time we explicitly are told that she sees an image of AA in her fires, it is Jon Snow whom she sees. What she sees in the fires are open to interpretation, but they seem to always come true, if even in a symbolic way.

[Third World King]

This is a great point, and I was thinking along the same lines.

I recall that in Mel's POV chapter, she gave a hint of why she chose Stannis. She didn't say that her god told her Stannis was AA; she said that she went to Dragonstone because it was the most probable location for raising dragons from stone and thus fulfilling the prophesy...right? The only time we explicitly are told that she sees an image of AA in her fires, it is Jon Snow whom she sees. What she sees in the fires are open to interpretation, but they seem to always come true, if even in a symbolic way.

First read this:

Would you know if the king was dead?" Jon asked the red priestess.

"He is not dead. Stannis is the Lord's chosen, destined to lead the fight against the dark. I have seen it in the flames, read of it in ancient prophecy. When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone. Dragon-stone is the place of smoke and salt."

Then read this:

"The red priestess closed her eyes and said a prayer, then opened them once more to face the hearthfire. One more time. She had to be certain. Many a priest and priestess before her had been brought down by false visions, by seeing what they wished to see instead of what the Lord of Light had sent. Stannis was marching south into peril, the king who carried the fate of the world upon his shoulders, Azor Ahai reborn. Surely R'hllor would vouchsafe her a glimpse of what awaited him. Show me Stannis, Lord, she prayed. Show me your king, your instrument."

One more time? She had to be certain? What does that mean exactly? Does it mean she had seen Stannis in her visions, the first time she had prayed to see AA?

[morbiczer]

Until Jon manages to wake dragons from stone, I will stick with Dany. You know, the only person who has actually woken dragons from stone.

[Eddward Stark]

Would you know if the king was dead?" Jon asked the red priestess.

"He is not dead. Stannis is the Lord's chosen, destined to lead the fight against the dark. I have seen it in the flames, read of it in ancient prophecy. When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone. Dragon-stone is the place of smoke and salt."

Read the high-lighted part carefully. Melisandre claims to have seen Stannis as AA in her flames. It says so clearly in the text...

PS. If she has truly seen AA fighting the Others, then she would definitely know that it's not Stannis. But she has only seen Stannis when looking for AA, hence the firm belief that Stannis is indeed AA.

For Mel to figuratively say that she 'saw' something in her flames only means that she interpreted visions in her flames. We've seen this time and time again. Case in point: she 'saw' Jon's sister riding for the Wall in her fires. This is the same way (I believe) that she saw that Stannis was AA.

On the other hand, for her to literally see something, i.e. a vision in response to a very specific question, is completely different, because it is not something that she interpreted and is not subject to the same assumptions. She made a huge assumption here, that turned out to be false.

The word 'see' is confusing, because in our vernacular, it can be used literally and figuratively. See what I mean??

Actually no.

When she searches for AA, she is searching for Stannis.

When she asks to be shown AA (who she believes is Stannis), she is shown Snow. Later, when Jon Snow asks her if she has found Stannis (who she believes is AA), she said she sees only snow.

If you read ADWD chapter 30, it's all there...

"Show me Stannis, Lord, she prayed. Show me your king, your instrument."

a few seconds or minutes later...

"Yet now she could not even seem to find her king. I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R' hllor shows me only Snow."

I must disagree. I think that when we try to understand the meaning of the text, we must realize that GRRM is using the language purposefully. At least in this particular case.

If Mel had said that she was searching for Stannis and she saw Jon Snow, it would be completely different than the actual case, when she asked to be shown AA, and got Jon Snow. She's just so set on Stannis being AA that she is disappointed in being shown images of the wrong person.

Again, I think GRRM's wording here is subtle, but very important. I think he purposely left the one 's' capitalized, and the other not capitalized, to show the very keen reader: AA --> Snow, and Stannis --> snow.