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Third World King

Does Melisandre see Snow or snow?

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Does anyone notice the discrepancy? Does Melisandre mean she saw Snow as in Jon Snow the bastard or snow (ice falling) in her visions?

First she claims to see Snow after asking for a vision of Azor Ahai, but later when talking to Jon Snow, she claims to have seen snow when looking for Stannis (who she believes is AA) in her fires. What does this mean?

Melisandre had practiced her art for years beyond count, and she had paid the price. There was no one, even in her order, who had her skill at seeing the secrets half-revealed and half-concealed within the sacred flames. Yet now she could not even seem to find her king. I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R' hllor shows me only Snow. "Devan," she called, "a drink." Her throat was raw and parched. - ADWD

___________________________________________________________

A wonder you haven' t had the poor man burned. All it would take was a word in the queen's ear, and Patchface would feed her fires. "You see fools in your fire, but no hint of Stannis?"

"When I search for him all I see is snow."

The same useless answer. Clydas had dispatched a raven to Deepwood Motte to warn the king of Arnolf Karstark's treachery, but whether the bird had reached His Grace in time Jon did not know. The Braavosi banker was off in search of Stannis as well, accompanied by the guides that Jon had given him, but between the war and weather, it would be a wonder if he found him. "Would you know if the king was dead?" Jon asked the red priestess.- ADWD

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I think she sees Jon Snow. I don't believe it's a typo. Also, exactly prior to saying that, she sees several visions of Jon Snow.

One way or the other, I don't think it proves anyone is conclusively Azor Ahai. The criteria of pretty much every prophecy in these books seem to be met in at least 3 different circumstances. We'll find out which is right at the end.

edit for clarity.

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It's a discrepancy because it's coming from two seperate POVs.

The capitalised "Snow" comes from Melisandre's POV, where she remarks she not only sees Jon's face, but the fire actually whispers Jon Snow to her.

The non-capitalised "snow" comes from Jon's POV, and is his interpretation of her words; he thinks she's talking about physical snow.

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It's a discrepancy because it's coming from two seperate POVs.

The capitalised "Snow" comes from Melisandre's POV, where she remarks she not only sees Jon's face, but the fire actually whispers Jon Snow to her.

The non-capitalised "snow" comes from Jon's POV, and is his interpretation of her words; he thinks she's talking about physical snow.

This is exactly how I interpreted it. In Melisandre's POV she is referring to Jon Snow simply as "Snow" for short, as evidence by the capitalized S. In Jon's POV Melisandre is also referring to Jon Snow simply as "snow" but since Jon is assuming she is referring to the winter precipitation snow, it is not capitalized in Jon's POV.

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When I first red it. I assumed she was talking about/seeing jon snow. But I trust her hardly

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Martin's play on words about Jon and snow is getting rather cheesy. We get it, he has the name of a weather phenomenon - he's been pulling the same trick for 16 years now!

There are never any hailstorms in ASOIAF, nor mild rains, nor sunny days. It's always Snows and Storms. If bastards in Dorne were named 'Sun' a room full of bastards could work as a weather forecast.

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It's a discrepancy because it's coming from two seperate POVs.

The capitalised "Snow" comes from Melisandre's POV, where she remarks she not only sees Jon's face, but the fire actually whispers Jon Snow to her.

The non-capitalised "snow" comes from Jon's POV, and is his interpretation of her words; he thinks she's talking about physical snow.

Yes, I think this too. Probably the reason

Her throat was raw and parched

because she's starting to doubt about who's truly AA.

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It's clearly referencing Ramsay Snow. I don't know how all of you came up with the idea that it was Jon Snow.

Agreed.

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It's clearly referencing Ramsay Snow. I don't know how all of you came up with the idea that it was Jon Snow.

Just checked the chapter and I don't think there's any evidence for "Snow" referring to Ramsay Snow/Bolton. When asking R'hllor to "Show me your king, your instrument", after a few mixed visions the first faces that appear to Melisandre are that of Blooraven and Bran. Could they be the king and the instrument respectably?

Can't see any evidence of Ramsay in there though. When asked by Devan what she has seen she replies "Much and more" but she acknowledges to us, the reader that she has actually seen "Skulls. A thousand skulls, and the bastard boy again. Jon Snow".

Oh the weather outside is frightful,

But the fire is so delightful,

And since we've no place to go,

Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow!

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As has been said, Melisandre sees Jon Snow and refers to him as Snow. Everybody else assumes she is just talking about snow.

Also, The Prince of Winterfell was joking about the reference to Ramsay. There is none. :)

Oh the weather outside is frightful,

But the fire is so delightful,

And since we've no place to go,

Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow!

Hehe, awesome! :P

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As has been said, Melisandre sees Jon Snow and refers to him as Snow. Everybody else assumes she is just talking about snow.

Also, The Prince of Winterfell was joking about the reference to Ramsay. There is none. :)

Ahh ,yes - I think I missed the sarcasm there! My mind's a bit muddled this morning due to last night's heavy session of Mario Golf that rolled into the early hours!! :)

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It's a discrepancy because it's coming from two seperate POVs.

The capitalised "Snow" comes from Melisandre's POV, where she remarks she not only sees Jon's face, but the fire actually whispers Jon Snow to her.

The non-capitalised "snow" comes from Jon's POV, and is his interpretation of her words; he thinks she's talking about physical snow.

I actually thought these were 2 different scenes. The first instance is Jon Snow, the second is just normal white snow. If she were talking to Jon, she wouldn't say "I see Snow" referring to him, wouldn't she just say "I see you"

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I actually thought these were 2 different scenes. The first instance is Jon Snow, the second is just normal white snow. If she were talking to Jon, she wouldn't say "I see Snow" referring to him, wouldn't she just say "I see you"

I agree. In Jon's point of view, Melisandre gives Jon the same answer for Stannis and Mance - (Jon) "And what of Mance? Is he lost aswell? What do your fires show?" (Melisandre) "The same, I fear. Only snow."

Maybe the snow helps the Others against Melisandre's magic?

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I actually thought these were 2 different scenes. The first instance is Jon Snow, the second is just normal white snow. If she were talking to Jon, she wouldn't say "I see Snow" referring to him, wouldn't she just say "I see you"

I interpret that as Melisandre not wanting to give away the game to Jon.

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After reading what Mel is seeing in her falmes:

The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange, appearing and disappearing again, a shadow half- seen behind a fluttering curtain. Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man again. But the skulls were here as well, the skulls were all around him.
Skulls. A thousand skulls, and the bastard boy again. Jon Snow...
Yet now she could not even seem to find her king. I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R’hllor shows me only Snow.

It's pretty clear to me that she sees Snow, Jon Snow Azor Ahai reborn, the Prince that was Promised!

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Skulls. A thousand skulls, and the bastard boy again. Jon Snow...

Could this line about "a thousand skulls" refer to the crypts at Winterfell, perhaps? Jon's got a date with the Stark dead, if his dreams are any indication.

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I think she sees Jon Snow, but that doesn't valid as a proof that he's AA, because before when Melisandre asked for AA the flames showed Stannis and I doubt that Stannis is AA, or there's more than one AA. I think the flames show Mel what she should know, who she should go to, not who she asks.

Off course there's the chance she never really asked in the exact words" Show me Azor Ahai" before. Stannis just showed up in her flames and she presumed he was. But hardly, hardly believe that's true.

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