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Does Melisandre see Snow or snow?


Third World King

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It's a discrepancy because it's coming from two seperate POVs.

The capitalised "Snow" comes from Melisandre's POV, where she remarks she not only sees Jon's face, but the fire actually whispers Jon Snow to her.

The non-capitalised "snow" comes from Jon's POV, and is his interpretation of her words; he thinks she's talking about physical snow.

The second one was Jon's POV, and it was Jon Snow asking her about her visions. Why would Melisandre say she saw "snow" instead of "you"?

She could have simply said, "When I search for Stannis, all I see is you, Jon Snow."..and then go to warn him about the impending doom.

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I interpret that as Melisandre not wanting to give away the game to Jon.

Jon Snow asked Mel if she saw Stannis in her flames, and the red witch replied to seeing fools, but not Stannis. Surely, she could have said she saw Jon Snow too in the flames without giving anything away? She told the bastard all her visions concerning him before, so why be mysterious now? Why does she have to encrypt stuff, unless, it's GRRM who is trying to mess with us.

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She told the bastard all her visions concerning him before, so why be mysterious now? Why does she have to be encrypted about it, unless, it's GRRM who is trying to mess with us.

Is there a way to talk about Jon without referring to him disparagingly as "the bastard" in (almost) every post?

Mel pretty clearly saw Jon. But I don't really think this necessarily means he's Azor Ahai.

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Is there a way to talk about Jon without referring to him disparagingly as "the bastard" in (almost) every post?

Mel pretty clearly saw Jon. But I don't really think this necessarily means he's Azor Ahai.

She also saw a vision of Daenerys and Daario/Bran and Bloodraven when she prays to her r'hllor thingy for a vision of AA; she did not see Jon Snow alone.

PS. Jon Snow is a bastard. Don't see how my saying it occasionally is a bad thing. It's who he is...

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She also saw a vision of Daenerys and Daario/Bran and Bloodraven when she prays to her r'hllor thingy for a vision of AA; she did not see Jon Snow alone.

PS. Jon Snow is a bastard. Don't see how my saying it occasionally is a bad thing. It's who he is...

Yea, and I'm not arguing that Jon = Azor Ahai definitively. The point being, though, that she saw Jon, which is the question you posed in your OP.

Yes, Jon is a "bastard," but there's also a very good chance he's actually the legitimate offspring of Rhaeger and Lyanna. Calling him "the bastard" at every opportunity just seems like an unnecessary and incendiary jab at the character. It sort of opens the door for people to start referring to other characters disparagingly, like calling Dany, for example, an "abomination born of incest," which is technically speaking, what she is :cool4: .

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The second one was Jon's POV, and it was Jon Snow asking her about her visions. Why would Melisandre say she saw "snow" instead of "you"?

She could have simply said, "When I search for Stannis, all I see is you, Jon Snow."..and then go to warn him about the impending doom.

As I said, I don't think she necessarily wants Jon to know she sees his face when she prays to see Azor Ahai. It's kind of giving away the game.

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Yea, and I'm not arguing that Jon = Azor Ahai definitively. The point being, though, that she saw Jon, which is the question you posed in your OP.

Yes, Jon is a "bastard," but there's also a very good chance he's actually the legitimate offspring of Rhaeger and Lyanna. Calling him "the bastard" at every opportunity just seems like an unnecessary and incendiary jab at the character. It sort of opens the door for people to start referring to other characters disparagingly, like calling Dany, for example, an "abomination born of incest," which is technically speaking, what she is :cool4: .

Epic! :bowdown:
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Yea, and I'm not arguing that Jon = Azor Ahai definitively. The point being, though, that she saw Jon, which is the question you posed in your OP.

Out of curiosity, do you think that Jon is not AA or are you just saying that we do not have definite proof of that fact yet?

Also, I can't pray for you but I'll think positive thoughts on the casting choice.

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Jon Snow asked Mel if she saw Stannis in her flames, and the red witch replied to seeing fools, but not Stannis. Surely, she could have said she saw Jon Snow too in the flames without giving anything away? She told the bastard all her visions concerning him before, so why be mysterious now? Why does she have to encrypt stuff, unless, it's GRRM who is trying to mess with us.

She's not encrypting stuff just now.

Jon reflects her response is "that same useless answer", which indicates this is not the first time Melisandre has answered "I see snow" when given a question. She doesn't want people to know all she's seeing is Jon's face.

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She also saw a vision of Daenerys and Daario/Bran and Bloodraven when she prays to her r'hllor thingy for a vision of AA; she did not see Jon Snow alone.

PS. Jon Snow is a bastard. Don't see how my saying it occasionally is a bad thing. It's who he is...

Wait, when does she see Daario and Daenerys?

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New name for Dany!

Oh no. I wasn't trying to come up with new disparaging names for characters, just illustrating the point that underhanded jabs at them because of their birth and the like gets ugly and unnecessary. I wasn't trying to endorse new hate terms ;) .

Out of curiosity, do you think that Jon is not AA or are you just saying that we do not have definite proof of that fact yet?

Also, I can't pray for you but I'll think positive thoughts on the casting choice.

I actually just wrote out my thoughts on Azor Ahai in the other thread debating this: AA=/= Last Hero (and I made an OP a while back somewhere about it). I'm not so sure that the iteration of AA the Reds focus on is the same thing as the person who will win the Battle for the Dawn.

And yea, I like Hinds as an actor, but I had a, shall we say, incompatible image of what Mance would be like.

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Yea, and I'm not arguing that Jon = Azor Ahai definitively. The point being, though, that she saw Jon, which is the question you posed in your OP.

Yeah, she definitely saw Jon Snow (along with Daario etc) in her visions, I'm not arguing that. What I'm arguing about about was the capitalized S in snow in Melisandre POV, and the small s in Jon Snow's POV. What does it all mean for the readers?

Yes, Jon is a "bastard," but there's also a very good chance he's actually the legitimate offspring of Rhaeger and Lyanna. Calling him "the bastard" at every opportunity just seems like an unnecessary and incendiary jab at the character. It sort of opens the door for people to start referring to other characters disparagingly, like calling Dany, for example, an "abomination born of incest," which is technically speaking, what she is :cool4: .

I do not believe that Rhaegar and Lyanna bore a child together, or that they were infact, a married couple. Jon Snow is Ned's bastard.

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I do not believe that Rhaegar and Lyanna bore a child together, or that they were infact, a married couple. Jon Snow is Ned's bastard.

Just curious, how do you then account for the Kingsguard's reaction to Ned at the Tower of Joy?

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Yeah, she definitely saw Jon Snow (along with Daario etc) in her visions, I'm not arguing that. What I'm arguing about about was the capitalized S in snow in Melisandre POV, and the small s in Jon Snow's POV. What does it all mean for the readers?

When did she see Daario?

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Yeah, she definitely saw Jon Snow (along with Daario etc) in her visions, I'm not arguing that. What I'm arguing about about was the capitalized S in snow in Melisandre POV, and the small s in Jon Snow's POV. What does it all mean for the readers?

I do not believe that Rhaegar and Lyanna bore a child together, or that they were infact, a married couple. Jon Snow is Ned's bastard.

We're not completely sure that the "bodies entwined in lust" (paraphrased) is confirmed as Daario and Dany.

On the second issue, I think you are going to be very disappointed.

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As I said, I don't think she necessarily wants Jon to know she sees his face when she prays to see Azor Ahai. It's kind of giving away the game.

Jon Snow did not know she had prayed to see Azor Ahai. He thought she had prayed to see Stannis, hence his question:

"A wonder you haven' t had the poor man burned. All it would take was a word in the queen's ear, and Patchface would feed her fires. "You see fools in your fire, but no hint of Stannis?"

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Oh no. I wasn't trying to come up with new disparaging names for characters, just illustrating the point that underhanded jabs at them because of their birth and the like gets ugly and unnecessary. I wasn't trying to endorse new hate terms ;) .

I understand and I corrected myself :closedeyes: (I wouldn't use it anyway...). I just found it a nice alternative to Jon's bastard title. :rolleyes:
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