Jump to content

R+L=J v.32


Angalin

Recommended Posts

1. That happen at Darry Castle not WF.

2. I think a better question would be how Stannis will react to learning that Jon is the heir of Rhaegar.

As much as Stannis seems to like Jon, could he turn and bend the knee to Jon? Stannis at times (like Robert before him) acts/has said things like its not that he wants to be king, its his duty. If given the knowledge that Jon is the Rightful King of the Seven Kingdoms, would he, could he turn and follow Jon? would it be a relief to him? Could he accept that R'hllor/Mel has lead him astray?

If he did, what would Selyse do? If he turn his back on R'hllor would she kill him?

If Stannis bends the knee to Jon:

Selyse might kill Stannis for bending the knee. I think that given the opportunity, that mustachio of a woman will make a lot of damage.

Mel-I don't really know her deal, so I cannot really draw a conclusion as to what will she do.

Oh, and Stannis will be happy in this situation.(Unless I have misjudged him).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Haha first off I happen to think Rhaegar was a cool dude, but that is impressions and no facts. I don't think we have an excellent example of his actions that correlate to Jon yet.

Didn't Stannis say he was torn on fighting for his brother and staying loyal to the Targs? I do wonder if Jon actually did start wielding a flaming sword if Stannis would bend the knee. The fact everyone says he will break before he bends really makes me wonder if that will be the case...

Of course this is all assuming Jon would stake a claim. I personally believe he will because it seems like a logical way to unite westeros in preparation for the apocalypse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Didn't Stannis say he was torn on fighting for his brother and staying loyal to the Targs? I do wonder if Jon actually did start wielding a flaming sword if Stannis would bend the knee. The fact everyone says he will break before he bends really makes me wonder if that will be the case...

Would it be either bending or breaking apply? If he founds out that Jon is the legit heir, and then Jon has the flaming sword.

All the things he has done is based on what he thinks, if he knows he is wrong...that someone with a better claim, and a better lightbringer...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. That happen at Darry Castle not WF.

2. I think a better question would be how Stannis will react to learning that Jon is the heir of Rhaegar.

As much as Stannis seems to like Jon, could he turn and bend the knee to Jon? Stannis at times (like Robert before him) acts/has said things like its not that he wants to be king, its his duty. If given the knowledge that Jon is the Rightful King of the Seven Kingdoms, would he, could he turn and follow Jon? would it be a relief to him? Could he accept that R'hllor/Mel has lead him astray?

If he did, what would Selyse do? If he turn his back on R'hllor would she kill him?

I think Stannis will not bend the knee, because he will still think he is the rightful King.

Remember the "right of conquest" rule....Aegon the Conqueror didn't become King because he was the heir of a lord or anything...he became king because he conquered the 7 kingdoms. 300 years later Robert did the same, he became King because his rebellion succeded, by rigth of conquest the Baratheons are the rightful royal family.

Stannis will still consider himself King, if Dany, Faegon or Jon want the throne they will have to conquer it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would it be either bending or breaking apply? If he founds out that Jon is the legit heir, and then Jon has the flaming sword.

All the things he has done is based on what he thinks, if he knows he is wrong...that someone with a better claim, and a better lightbringer...

That really is a tough one; I can see him bending, but I think breaking is just a little more likely. I guess the other question would be whether Stannis will even be around to make the choice - who knows if he survives the impending battle...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Au contraire. He was wise enough to say we are not sure enough about Rhaegar to say X, unlike the aggresive detractors who slam him high and low without having any real knowledged as to what actually happened nor what it meant (and frequently not even knowing the clues that we do have).

;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is for you, Budj:

Okay I am wondering why Jon, if he is truly Rhaegar's son, burned his hand when he was fighting the wight? And why doesn't Jon have Targaryen features? Wouldn't Jon have silver hair and purple eyes if he was Rhaegar's son? And what about Wylla -- Ned even says she is Jon's mother!

HEE HEE! (this is a joke, just to be clear, I am a firm believer in R+L=J) I think that about covers the usual "objections"...

Hahaha, yes.......now we don't need to say them again........right?? :ack:

I will meet you at the end of time!!!, also love the avatar......and the name.,.....Moonglum. :cool4:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Crazy R+L = J theory.

I don't know if anyone has thought of this or discussed this theory, so here goes.

Ned finds Lyana in the Tower having given birth to Jon, fearing Lyana and Jons safety he takes Jon as his own bastard, and has Howland take Lyana to

Greywatch,

the realm has had enough of Roberts war, eventually Lyana / Jyana and Howland have children of their own Jojen and Meera, (dark hair from Lyana , mossy green eyes from Howland) They send their children to bend the knee to their leige lord and cousin King Robb.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I want to talk aftermath of the deaths; Ned and Howland had quite a to-do list:

- get Jon to a wetnurse.

- get Lyanna's body (after suitable preparation) back to Winterfell.

- build cairns for 8 men.

- tear down the tower of joy.

I used to be an archaeologist and I could tell you first hand that moving enough earth to bury 8 men takes time - even for the biggest strongest guys (I'm a 5'3" girl and it would take me a very long time). The same for demolishing a stone tower, two men could take down a small watch keep but they would not be very quick doing it. For those reasons I doubt it was an error by George that'they' found Ned and think rather that there were additional people at the ToJ in the aftermath.

To me it would make sense if Ned brought a larger company to the vicinity of the ToJ but left most of it some distance away before continuing with just his six. He may have done this for secrecy's sake but could have used the excuse of wanting to fight the the kingsguards honourably rather than dishonourably overwhelming them (which is my personal opinion was the reason only 7 went forward). After the fight Howland could have returned the short distance to camp to fetch some other trusted individuals whilst Ned went to Lyanna. Then at some point they must have taken Jon out before bringing a larger force of men to the tower to perform the various acts of labour. Once Jon was gone and Lyanna's body tidied there was no longer a requirement for secrecy, that the last of the kingsguard had been defeated did not need to be kept from anybody (and indeed Ned's men knew at least part of what happened with Dayne because Cat overheard it at Winterfell).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I want to talk aftermath of the deaths; Ned and Howland had quite a to-do list:

- get Jon to a wetnurse.

- get Lyanna's body (after suitable preparation) back to Winterfell.

- build cairns for 8 men.

- tear down the tower of joy.

I used to be an archaeologist and I could tell you first hand that moving enough earth to bury 8 men takes time - even for the biggest strongest guys (I'm a 5'3" girl and it would take me a very long time). The same for demolishing a stone tower, two men could take down a small watch keep but they would not be very quick doing it. For those reasons I doubt it was an error by George that'they' found Ned and think rather that there were additional people at the ToJ in the aftermath.

To me it would make sense if Ned brought a larger company to the vicinity of the ToJ but left most of it some distance away before continuing with just his six. He may have done this for secrecy's sake but could have used the excuse of wanting to fight the the kingsguards honourably rather than dishonourably overwhelming them (which is my personal opinion was the reason only 7 went forward). After the fight Howland could have returned the short distance to camp to fetch some other trusted individuals whilst Ned went to Lyanna. Then at some point they must have taken Jon out before bringing a larger force of men to the tower to perform the various acts of labour. Once Jon was gone and Lyanna's body tidied there was no longer a requirement for secrecy, that the last of the kingsguard had been defeated did not need to be kept from anybody (and indeed Ned's men knew at least part of what happened with Dayne because Cat overheard it at Winterfell).

There is precedent: Barristan killed Maelys the Monstrous in single combat in the middle of two armies. Also, Robert = Rhaegar. I find it unlikely Ned and his bud would travel without a contingent (even LF took one) and reasonable to accept that they fought the KG on their own. The need for a lot more manpower suggests they werent alone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well my take is the ToJ was just and old watch tower, probably made of stone and wood likely in the style of small European XI and XII century fortifications, not a big keep...if you set it on fire I will most likely come down in just one night, after the stones cool down they used them so make the cairns.... 2 man could do it but as you say it should take some time....they coudnt do it "one sunny summer evening"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well my take is the ToJ was just and old watch tower, probably made of stone and wood likely in the style of small European XI and XII century fortifications, not a big keep...if you set it on fire I will most likely come down in just one night, after the stones cool down they used them so make the cairns.... 2 man could do it but as you say it should take some time....they coudnt do it "one sunny summer evening"

There definitely had to either be a wet nurse or some way for Ned to feed Jon out in the middle of nowhere. If they tore down the TOJ and built cairns for all eight who died in the fight with the KG, there had to be someone taking care of the infant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There definitely had to either be a wet nurse or some way for Ned to feed Jon out in the middle of nowhere. If they tore down the TOJ and built cairns for all eight who died in the fight with the KG, there had to be someone taking care of the infant.

My feeling is that the wet nurse was already there at the Tower when Ned & Co. arrived. If it was Wylla, then Arthur Dayne probably brought her with him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I want to talk aftermath of the deaths; Ned and Howland had quite a to-do list:

- get Jon to a wetnurse.

- get Lyanna's body (after suitable preparation) back to Winterfell.

- build cairns for 8 men.

- tear down the tower of joy.

I used to be an archaeologist and I could tell you first hand that moving enough earth to bury 8 men takes time - even for the biggest strongest guys (I'm a 5'3" girl and it would take me a very long time). The same for demolishing a stone tower, two men could take down a small watch keep but they would not be very quick doing it. For those reasons I doubt it was an error by George that'they' found Ned and think rather that there were additional people at the ToJ in the aftermath.

Two men, a dozen or so horses, and one or more servants. And they could easily have taken several days. I don't think its all that big a deal at all.

To me it would make sense if Ned brought a larger company to the vicinity of the ToJ but left most of it some distance away before continuing with just his six. He may have done this for secrecy's sake but could have used the excuse of wanting to fight the the kingsguards honourably rather than dishonourably overwhelming them (which is my personal opinion was the reason only 7 went forward). After the fight Howland could have returned the short distance to camp to fetch some other trusted individuals whilst Ned went to Lyanna. Then at some point they must have taken Jon out before bringing a larger force of men to the tower to perform the various acts of labour. Once Jon was gone and Lyanna's body tidied there was no longer a requirement for secrecy, that the last of the kingsguard had been defeated did not need to be kept from anybody (and indeed Ned's men knew at least part of what happened with Dayne because Cat overheard it at Winterfell).

Thats not impossible, but pretty complicated. Bringing just the seven is much simpler when you remeberthey have horses and an unknown number of servants to help with the physical labours.

And pretty much everyone 'knows' Ned 'took out' Arthur Dayne, by his presenting the Daynes with Dawn. Thats his 'public' reason for going to Starfall after all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm definitely a supporter of the theory, it's just too good to not be true. But I don't think Jon will ever sit the Iron Throne. I think providing Aegon is real he may end up marrying Arrianne in Dorne, thus uniting those lands, I think Dany will eventually get the iron throne, and I suspect Jon will end up as the King In The North - something Stannis has already practically offered him anyway. The Dragon has 3 heads, after all - although Griff is as yet untried in terms of his grace under pressure, I can't see Dany and Jon being enemies, they both have too strong a sense of justice. However I also think that Jon will be "resurrected", or at least saved, by Melisandre, who will realise he's actually Azor Ahai reborn. I suspect the whole "stab your love in the heart" thing is what Jon's been doing this whole time - discarding his supposed duties, "killing the boy", and forging an alliance with the Wildlings are all part of his transformation. I think the real problem is going to be if this does happen, Melisandre is going to be extremely torn about her loyalty to Stannis which will of course make her a far more interesting character.

Anyway, more on-topic, If he's a Targaryen/Stark and especially if Rhaegar married Lyanna before he was born (I think it was possible? was it? Then again as we've seen bastards can be legitimised anyway so I guess there you go) - He's going to be the best possible candidate to rule the North, both from a Northerner's perspective (even a Wildling's one) and from that of a Targaryen ruler in the South.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...