Rereading Tyrion

[pig]

Post deleted.

[Foxhound]

The remark that Jaime was the only person to show Tyrion respect or affection during his childhood is one to keep in mind for later when Tyrion thinks about his uncles, which paint a different picture. It's the first remark that shows Tyrion's hero worship of Jaime, and how heavily it colours his view of his brother.

Looking at the slap, I find two things interesting. People have been mentioning future problems, but Tyrion is also not worrying about any immediate consequences. Joffrey threatens to tell his mother, and Tyrion's response is another slap. I think we can assume Joffrey doesn't actually tell Cersei. That speaks to Tyrion's confidence at this point in his relationship over Joffrey. The second is the advice Tyrion is giving. I believe it's the first example of someone talking about the importance of courtesy. But while his advice is good for the South, I wonder how much it applies in Winterfell. Joffrey's absence has been "noticed", but by who other than Tyrion? Somehow I doubt Ned was offended that Joffrey failed to give him some false sympathies, or was particularly impressed when he finally offered them.

Finally, I think it's interesting that while most characters, and the general "center" of the story is heading south to King's Landing, Tyrion instead decides to go north to the Wall with Jon, for no other reason except to see it.

[Tagganaro]

Wow. Cheers to what should be another great reread thread. I look forward to following along. :cheers:

[brashcandy]

Finally, I think it's interesting that while most characters, and the general "center" of the story is heading south to King's Landing, Tyrion instead decides to go north to the Wall with Jon, for no other reason except to see it.

And the book he's reading when the chapter starts is on the changing seasons. There's a kind of intellectual connection established with the Starks in these opening chapters.

[Blisscraft]

BC - Glad you noted the book Tyrion is reading. It's an important sign, not only as to Tryion's intellectual curiosity, but also to what's coming. "Fasten your seatbelts. It's going to be a bumpy night."

[Ragnorak]

And the book he's reading when the chapter starts is on the changing seasons. There's a kind of intellectual connection established with the Starks in these opening chapters.

And the reading, along with the tender care he has for books, also puts him in a very sympathetic light for readers.

Also the chapter opens and closes with wolf references.

Somewhere in the great stone maze of Winterfell, a wolf howled.

“Tyrion, my sweet brother,” he said darkly, “there are times when you give me cause to wonder whose side you are on.”

Tyrion’s mouth was full of bread and fish. He took a swallow of strong black beer to wash it all down, and grinned up wolfishly at Jaime, “Why, Jaime, my sweet brother,” he said, “you wound me. You know how much I love my family.”

So the wolfish smile, Jaime's musing on which side he's on, his earlier positive encounter with Jon, and his dislike for his sister, nephew, and father(from Jon's POV) in light of his loving his family comment, all contribute to a Stark sympathy association (and Lannister disassociation) starting from the first line of his first POV chapter.

[Fire Eater]

Steven Atwell writes an analysis of the chapter, here is a good bit:

Finding a good historical parallel for Tyrion is a bit difficult in that George R.R Martin has infused his favorite character with such a unique personality, and that he’s brought in several influences from different historical periods. The best I can come up with is that Tyrion resembles a mix of Claudius and Richard III. Like Tyrion, Claudius was born with disabilities (a limp, stutter, and slight deafness) that led to his family ostracizing him, yet who turned out to be a talented administrator, especially when it came to expanding the Empire (he conquered Britain, Thrace, and Judea among other nations), public works (two major aqueducts and the port of Ostia being some of the most prominent), and judicial matters. Similarly, Richard III was depicted by Tudor propagandists as having a hunchback and withered arm and leg as outward signs of his inward corruption, whereas in reality he was a quite conscientious monarch, who promoted economic development in the North of England and who created legal reforms on behalf of the poor, including the first courts where the destitute could be heard and the practice of bail. In both men, we see how disability either genuine or invented could be used to either protect oneself, in the case of Claudius, who survived all of his murderous family by pretending to be dimwitted, or to injure someone’s reputation, as in the case of Richard III.

[Winterfellian]

Thank you Ragnorak, BB, and Lummel for starting another great reread thread! Here's hoping this is as good as the last one!

I really liked Blisscraft's post in reference to Jon's first meeting with Tyrion. If I may, I will also like to add something from this chapter as well. As have been noted Jon and Tyrion share a similar stigma of outcasts but are raised within a powerful family. Based on this similarities I find Tyrion's advice to Jon to be very interesting:

Let me give you some counsel bastard. Never forget what you are for surely the world would not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armor yourself in it and it will never be used to hurt you.

This is a very sensible advice to give to someone in a position similar to Tyrion's or Jon's but how much does Tyrion actually follow his own advice? When I first read the quote above I got the impression of a strong person that makes do with whatever life gives him and doesn't let others opinions of himself get to him. In short, I had a very positive reaction to Tyrion because of this particular advice. However in his very first POV he now makes me doubt of how much does he actually applied it on his own life. His slapping of Joffrey is a perfect example of forgetting who he is and is certainly not the last one along his arch. He is the (unwanted) son of a powerful lord but Joffrey is the heir to the throne and future king. Did he really expect his situation of superiority to remain unchange? As for armoring yourself in it part, am not sure Tyrion's armor extend beyond embracing the nickname Imp but I don't want to get too ahead.

About him sitting on the ledge above the hall where the Starks, Lannisters and Baratheons are feasting I view it as a reflection of Tyrion's own image of himself in contrast to the persons in that hall. He knows himself to be a clever and learned person and with this comes a certain self importance that lead him to believe that his cleverness puts him above others like the honorable and politically inept Starks represented mostly by Ned, the ruthless but rash Lannisters (Cercei and Jaime) and the strong but gullible Baratheons (Robert).

I also find him interesting that through Jon's eyes he's associated with the figure of Gargoyle. The gargoyles originated in the middle ages and are symbolically associated with a dualism between good and evil and Tyrion is a character that embodies this dualism perfectly.

[brashcandy]

This is a very sensible advice to give to someone in a position similar to Tyrion's or Jon's but how much does Tyrion actually follow his own advice? When I first read the quote above I got the impression of a strong person that makes do with whatever life gives him and doesn't let others opinions of himself get to him. In short, I had a very positive reaction to Tyrion because of this particular advice. However in his very first POV he now makes me doubt of how much does he actually applied it on his own life. His slapping of Joffrey is a perfect example of forgetting who he is and is certainly not the last one along his arch. He is the (unwanted) son of a powerful lord but Joffrey is the heir to the throne and future king. Did he really expect his situation of superiority to remain unchange? As for armoring yourself in it part, am not sure Tyrion's armor extend beyond embracing the nickname Imp but I don't want to get too ahead.

Winterfellian, I was thinking the same thing :) Where it stood out to me was when he's meeting with Jaime and Cersei and he not only comments about Cersei looking at him with that faint air of distaste, but also of how he could mostly forgive Jaime of anything since he was the only one who treated him with kindness throughout his childhood. The thoughts about Cersei may just seem to be mere observation, but I think it reinforces the idea that Tyrion hasn't really embraced this outsider status as he would have Jon Snow believe, and his veneration of Jaime again highlights how he too wants to feel loved and appreciated by his family.

[Ragnorak]

Welcome all, and thank you so much for your participation.

Tyrion II

Overview

Tyrion, Benjen, and Jon set out for the Wall at the same time the rest of the royal procession leaves for Kings Landing. Their small procession is contrasted with the huge columns of riders heading south. As readers we get our first description of the North through a stranger's eyes. The travelling is hard and Tyrion suspects Benjen is making it so intentionally, but refuses to give him the satisfaction of complaining. They meet up with Yoren and several rapers that he is escorting back to the Wall as new recruits.

One night while the others are making camp Tyrion goes off by himself to read a rare book on dragons Lord Eddard gave him permission to borrow from the Winterfell library. We get some background history on the Targaryen conquest, the Field of Fire, the dragons dying out, and learn of Tyrion's childhood fascination with dragons. He is grateful for the historical fact that the Lannister King lived long enough to surrender and father children.

Jon Snow interrupts his musings to ask why Tyrion reads so much. Tyrion tells him that he must do something to further the honor of his House and his gift of strength is his mind. He expresses gratitude for being born a Lannister and being spared the fate of poorer dwarves, and goes on to recount how he used to imagine his father and sister burning in dragonfire. At Jon's look of shock Tyrion begins to describe Jon's own situation through Lannister family values. He realizes he's been too hard on Jon as he sees how upset Jon has become and steps forward to apologize only to be knocked to the ground by Ghost. What could have been an antagonistic exchange is defused through jokes about snarks and grumpkins and they return to camp in good spirits. The chapter ends with Tyrion observing Jon staring into the fire as they had discussed Tyrion doing when he was Jon's age.

Observations

• Tyrion leaves Winterfell in the opposite direction from of his siblings. He is traveling North, a Stark direction, while the rest of his family travels South.
  
• He expresses gratitude that King Loren lived to father children and that he was born a Lannister dwarf and not a commoner. An interesting appreciation for fate considering his general resentment for his treatment as the dwarf that fate made him.
  
• Tyrion's trip to the Wall is part of his childhood dream to wander the Free Cities and see the marvels of the world even though we don't know this yet
  
• Tyrion notes that the North goes on forever and how the map is one thing and the land another. Book knowledge vs experience?
  

Tyrion's Pre-Wall View of the Nights Watch

I think we should make a note of this and see how it evolves.

Tyrion laughed. “You’re too smart to believe that. The Night’s Watch is a midden heap for all the misfits of the realm. I’ve seen you looking at Yoren and his boys. Those are your new brothers, Jon Snow, how do you like them? Sullen peasants, debtors, poachers, rapers, thieves, and bastards like you all wind up on the Wall, watching for grumkins and snarks and all the other monsters your wet nurse warned you about. The good part is there are no grumkins or snarks, so it’s scarcely dangerous work. The bad part is you freeze your balls off, but since you’re not allowed to breed anyway, I don’t suppose that matters.”

Analysis

Stark vs Lannister and Tyrion's Projection

We have a Stark and a Lannister travelling North under the shadow of their families' conflict. The hard pace Benjen warns Tyrion about is probably just normal for him and might even be required given the recent troubles with rangers returning. This is the Kings Road and Benjen is used to ranging beyond the Wall. His notion of an easy pace on a road is likely quite different from someone who only travels on roads. Tyrion takes this hard pace to be personally directed at him. He even attributes Benjen's consent to his company to Tyrion's status as the Queen's brother. More likely, Benjen wanted to get the King or anyone with his ear to visit the Wall and see their plight. Tyrion is probably a disappointment as a candidate, but Benjen is the type to be more concerned with babysitting a spoiled lordling than a petty family grudge.

“I warn you, Lannister, you’ll find no inns at the Wall,” he had said, looking down on him.

Any highborn person of birth who can spread the tale of their need is generally welcome at the Wall. In this regard only Tyrion's dismissive and sarcastic persona is of concern. Once Tyrion proves a sufficiently hardy traveler, I suspect Benjen's real regret at his accompanying them is the loss of some alone time with his nephew on the road.

Tyrion is probably correct that Benjen shares his brother's distaste for Lannisters. Tyrion's father's 20 years of service to the man who brutally murdered their father and brother doesn't help. His father's late entrance into their rebellion to have Elia raped and murdered along with the hideous slaying of her two children didn't make things any better. (though we know almost none of this yet) The tension is such that when Benjen offers him a bearskin to keep warm Tyrion accepts it as an act of petty revenge.

Stark had offered it to him in an excess of Night’s Watch gallantry, no doubt expecting him to graciously decline. ... By now Stark was no doubt regretting his chivalrous impulse.

Perhaps he had learned a lesson. The Lannisters never declined, graciously or otherwise. The Lannisters took what was offered.

Benjen probably knows this already and it is one of the reasons he dislikes Lannisters.

I see Tyrion as projecting his own family dynamic onto the Starks in this chapter-- which in a warped kind of way means he's treating them like family. Starks do not make empty chivalrous gestures for public appearances so Tyrion's view of the bearskin gift seems to be the way a Lannister would offer it. He does a similar kind of projection with Jon, but unlike Benjen who he sees as the typical highborn looking down on him, Jon's bastard status earns him the projection of Tyrion's own victimization allowing the breakthrough for them to become friends.

“What good is that? There are no more dragons,” the boy said with the easy certainty of youth.

“So they say,” Tyrion replied. “Sad, isn’t it? When I was your age, used to dream of having a dragon of my own.”

“You did?” the boy said suspiciously. Perhaps he thought Tyrion was making fun of him.

“Oh, yes. Even a stunted, twisted, ugly little boy can look down over the world when he’s seated on a dragon’s back.” Tyrion pushed the bearskin aside and climbed to his feet. “I used to start fires in the bowels of Casterly Rock and stare at the flames for hours, pretending they were dragonfire. Sometimes I’d imagine my father burning. At other times, my sister.” Jon Snow was staring at him, a look equal parts horror and fascination. Tyrion guffawed. “Don’t look at me that way, bastard. I know your secret. You’ve dreamt the same kind of dreams.”

“No,” Jon Snow said, horrified. “I wouldn’t…”

“No? Never?” Tyrion raised an eyebrow. “Well, no doubt the Starks have been terribly good to you. I’m certain Lady Stark treats you as if you were one of her own. And your brother Robb, he’s always been kind, and why not? He gets Winterfell and you get the Wall. And your father… he must have good reasons for packing you off to the Night’s Watch…”

“Stop it,” Jon Snow said, his face dark with anger. “The Night’s Watch is a noble calling!”

Especially assuming Jon has Targaryen blood, he has almost certainly dreamt about dragons as has almost every Westeros child. Jon also dreamt about becoming Lord of Winterfell and felt incredibly guilty about it when he understood what being a bastard meant and how that wish was a betrayal of Robb. He was probably identifying with Tyrion over the dragon dreams and took greater offense at the implication that he secretly wanted to burn his family members because of both his prior self identification with Tyrion and his real guilt over having wanted to be Lord of Winterfell. Tyrion reads this as Jon thinking Tyrion was mocking him which is exactly what Tyrion would be thinking in his shoes-- more projection. But it is this projection of himself onto Jon and his guilt over being too harsh that allows him to overcome his anger at being humiliated by Ghost's attack and opens the door to their friendship. The real ice breaker comes from Jon, "maybe he thought you were a grumkin" which is actually a very Tyrion-like line and he even uses it on Benjen when they return to camp.

The Outcasts

This is just a sad and touching moment of two outcasts acknowledging the death a their dreams. I can almost see it as either the incentive moment or denouement for a Buddy Film.

“It’s true, isn’t it?” he said when he was done. “What you said about the Night’s Watch.”

Tyrion nodded.

Jon Snow set his mouth in a grim line. “If that’s what it is, that’s what it is.”

Tyrion grinned at him. “That’s good, bastard. Most men would rather deny a hard truth than face it.”

“Most men,” the boy said. “But not you.”

“No,” Tyrion admitted, “not me. I seldom even dream of dragons anymore. There are no dragons.”

Power

Varys smiled. “Here, then. Power resides where men believe it resides. No more and no less.”

“So power is a mummer’s trick?”

“A shadow on the wall,” Varys murmured, “yet shadows can kill. And ofttimes a very small man can cast a very large shadow.”

He’d thrust the torch into the mouth of one of the larger skulls and made the shadows leap and dance on the wall behind him.

Tyrion is engaged in the act of projecting power, yet despite his father being one of the icons of power in Westeros, he is using fire and a dragon skull-- the symbols of the House his father served-- to project that power. We even learn of the depth of his hatred for his father and sister through his dreams of using a Targaryen symbol of power to kill them. I'm not subscribing to a Tyrion as a secret Targ here, but this strikes me as rather noteworthy. I see it as Tyrion possibly embracing that power that held sway over his father. It could also be foreshadowing of his future with Dany and Aegon.

Sympathy for the Imp

Although we get some background and insight into Tyrion here, the major plot/character development that we see is Jon understanding and accepting his fate in the Nights Watch. Tyrion breaks the truth to him, helps him embrace it, endures a humiliation that would normally incur a "Lannister Debt" of epic proportions and forgives Jon for it. The chapter even ends with Tyrion watching Jon stare into the fire in a moment of mutual sympathy. Tyrion is our eyes for a key Stark character development in a chapter where he wishes to burn his own family members alive. This goes a long way to distancing Tyrion from the Lannister antagonist aura and place him under the sympathetic umbrella of the Stark protagonists.

It is also worthy of noting that Tyrion probably makes friends or at least earns respect that he doesn't fully realize. (hmm...there are probably more accurate words than friends and respect)

Tyrion tasted and handed it back. “More pepper,” he said.

Tyrion shared around his skin of wine until even Yoren grew mellow.

I remember the tale of the man sent to the Watch for stealing pepper we hear later in Arya's POV with Yoren. I wonder if he ever tastes any of Tyrion's. The generosity Tyrion shows with items like pepper and expensive wine is significant. The whole notion of "below the salt" is that salt is expensive and reserved for the better class of guests. Pepper is a far rarer commodity and Tyrion is sharing it equally and generously with everyone including the rapers from the Fingers along with his expensive wine. This is actually a very unLannister-like trait and probably worthy of praise.

From Tyrion I

I really like the question posed regarding Tyrion following his own advice about "accepting hard truths." I think this a thing we should look out for, especially during each end of book summary. Will there be a hard truth Tyrion has accepted or denied?

[Blisscraft]

Ragnorak - I have exceeded my number of "likes" for today and it's still early here. Anyway, well done.

[brashcandy]

Great review Ragnorak :)

A couple things I wanted to highlight:

- Significant readings - this is now the second time we are given some information concerning Tyrion's readings. In the first chapter, his book is on the changing seasons, and now he's reading about dragons. Is there a thematic connection being forged in these early chapters between ice and fire? Perhaps important as well is that he borrows this book from Winterfell's library.

- Tyrion's pettiness and Lannister values - I found his slight resentment towards Benjen Stark to be a bit ridiculous, not to mention hypocritical, and I think this chapter gives us early signs of Tyrion's penchant for petty vindictiveness (the bearskin). When Benjen warns him about the harshness of the road, Tyrion gives one of his classic "witty" remarks, which probably do more harm than good in the long run:

"No doubt you'll find someplace to put me... As you might have noticed, I'm small."

Further, even though Tyrion is ostensibly "bonding" with the Starks on this trip, he's very much a proponent of Lannister values which offer a "stark" contrast:

The Lannisters never declined, graciously or otherwise. The Lannisters took what was offered.

- Tyrion's insecurities - He tells Jon earlier that you should never forget who you are, and to make your weakness your strength. This sounds like very sage advice, but Tyrion's constant harping in this chapter about his stunted legs and his twisted body reflects deep seated self esteem issues and belies the confident image he projected to Jon whilst at Winterfell. After Ghost's attack, we see that beneath Tyrion's cavalier demeanor, is a man acutely cognisant of his weaknesses, and capable of great resentment when those are exploited, even when it's arguable that he was in the wrong due to his provocation of Jon:

Tyrion Lannister felt the anger coiling inside him, and crushed it out with a will. It was not the first time in his life he had been humiliated, and it would not be the last. Perhaps he had even deserved this. "I should be very grateful for your kind assistance, Jon, he said, mildly."

Tyrion is caught between his innate sense of privilege as a Lannister, and his feelings of inferiority as a dwarf. The conflict can be quite damaging, both to himself and others.

[Ice Turtle]

The north went on forever.

Maybe it really does, who knows what is beyond the lands of always winter? There is something specific about the North, like with Assai I think that in good and bad the North is the place where magic never really died. And no man who was never there can understand that.

Few points more on topic:

+ I think Tyrion is unfair to Benjen, Benjen he is keeping actually snail's pace for him. Though I have no doubt that Benjen doesn't like Lannisters.

+ I wonder what happened to the books Tyrion takes with him. Did they stay at the Wall? I can imagine maester Aemon being interested in ones about dragons.

+ Tyrion remembers seeing dragon skulls, I think that the only other POV that has this experience is Arya, but especially the first event is very opposite - both felt as if the dragon skulls have consciousness, but Tyrion came with fire seeking them and the dragons liked that, Arya ran to them unawares in the darkness and felt as if something in that room that did not love her

+ Tyrion guess Jon to be twelve, for the future beware of Tyrion guessing how old someone is

+ I like that in the same chapter we have Jon claiming that there are no dragons and Tyrion claiming that NW is easy but useless job, clearly both know nothing

+Tyrion asking Jon if he never had any kin he imagined dying reminds me of Sandor asking Arya if she never had a brother she wanted to kill, I wonder what Jon really sees in that fire, but I think that at most it's Cat. I think that Jon's relationship with Robb was actually better than between Tyrion and Jaime

[Harlaw's Book]

Quote

Tyrion laughed. “You’re too smart to believe that. The Night’s Watch is a midden heap for all the misfits of the realm. I’ve seen you looking at Yoren and his boys. Those are your new brothers, Jon Snow, how do you like them? Sullen peasants, debtors, poachers, rapers, thieves, and bastards like you all wind up on the Wall, watching for grumkins and snarks and all the other monsters your wet nurse warned you about. The good part is there are no grumkins or snarks, so it’s scarcely dangerous work. The bad part is you freeze your balls off, but since you’re not allowed to breed anyway, I don’t suppose that matters.”

It definitely took me a reread to realize that Tyrion's view of the Night's Watch were just as skewed as Jon's. Both of them are parroting their families (father's) views on the Night Watch, and both of them are wrong. I think Tyrion's spiel to Jon is a factor in Jon's early behavior on the Wall. Once Jon realized the NW wasn't made up of Benjens, I think he swung too quickly into believing that Ned and Benjen lied, so Tyrion must be right. However, the truth is in the middle, which is what makes Donal Noye's lecture so important.

[Tagganaro]

Great review as always Ragnorak. I've had trouble getting started on the reread to keep up, but just wanted to say I love the image of Tyrion "getting Ned Stark's permission to borrow the book." That must have been quite a conversation that we can only imagine, based on what I'm sure would be a very suspicious reaction from the uptight and honorable to a fault Ned Stark being asked a favor by the exact opposite of him.

I also wanted to say on a general note (as has been mentioned), GRRM is really pulling out all the sympathy stops for Tyrion at this point. It'd be tough to read this and not be thinking to yourself "Tyrion is so awesome and cool and nice and smart." I do love the Tyrion/Jon Snow dynamic and interactions though. To possibly add to the symmetry, Tyrion/Jaime is probably quite a similar relationship to Jon/Robb, so they have that kind of affection for their "older" brothers going on to bond around.

[brashcandy]

To possibly add to the symmetry, Tyrion/Jaime is probably quite a similar relationship to Jon/Robb, so they have that kind of affection for their "older" brothers going on to bond around.

Yes, but unlike Tyrion, Jon's moral compass is definitely not pointed towards Winterfell (credit to Lummel) :) It's interesting to see how fairly easily Tyrion can read Jon's thoughts and emotions in contrast to his later inability with Sansa. And Sansa does see Yoren as well when he comes to KL and sympathises with Jon's experiences at the Watch.

[Tagganaro]

Yes, but unlike Tyrion, Jon's moral compass is definitely not pointed towards Winterfell (credit to Lummel) :) It's interesting to see how fairly easily Tyrion can read Jon's thoughts and emotions in contrast to his later inability with Sansa. And Sansa does see Yoren as well when he comes to KL and sympathises with Jon's experiences at the Watch.

Yes, but let's not compare Jon and Tyrion's "moral compasses" :cool4: . I think Tyrion tends to be spot on with most of his observations, unless they happen to involve a female who he is attracted to, in which case the Tyrion bullshit delusion-meter turns on.

[Winterfellian]

Thanks for the great review Ragnorak! Some random thoughts about this chapter:

Tyrion leaves Winterfell in the opposite direction from of his siblings. He is traveling North, a Stark direction, while the rest of his family travels South.

I think this expresses more of Tyrion's dual stand between right and wrong. At this early stage of the book most of us were associating the Starks as the good guys and the Lannisters as the bad ones. As a Lannister Tyrion is expected to choose to travel the Lannister path but he chose the Stark path north associated with righteousness. However he find this path to be hard to travel. He is no Stark that is confortable with doing what's right. His upbringing as a Lannister made him unconfortable in it but the fact that he willingly express a desire to intend to travel it sets him apart from the rest of his kin so far. In short, he's no Stark but but not quite the Lannister. He's someone in between.

About his interaction with Jon I find it very interesting and I like the concept of Projection Ragnorak brings forth. Is something I also noticed myself. I think there's a part of Tyrion that recognizes Jon as something similar to a kindred spirit:

“Well, no doubt the Starks have been terribly good to you. I’m certain Lady Stark treats you as if you were one of her own. And your brother Robb, he’s always been kind, and why not? He gets Winterfell and you get the Wall. And your father… he must have good reasons for packing you off to the Night’s Watch…”

This quote is full of Tyrion projecting his own dynamic with the Lannister family unto Jon's with the Starks.

Like the Kindness Tyrion is associating Jon to have received from The Starks he also acknowledges in this chapter that his kin treats him with kindness in comparison with other dwarves the same as the Starks treated Jon better in comparison with other bastards. Robb stands for Tyrion's own image of Jaime who though kind to Tyrion is clearly the trueborn son in Tywin's eye. I think both Catelyn and Ned are reflections of Tyrion's dynamic with his father. Like Catelyn, Tywin never does treats Tyrion as his own and he's associating Ned with a choosing a hard life for Jon the same as we learn later on how Tywin has made hard choices for him.

But like the case with many of Tyrion's misconceptions we see that it originates from him transfering his own experiences and desires on others like when he calls on Jon for desiring the death of the Starks. He thinks that because Jon is a bastard and an outcast he will automatically wish his family dead the same way he does and from Jon's later POVs we know that this is not the case.

[Ragnorak]

Great review Ragnorak :)

A couple things I wanted to highlight:

- Significant readings - this is now the second time we are given some information concerning Tyrion's readings. In the first chapter, his book is on the changing seasons, and now he's reading about dragons. Is there a thematic connection being forged in these early chapters between ice and fire? Perhaps important as well is that he borrows this book from Winterfell's library.

Thank you. At the end or each book I'll try and put together a list of all the books he reads because I think you are on to something here.

- Tyrion's insecurities - He tells Jon earlier that you should never forget who you are, and to make your weakness your strength. This sounds like very sage advice, but Tyrion's constant harping in this chapter about his stunted legs and his twisted body reflects deep seated self esteem issues and belies the confident image he projected to Jon whilst at Winterfell. After Ghost's attack, we see that beneath Tyrion's cavalier demeanor, is a man acutely cognisant of his weaknesses, and capable of great resentment when those are exploited, even when it's arguable that he was in the wrong due to his provocation of Jon:

I pondered this scene in particular wondering if it was out of character for Tyrion to forgive this. It is more of a private humiliation than a public one and I think this matters to Tyrion. In addition it is Ghost that does the actual humiliation act so it is only an indirect offense by Jon at best. Also no one laughs at him. I want to pay attention going forward to laughter (I suspect both his greatest strength and weakness) especially since it ties in to Tywin hating laughter making it a father/son dynamic. Can't remember when we get our first "Tywin hates laughter" information and I wonder if the timing will be meaningful.

ETA

@Winterfellian

He gets Winterfell and you get the Wall. And your father… he must have good reasons for packing you off to the Night’s Watch…”

I really like this observation. Some possible foreshadowing of Tywin offering Tyrion the Wall, also through an uncle, and I wonder if there is more meaning to "He gets Winterfell" knowing Tyrion is the unrecognized heir to the Rock.

[LordBloodraven]

Great, a Tyrion reread. It will be definitely interesting and I'm looking forward to it. Ragnorak, great analysis. The contrasted attitude of Tyrion towards Benjen and Jon is interesting. He sees the first more as a Stark and given the tensions since the sack of KL between the two Houses, he's kind of passive aggressive to him while Jon is more considered as an outcast with the same lot as him and the same naiveté at 14 years of age. He smashes Jon's delusions about the Night's Watch, something which should have been done way earlier by Ned and Benjen (although he tried).

Tyrion seems to have been really offended by Benjen telling him how hard and inhospitable the North is. I don't think that Ben tried to demean Tyrion but the latter seems to be quite prickly when his capabilities are questioned. We'll see more of this Tyrion pride in the later chapters but it's already latent in this chapter where he's mean to be sympathetic