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Theory on Maggy's prophecy and new definition for 'Volanqar'


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I hear a lot of theories on who the valonqar may be, but the only one to me that strikes me as being the best per set-up (and hopefully execution), is that Edmure Tully is the valonqar.




I remember reading his interaction with Jaime (the other suspect) in aFfC and smiling when it all came together.


"You will never know how sick it makes me to see you in this room, Kingslayer. You will never know how much I despise you."



On his way to Casterly Rock, Cercei most likely will end up there. It's just a matter of how he manages to do it without getting caught, if he cares so much about that.

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Thank you Ambi76. I thought it was second hand information. My personal theory is that it will be LittleFinger and the septa mistranslated-or the word has multiple meanings and she picked the wrong one. Sansa would be the new, more beautiful queen. LittleFinger is responsible for so much of the grief in Cersei's life. And he and Sansa are poised to cause her more.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I hear a lot of theories on who the valonqar may be, but the only one to me that strikes me as being the best per set-up (and hopefully execution), is that Edmure Tully is the valonqar.

I remember reading his interaction with Jaime (the other suspect) in aFfC and smiling when it all came together.

"You will never know how sick it makes me to see you in this room, Kingslayer. You will never know how much I despise you."

On his way to Casterly Rock, Cercei most likely will end up there. It's just a matter of how he manages to do it without getting caught, if he cares so much about that.

He may not even care if Roslin has a son.

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I can give you four "prophecy" paradigms from Literature/Ancient History:



1) Oepidus -- attempting to prevent the prophecy leads to its fulfillment


2) Cassandra -- clear/true prophecy ignored


3) Irony -- Croeseus -- "If you attack Persia, a great kingdom will fall," which was taken by Croeseus to mean the Persian Empire, but instead it was his own Lydian kingdom


4) Ambiguous -- Athens -- "By the Wooden Walls, you will prevail." They didn't know what that was supposed to mean, some thought it was the palisade encircling the acropolis, some thought it was the fleet. So, some Athenians (mostly the old men) defended the palisades, most rowed in the fleet.



I would judge the Cersei "Valonqar" prophecy to be a combo-burrito of Oepidus and Croeseus -- Jamie


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I guess I said it before but IMHO the term valonquar hints at the one who strangles her to have Valyrian blood.

- Jaime (if Cersei and Jaime are children of Aerys)

- Tyrion (if he is a son of Aerys)

- Stannis

- Daenerys (if valonquar is gender neutral)

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Just had a thought. What if Cersei, on hearing of Tommen and Myrcella's deaths, throws herself into the sea? (Assuming she's back at Casterly Rock by this point.) She literally drowns due to her tears and grief, but then becomes an undead water-Other and begins a reign of terror.



Euron, younger brother of Balon, chokes the unlife from her because the Summer Sea ain't big enough for the both of them.


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Being genderless in Old Valyrian Valonqar could mean Little Sister or Little Sis. Arya. Who, as a Faceless Man (or woman/girl -again they come from Old Valyria so it's really Faceless Person) will use the strangler poison to kill Cersei. She's done it before and it seems like a very common tool for assassination.

Dragon's are genderless in Old Valyrian, not everything. This is a huge, ridiculous leap into uncorroborated linguistic territory. We're told Valonqar means 'little brother', not 'little sister' or 'father'. The little brother, used in that fashion, more clearly points to Tyrion, the littlest brother in Westeros.

These theories are making less and less sense as this thread progresses.

The easiest, most obvious interpretation of this prophecy is that dwarf-sized little brother Tyrion is going to wrap his two, movable hands around Cersei's neck and wring the life out of her, as he's been fantasizing about doing all throughout Dance with Dragons. He even had some practice with Shae. Jaime couldn't choke a chicken, much less a human, with his golden pimp hand, and although he probably doesn't love Cersei that much anymore, he most certainly doesn't hate her enough to strangle her, and she's done nothing to evoke that level of hatred in him.

Cersei has self-fulfilled this entire prophecy: she antagonized and hated Robert so much that he spread his progeny far and wide, just not in her, and she turned toward her brother to produce her three golden-haired offspring. Then through her irrational persecution of her little (both in age and size) brother, she turned him into a homicidal, kinslayer bent on destroying her. Her hatred and paranoia of Margaery and her mistreatment of Sansa make both of them good candidates for the more beautiful queen to strike her down (Danerys might too), and her insanity, terrible parenting, and egregious incompetence when it comes to ruling will ensure that all three of her children bear the brunt of the wrath of Kings Landing when the shit starts truly hitting the fan there.

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Of course it's Jaime Lannister that gets to kill Cersei... Isn't that obvious?

Not as obvious as the even littler (size and agewise) brother Tyrion who's been fantasizing about killing her throughout Dance With Dragons. Jaime doesn't hate her enough to care about her, much less strangle her. Besides, his lack of two good strangling hands means he'd proably off her with a poorly executed sword strike or just knock her senseless with his golden pimp hand if he ever worked up enough hatred to kill her.

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On second thought, the Faith Militant will, after Cersei's trial, depose and possibly kill Tommen and Myrcella, if she's not already dead. Again, Cersei self-fulfilled this part of the prophecy by stupidly arming the Faith Militant.


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Guys, guys, it's clearly going to be the Damphair, taking revenge on his hated big bro Euron by killing Euron's newly wedded wife.

No, but seriously, it could be anyone. Westeros isn't known for single-child family planning; many players are younger siblings to someone, and valonquar might well be one of those Valyrian's expressions that are indeed gender-neutral. (Yeah, not all Valyrian expressions are. Doesn't mean that "dragon" is the only one that is. But no, pretty sure it doesn't mean "father". Or "second cousin twice removed" or whatever). Maybe it's the Hound, when he comes for Gregor and makes an end to Cersei's misery in the process. Maybe it's Edmure, why not. Or Loras, to avenge Margary. Or Trystane, to get rid of an inconvenient mother in law. Or Margary herself. Maybe it's Arya or Sansa or Dany, although I doubt they would have to get their hands dirty like that.

When evaluating the likelihood of various candidates, the potential for damatic irony seems like a safe a guide as any. The obvious dramatic irony lies in it being indeed one of her own brothers, turned against her per her own paranoia.

But I could see another potential irony at play. "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." - What if Cersei is already dead, or as good as dead, when the valonquar appears on the scene, and the strangling is a mercy-killing more than anything? Tears that drown someone don't necessarily have to be metaphorical - Cersei may well take those tears of Lys herself, when the situation is desperate enough. (She's about to do it on the show, when she thinks Stannis will conquer King's Landing, and is saved last minute by the appearance of her dad). "Pale white throat" to me screams zombie. My prediction: Cersei kills herself. FrankenCersei could be killed by anyone. (I don't think FrankenCersei is an entirely unlikely development, as long as she sticks with Qyburn).

That said, usually the obvious solution is also the likely one. So on those "what are your predictions for the next books"-threads, I always go with Jaime. Although I kinda agree that it would be a setback for his character development to kill her out of resentment, because it would clearly signify that he still isn't over her after all. The same applies to Tyrion, who should be too busy saving the world from bigger threats at this point.

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Unabashed Stark lover. I hope it's Rickon. That guy has the makings of a real dick.



Then I hope he deals with her Skaagos-style, with fava beans and a nice Arbor gold.



I would love for Cersei to end up in Casterly Rock and be done in by Edmure, but I think with Kevan dead she will remain in KL.



Other than that, the pale white neck reference could be contrasted with dark hands, like perhaps those of a shadow. Perhaps Stannis's final undoing is to sacrifice himself of kill Cersei.


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