Haven - (Syfy - Imagine Spoilers)

[Horus Ex Machina]

Interesting episode. Very nicely done. Except I'm wondering how Agent Howard got by in the 50s. Seriously Sarah/Audrey didn't suspect a thing? So apparently Agent Howard is immortal too. Sooo what is up with those two. Is she not human? Is he?

[The Iceman of the North]

Agent Howard appears to be the agent created by whatever causing the trouble, who's purpose is to place the Audreys in Haven at the right time.

ETA: If the curse theory is correct, I guess he's meant to be some apparition of evil, rather than representing someone who actually lived. This I base solely on the colour of his sin.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Agent Howard appears to be the agent created by whatever causing the trouble, who's purpose is to place the Audreys in Haven at the right time.

ETA: If the curse theory is correct, I guess he's meant to be some apparition of evil, rather than representing someone who actually lived. This I base solely on the colour of his sin.

I'll be pissed if it turns out to be a knock-off of the Matrix.

[Kobayashi Maru]

I loved this episode. I can even overlook telenovela plot ( yo soy padre del tu hijo! ) I'm the father of your son which we made in the past when I was time traveling last week. But I liked it anyway. Love how plot is getting more and more complex.

@ Horus Bergeron your theory is proving to be right. We found out one little speck of information and we still have whole iceberg to unravel.

We did see how two brothers met Audrey. We found out Duke is troubled (big surprise three :) ), and we found out who is the father of Colorado Kid. But WHY??? is bolt gun killer after him,how he knows he's alive,and if he is alive why is he not in Haven? If he has Audrey's trouble (if she is troubled) is he time-traveling and disappearing every 27 years? And only few episodes left. I am embarrassed how hooked I am. And cabin starting to appear in the mist is just creepy.

[Horus Ex Machina]

I'm not so sure that Audrey is troubled anymore in the way that the other citizens of Haven are troubled, unless she and "Howard" are related. It's clear that Agent Howard also doesn't age and pops up around the same time that Audrey does. So three theories emerge, either they're aliens experimenting on Havenites, angels helping with the Troubles, or they're witches who caused the Troubles.

One thing is, either it only affects Havenites and those Havenites who've moved throughout the country, or Troubled families have purposely been relocated to Haven due to it's remote location. We saw in this episode that in the alternate reality Troubled ppl are being smuggled out of the city. Interestingly enough, the Guard, seems willing to help Audrey as though she herself were troubled, whereas in the real reality they are wary of Audrey.

So that doppleganger id exists, but then again, the Crockers are also Troubled yet reviled by the Guard. So is Audrey neutral? Was she a friend to the Guard. Did they respect her for killing Duke's grandfather even though it wasn't really her idea? Are they suspicious of her now bc she's friends with Duke? Or bc they know that she used Duke to kill a troubled person? Do they know the Crocker reputation was originally created unwillingly? Alot of questions.

[Kobayashi Maru]

I'm not so sure that Audrey is troubled anymore in the way that the other citizens of Haven are troubled, unless she and "Howard" are related. It's clear that Agent Howard also doesn't age and pops up around the same time that Audrey does. So three theories emerge, either they're aliens experimenting on Havenites, angels helping with the Troubles, or they're witches who caused the Troubles.

I like the witches theory the most. Aliens would be a big disappointment for me. I'm still inclined to curse that keeps them connected to Haven theory. They did something in their past and this is their penance.

One thing is, either it only affects Havenites and those Havenites who've moved throughout the country, or Troubled families have purposely been relocated to Haven due to it's remote location. We saw in this episode that in the alternate reality Troubled ppl are being smuggled out of the city. Interestingly enough, the Guard, seems willing to help Audrey as though she herself were troubled, whereas in the real reality they are wary of Audrey.

This confuses me a bit. In the beginning of the series we were led to believe troubles are specifically connected to Haven and Haven alone and now we see troubled people all around US having a network of their own. They even smuggled couple of those guys in from somewhere else (the guy Nathan helped escape) so now I'm wondering do you have to be from Haven(for example to be born there) to be troubled or it doesn't matter as long as your family is from Haven (you are born in some other city but your family lived in Haven for generations) is it nationwide...?Do the troubles kick in even if you are not in Haven at the moment they return?

So that doppleganger id exists, but then again, the Crockers are also Troubled yet reviled by the Guard. So is Audrey neutral? Was she a friend to the Guard. Did they respect her for killing Duke's grandfather even though it wasn't really her idea? Are they suspicious of her now bc she's friends with Duke? Or bc they know that she used Duke to kill a troubled person? Do they know the Crocker reputation was originally created unwillingly? Alot of questions.

I don't know how much the Guard really knows about Audrey and Duke's involvement in the killing.Did they say something to someone? I was under the impression it was just between them. You are wright a lot of questions and season is nearly over.

Also,I find brothers to be very shady. Why aren't they saying anything,you have to pull words out of their mouth by force. And if they were Audrey's friends in the past (Sarah's friends) why are they so reluctant to tell her anything? I have a feeling these two know much more than we were led to believe.

[Horus Ex Machina]

There's a fourth theory that just occurred to me. They could be from the future. It is interesting to note that some part of every single theory of Audrey and Howard's true nature (outside of witchcraft of some sort although it could be said that many of the Troubled cases exhibit a form of witchcraft in one form or another. And there was Nathan's first Quebecois gf) has manifested as a Trouble of some sort. Does that make any of them more or less likely.

[Kobayashi Maru]

There's a third theory that just occurred to me. They could be from the future. It is interesting to not that some part of every single theory of Audrey and Howard's true nature (outside of witchcraft of some sort although it could be said that many of the Troubled cases exhibit a form of witchcraft in one form or another. And there was Nathan's first Quebecois gf) has manifested as a Trouble of some sort. Does that make any or none of them more or less likely.

From the future,do you meen like 4400? They are sent back to try to fix the future. But why no memories every time?

[scotcat]

But why no memories every time?

I've been thinking about that. I think audrey's given a personality/memories that best fit in with the current timeframe. Also, maybe her memories are completely wiped because of something she does or doesn't do at the end of each cycle.

[Kobayashi Maru]

I've been thinking about that. I think audrey's given a personality/memories that best fit in with the current timeframe. Also, maybe her memories are completely wiped because of something she does or doesn't do at the end of each cycle.

Hmmm interesting. So she completes or doesn't complete the cycle,let's say and that afects her memories. Or she is maybe stuck in some kind of loope which is activated when the troubles kick in. But what activates them? Do they start because Audrey reapeared somewhere or she reaperes when troubles start ?

[Horus Ex Machina]

I've been thinking about that. I think audrey's given a personality/memories that best fit in with the current timeframe. Also, maybe her memories are completely wiped because of something she does or doesn't do at the end of each cycle.

This is a good point. Audrey's persona is pretty time-appropriate. An army nurse granted her as much access and training as was possible for a woman in the 1950's. And a black man in a military uniform was just about the only way Agent Howard would have ever gotten around without being harassed in most situations. The current Audrey is an FBI agent. Which put's her in Haven with even more appropriate training and access to information that the real Audrey knew than ever before.

Her memories are probably wiped because of her knowledge at the end of each cycle. Audrey as Lucy said that she knew how to stop the Troubles by the end of the last cycle. And she said they were after her bc of it. But it always coincides with the Hunter comet. Why?

Besides that, I would be easier to blend in initially as a new person each time, even though many "in the know" already recognize her each time she returns.

[Kobayashi Maru]

This is a good point. Audrey's persona is pretty time-appropriate. An army nurse granted her as much access and training as was possible for a woman in the 1950's. And a black man in a military uniform was just about the only way Agent Howard would have ever gotten around without being harassed in most situations. The current Audrey is an FBI agent. Which put's her in Haven with even more appropriate training and access to information that the real Audrey knew than ever before.

Her memories are probably wiped because of her knowledge at the end of each cycle. Audrey as Lucy said that she knew how to stop the Troubles by the end of the last cycle. And she said they were after her bc of it. But it always coincides with the Hunter comet. Why?

If we asume time traveling is correct maybe the comet cycle got something to do with enabeling her to travel back to past,it opens a portal,a hole or somethig like that. But if somebody doesn't want her to stop the troubles this is more suportive of troubles being some sort of a punishment theory. Like a curse that punishes them for something they did. Maybe it has to do something with witches maybe it's religious thing,Haven is some sort of purgatory.

Besides that, I would be easier to blend in initially as a new person each time, even though many "in the know" already recognize her each time she returns.

And not just her,remember,Nathan's dad knew agent Howard. We were even led to belive he was the one who called him and asked for help. I think they met when Audrey was Lucie and he helped her get into town. Was he a fbi agent then? What would work in seventies ?

[Horus Ex Machina]

And not just her,remember,Nathan's dad knew agent Howard. We were even led to belive he was the one who called him and asked for help. I think they met when Audrey was Lucie and he helped her get into town. Was he a fbi agent then?

What would work in seventies ?

It was actually the early 80's, but we haven't been shown what Lucy Ripley's occupation was despite being shown the type of woman that she was. She was middle aged, vibrant (she was shown fishing when Audrey met her for the "first"time), and independent (she lived alone with no sign of any family). So Audrey would have then had a similar personality and be very shocked to learn that she had a fully grown son. As for her occupation, since it would have been the same as the real Lucy, I'm guessing that it would be something that would allow her to maintain her independence and in the 80's many opportunities were starting to open up for women. Lucy Ripley being a seemingly independent and vibrant woman who never got married,... I'd guess a doctor as a logical progression from her 50's career as a nurse.

As for Nathan's dad, while Agent Howard may have met him in the 80's, but he was a young boy in the 50's and had just met Nathan as an adult which gave him the goal of becoming a police officer. So who called Audrey the first time? The brothers? Also Nathan's dad was probably a cop in the 80s, but he probably wasn't the chief yet. So someone would have coopted him into the whole thing. So was it the Guard who was calling Audrey back then? And why do they not trust her anymore if that's the case?

If we asume time traveling is correct maybe the comet cycle got something to do with enabeling her to travel back to past,it opens a portal,a hole or somethig like that. But if somebody doesn't want her to stop the troubles this is more suportive of troubles being some sort of a punishment theory. Like a curse that punishes them for something they did. Maybe it has to do something with witches maybe it's religious thing,Haven is some sort of purgatory.

Perhaps the comet's passing coincides with a spacial anomaly that opens a wormhole that remains open until the next cycle.

I like the witches theory the most. Aliens would be a big disappointment for me. I'm still inclined to curse that keeps them connected to Haven theory. They did something in their past and this is their penance.

This confuses me a bit. In the beginning of the series we were led to believe troubles are specifically connected to Haven and Haven alone and now we see troubled people all around US having a network of their own. They even smuggled couple of those guys in from somewhere else (the guy Nathan helped escape) so now I'm wondering do you have to be from Haven(for example to be born there) to be troubled or it doesn't matter as long as your family is from Haven (you are born in some other city but your family lived in Haven for generations) is it nationwide...?Do the troubles kick in even if you are not in Haven at the moment they return?

This season has seemingly created more questions than it's answered. It's unraveled a whole lot about Audrey's past and the town's history and present, but all that's done is reveal how little makes sense with absolutely no clue as to the nature of the situation. And we still don't know who or what Audrey and Agent Howard are.

I don't know how much the Guard really knows about Audrey and Duke's involvement in the killing.Did they say something to someone? I was under the impression it was just between them. You are wright a lot of questions and season is nearly over.

Also,I find brothers to be very shady. Why aren't they saying anything,you have to pull words out of their mouth by force. And if they were Audrey's friends in the past (Sarah's friends) why are they so reluctant to tell her anything? I have a feeling these two know much more than we were led to believe.

The Guard is either very well informed or completely insulated and unaware of anything that Audrey is doing. Irregardless their view of Audrey is ambiguous at best. Regardless, it's impossible that they don't know that Audrey keeps reappearing as the same person. An organization that sophisticated has to have someone in it who's smart enough to tie that thread together. As for what Audrey and Duke did, it would seem that they might not know what went down, but they may know that Audrey brought him with her on that case, that the man died, and his trouble died with him. That's all they need to know to understand what probably went down.

It's frustrating. We know alot more about Audrey and Haven, but even less about what's going on. And the fact that the brothers definitely know more is equally frustrating. Remember their convo with the BG Killer? And where did he go all of a sudden?

Syfy is already ordering a 4th season, but they've also said (apparently) that all of Audrey's mysteries get solved this season. So we'll know it all once the Hunter comes.

[Kobayashi Maru]

As for Nathan's dad, while Agent Howard may have met him in the 80's, but he was a young boy in the 50's and had just met Nathan as an adult which gave him the goal of becoming a police officer. So who called Audrey the first time? The brothers? Also Nathan's dad was probably a cop in the 80s, but he probably wasn't the chief yet. So someone would have coopted him into the whole thing. So was it the Guard who was calling Audrey back then? And why do they not trust her anymore if that's the case?

Brothers are shady at best. They did appear to know much more while BK was interrogating them. I'm not sure they called her in the firs place though. In the last episode it appeared it was actually Nathan the one who sent her to them and they didn't know her before. This of course doesn't mean they didn't know Howard as well. They might have called him asking for help and he sent Audrey. But that doesn't explain why Howard didn't contact brothers when she was coming to town this time in stead of Nathan's dad. Did they separate on unfriendly terms last time or he isn't working with them at all?

Perhaps the comet's passing coincides with a spacial anomaly that opens a wormhole that remains open until the next cycle.

This is very X filey solution to the mystery :)

This season has seemingly created more questions than it's answered. It's unraveled a whole lot about Audrey's past and the town's history and present, but all that's done is reveal how little makes sense with absolutely no clue as to the nature of the situation. And we still don't know who or what Audrey and Agent Howard are.

I agree. They gave us so much more information only to make secrets even more complicated. When we started we had troubles and that was it. Then Audrey was shown to have some connection to them and she was shown appearing at the site of Colorado kid murder. Now we know how she's connected to the troubles (she solves them in some way,she helps) we know who was CK (her son) and we even know who was his father (Nathan) but we have three new questions for every answered. Why she disappears? Why she hasen't got any memories and agent Howard has.What caused the troubles in the first place and why is she connected to them? What do brothers know?Why aren't they saying more?

If memory loss is to prevent her from let's say overloading why Howard remembers everything? Wouldn't it be more helpful if she knew everything from the beginning so she can help more and not loose her time (and she doesn't have much time) on figuring things out over and over again? This is mostly why I think it's a curse,she's not supposed to help,she's supposed to get close to it but never to stop the troubles. And this is all to punish/torture her and the people of Haven. It reminds me of fairy tales,how evil queen/witch puts curse on someone but in the last minute fairy godmother manages to help in some small way by showing a way out (princess is a sleep in the tower but fairy says there is still hope because there's a potion/countercurse etc). The ppl of Haven were punished for something and they were cursed to have these affliction that would trouble them for generations but they somehow found a loophole and one of them has trouble who stops the troubles while other one has trouble that helps solve other troubles (for example)

It's frustrating. We know alot more about Audrey and Haven, but even less about what's going on. And the fact that the brothers definitely know more is equally frustrating. Remember their convo with the BG Killer? And where did he go all of a sudden?

I must admit I cheated a little and I read episodes summaries on IMDB

There is mention of Audrey encountering BGK in one of the episodes to come. So his story is far from over. If theory about him being a shapeshifter is true and it is more and more likely it is with every episode then I believe he is hiding in plane sight disguised like someone from the town.

Syfy is already ordering a 4th season, but they've also said (apparently) that all of Audrey's mysteries get solved this season. So we'll know it all once the Hunter comes.

Solved like SOLVED or solved like Lost solved? :)

[Kobayashi Maru]

@ Horus Bergeron

You were right :) now tell me what you think about ASoIaF? How do YOU think it'll end? :)

It was ok episode,not many edge of the seat moments but I think this one was meant to shed some light on previous events. It didn't reveal much though,except for identity of BGK which we kind of guessed already. We do know why guard is not so fond of Audrey. She refused to get in to the cabin and we all know it was because of her son. Still,question remains where is he,why BGK is after him and how all this is related to the origin of the troubles.

I was a bit disappointed Nathan didn't say anything to Audrey about their little beach encounter. He must know there's at least a possibility Colorado kid is his child. Why not tell her?

[Horus Ex Machina]

@ Horus Bergeron

You were right now tell me what you think about ASoIaF? How do YOU think it'll end?

It's pretty much the only guess that I've had so far that's turned out to be right. And I actually thought that the guy was similar to the shapeshifter from season 2. So this is a bit of a change. At any rate, it made sense. Tommy being the real BGK would have been somewhat sloppy storytelling.

It would be pretty freaky if it turned out that the BGK had killed Nathan and was talking to her right there.

Though I doubt it. Sadly it's probably the shrink, who I like btw. As for the beach encounter, not much reason for ol' Nat to bring it up right now. Right now we've gotten more info about the BGK and Audrey.than we've ever had before. But we still don't know where the CK fits into all of this. So whatever Nathan did, will likely wait for the last episode. I'm almost finding myself hoping that she goes into the barn. I think that that's where the real Audrey went when she lost her memory. But we know that her memory loss was entirely complete, just like Audrey's memories from her earlier incarnations are coming back. What's interesting is that Jordan claims that the Guard has been around for a long time. I guess that means that Audrey has been around longer than just Sarah perhaps. Or perhaps Sarah was a successor to another completely different person. It is interesting that the Guard is against Crocker for what he can do, but has no problem sacrificing Audrey over and again.

Good episode. We're getting close!

[Kobayashi Maru]

Nah, Nathan is Nathan,no way he's dead,this isn't GoT. Psych girl on the other hand just might be. I wouldn't mind much,I don't like her. I blame it all on the acting,it's so bad. She acts like a teenager in a highschool play.

Wright now I'm most interested in that barn. Original Audrey suffered the same thing that happenes to Audrey every time so she lost her memorie,she's not Audrey and under her let's say curse so I don't think memory loss was permanent.

Maybe Nathan is just waiting for the right moment to tell her. I would expect it to come out before season is over.

I would like to see inside of the barn too but i think it would be hoping too much. I somehow imagine it looks like Twin peaks cabine.

I asumed Audrey was there from the beginning of the troubles. When they started she got into this limbo and can't bet out,always trying to help the troubled. I'm also curious to see what would happen if Duke touched her blood.

[Horus Ex Machina]

I'm also curious to see what would happen if Duke touched her blood.

Good point. I question whether or not she actually is one of them or something different. For one thing, Agent Howard is also "unaging" (I don't want to use the word immortal bc I'm not quite certain that that's truly what we're dealing with here) so is Audrey really unique? Also she has a son, what will he be like? I kinda hope she walks into the barn and we find out what happens to Audrey when she leaves, but in another way it seems like it would end all suspense about Audrey and end the Troubles as well. What will they do with a potential 4th season, set it 27 years in the future?

[Kobayashi Maru]

If she's troubled I would think CK is going to be also. Though he could inherit Nathe's trouble not Audrey's. If we ever meet him and he shows some signs he doesn't feel pane or if he's still in his twenties we'll know. If she's not troubled but special question is will it be limited only to her or will it be heredetary. I'm more and more sure we'll meet him at some point since he is still alive somewhere. I only hope we wont get clifhanger ending of Audrey entering the barn turning around and saying" it's you" and...cut. This would be too much. My theory and a bit of a wish is for her to find barn enter it and find out all about the troubles(giving us some answer finally) but in stead of going through with it(another 27 y gap) she decides to come back and fight it. I don't see her 27 years in the future. I think they can make decent season 4 and even maybe 5 of them trying to stop the troubles for good.

[Kobayashi Maru]

TBK is making Audrey. I had this feeling from couple of episodes back but now I'm certain. Why,I have no idea. It's not like he could trick the barn in thinking he's Audrey.It didn't work for real Audrey. Maybe he want's to have some insurance in case she doesn't want to go in again.