Where Boars Glow Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 So i have been thinking lately about Tywin Lanister and how he was able to keep the Red Wedding and several other wicked plots within plots secret.What if Rhaegars plan to take the throne from his father included Tywin. What if he for religeous reasons (Prince who was Promised) or Love of Lyianna was actually complicent in what happened to his wife (Ala Henry VIII) He knew Elia couldn't have any more children. "The Dragon has three heads, there must be one more"Barriston: "Able. That above all. Determined, deliberate, dutiful, single-minded".This sounds more to me like Tywins way of thinking.Jamie's fevor dreams Rhaegar tells him "I left my wife and children in your hands"Jamie then replies something like I never thought he would hurt them.Tywin i know doesn't bring house Lannister to the rebellion until after Rhaegars death. Maybe thats when the plan changed and Tywin hedged his bets by killing the children for Robert. Is it possible that Rhaegar wasn't this paragon we often hear characters speak of and instead meant to murder his wife so that he could have another legitamit child and fufill the prophecy he was obsessed with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladybug196591 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Now that's a total crackpot. But then again, who knows??? GRMM is not our typical epic saga writer....there is a cornucopia of deceit, evil, betrayal, espionage in all of his ASOIAF books soo..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 It's crackpot, but I like it.I personally think that Rhaegar was motivated not out of love, but out of the usual Targ madness about his destiny - the prophecies of the AA / PTWP. He was willing to cast Elia aside and endanger, but for a woman (like Uther) ? That's the romantics' view, the simpler view. But I see something more, something deeper. Hubris in the crown prince, first that he could steal Lyanna and dump his wife, without repercussions, but perhaps second, that he was destined to father the AA or perhaps was somehow invincible due to the prophecy.Did he call the tournament at Harrenhal because he thought it was central to his destiny ? He was likely making plans to depose his father, so why suddenly wreck all that by running off with some northern girl in that way? Why protect her with 3 of your best KIngsguard, at some faraway place, unless you thought she was the key to everything ?We don't know. Dany's dreams about him give us a clue about Rhaegar and his focus on prophecy (which was perhaps no less mad than Aerys, in the end). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where Boars Glow Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 It's crackpot, but I like it.I personally think that Rhaegar was motivated not out of love, but out of the usual Targ madness about his destiny - the prophecies of the AA / PTWP. He was willing to cast Elia aside and endanger, but for a woman (like Uther) ? That's the romantics' view, the simpler view. But I see something more, something deeper. Hubris in the crown prince, first that he could steal Lyanna and dump his wife, without repercussions, but perhaps second, that he was destined to father the AA or perhaps was somehow invincible due to the prophecy.Did he call the tournament at Harrenhal because he thought it was central to his destiny ? He was likely making plans to depose his father, so why suddenly wreck all that by running off with some northern girl in that way? Why protect her with 3 of your best KIngsguard, at some faraway place, unless you thought she was the key to everything ?We don't know. Dany's dreams about him give us a clue about Rhaegar and his focus on prophecy (which was perhaps no less mad than Aerys, in the end).More and more when i read about him I think ZEALOT. I think he really was a kind of religeos fanatic and envisioned himself the key to his own religeon. I posted on someone elses theory how I think he may have grabed Lyanna as a kidnapping in the first place....but then like a child taken by a cult she started drinking the Koolaide and by the time Eddard got there to rescue her....he was also obcessed that this child she had birthed was AA or the Prince who was promised and made Ned promise to save him.Maybe Rhaegar really is the Prince who was promised.....and Jon Snow is lightbringer born of the blood sacrifice of Lyanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I hope there's more between Lyanna and Rhaegar than Stockholm Syndrome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where Boars Glow Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 I hope there's more between Lyanna and Rhaegar than Stockholm Syndrome.You think the romance angle is more likely between a 27 year old man and a 15 year old girl who was whisk away from her family?Again both are possible....but the more i use occam's razor on this...the more Rhaegar seems a bit nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 You think the romance angle is more likely between a 27 year old man and a 15 year old girl who was whisk away from her family?Again both are possible....but the more i use occam's razor on this...the more Rhaegar seems a bit nuts.By 'more between', I don't necesarily mean that they were in love, just that the idea of Lyanna being brainwashed by a pretty-boy prince runs counter to all I think I know of Lyanna (that she's a headstrong and intelligent individualist -- an earlier incarnation of Arya). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where Boars Glow Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 By 'more between', I don't necesarily mean that they were in love, just that the idea of Lyanna being brainwashed by a pretty-boy prince runs counter to all I think I know of Lyanna (that she's a headstrong and intelligent individualist -- an earlier incarnation of Arya).I am with you.....but are you reffering to the same Arya who is currently being inducted into a cult? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I am with you.....but are you reffering to the same Arya who is currently being inducted into a cult? :)Ha. Very true.(When push comes to shove, she's going to grab Needle and shove-off. I think.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where Boars Glow Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 Ha. Very true.(When push comes to shove, she's going to grab Needle and shove-off. I think.)Let us hope so. She has unfinished buisness in Kings Landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manderly Chef Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Queen Cersei, Iln Payne, Valar Morghulis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Pudding Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 If Rhaegar was willing to become king, he needed Tywin's help. Of course, not only his help, but from other great lords too (the main reason for the Harrenhal tourney, as we "know"). I know that's possible that Tywin was a huge ally, but I can't see hints of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkSupporter Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Of course Rhaegar embodies everything that is evil and wrong, he is a Targaryen after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Flandrensis Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 So i have been thinking lately about Tywin Lanister and how he was able to keep the Red Wedding and several other wicked plots within plots secret.What if Rhaegars plan to take the throne from his father included Tywin. What if he for religeous reasons (Prince who was Promised) or Love of Lyianna was actually complicent in what happened to his wife (Ala Henry VIII) He knew Elia couldn't have any more children. "The Dragon has three heads, there must be one more"Barriston: "Able. That above all. Determined, deliberate, dutiful, single-minded".This sounds more to me like Tywins way of thinking.Jamie's fevor dreams Rhaegar tells him "I left my wife and children in your hands"Jamie then replies something like I never thought he would hurt them.Tywin i know doesn't bring house Lannister to the rebellion until after Rhaegars death. Maybe thats when the plan changed and Tywin hedged his bets by killing the children for Robert. Is it possible that Rhaegar wasn't this paragon we often hear characters speak of and instead meant to murder his wife so that he could have another legitamit child and fufill the prophecy he was obsessed with?It seemed everyone went to automatic-like of Rhaegar (because he maybe Jon's daddy? because maybe he didn't rape Lyanna?) without considering things he did. He did some nasty, and we don't know tout about him. It puzzles me why so many people think he's wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Does the prophecy specify legitimate children? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manderly Chef Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 people think he's wonderful because people in the story think he's wonderful. makes you wonder why there's all this legend built up around Rhaegar. Barristan doesn't seem to buy the whole Rhaegar legend though which is really interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of Judah Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I find this difficult to grasp simply honestly simply because other than Robert everyone seems to have an exceptional opinion of Rhaegar. What he did was shocking and uncharacteristic, maybe even selfish, but evil...nah. On both sides of the lines people think fondly of him, from Jamie to Ned to Jorah to Barristan to Cersi. They all give us insight into Rhaegar's true self and by their accounts I must conclude he is far from the embodiment of evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Leaving your wife and kids while you go to Dorne with some teenage girl?Why is it that Robert is ripped on for his parenting skills when Rhaegar left his kids behind for some ass? DOUBLE STANDARD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna Stark Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Rhaegar did not leave his children behind in kings landing, that was Aerys' command so Dorne would not join the rebellion. Rhaegar had no say in that.Further, Rhaegar was 22-23 and Lyanna 14-15. Which btw is a smaller age limit than between Dany/ Drogo and Jaime/Brienne for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kephv Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 How old is Brienne? I don't think it's even been indirectly hinted at how old she is.I always just pictured her in her earlier 20s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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