Crackpot: What if Rhaegar is the embodiment of all that is evil?

[franko99]

LOL...

I think Rhaegar was a puzzling individual honestly, the fact that he was a musician didn't seem to sit well with some. I believe it was Jorah Mormont that said (paraphrase) "he could have been great at anything he wanted and could handle a sword but his true passion was for music." I just can't picture many musicians who are the embodiment of evil. Charles Manson/ Marilyn Manson maybe, but Charles Manson is only a musician because he says so and Marilyn Manson is a gimmick.

Had you ever heard of Nero??

[Where Boars Glow]

Yes, but lets see who they are:

Ned: The same Ned who though LF was a good confident? The same Ned who also trusted Varys (about the "who killed Jon Arryn?" thing) Ned wasn't the best at judging characters...

Cersei: Who only speaks high of him because of his look, and because he was the prince who can make her a Queen. She didn't give a damn about Rhaegar per se

Viserys: Do I need to say more?

Jorah: only compliment the fact that he wasn't a coward (also the quote make Rhaegar look a bitt as a fool don't you think?) "he fight with honor, and he is dead"

Barristan: He speaks good of Rhaegar, just like he speaks good of Aerys's first years in power, a charismatic guys, but a bit mad

Jon C: he was in love of him, his opinion is biased about Rhaegar.

From all the people above, I would only trust Jaime's opinion, and he only compliment him as a fighter (which is all Jaime would care) and he also held Rhaegar in steem because of guilt for not saving Elia and the childrens

Yes those were all the points i hit in my responce :)

[Septa Mary Frances]

I love this theory because I've always thought there was something wrong with the common acceptance of Rhaegar, perfectly perfect in every way.

In fact, I'll double down- what if Rhaegar was the one who was actually behind the way Aerys' offness turned into violent madness? He persuaded his father that the prophecy was true and got him to do the dirty work of fire sacrifices Rhaegar thought necessary to bring about the PTWP. It's notable that Chelsted got burned alive but Rhaegar's friend JonCon didn't get the same treatment when he screwed up as Hand of the King.

It's said Duskendale started Aerys' slide into complete crazy, and it probably contributed. But wasn't that around when Rhaegar was 16 or so, old enough to be having an influence?

Maybe Aerys, in a last gasp of rationality, was actually trying to do his onetime friend Tywin and his onetime crush Joanna a favor by finding a reason to keep their little girl away from Prince CrazyPants. Who gives a little lion to a lunatic reading up on Azor Azai?

[Where Boars Glow]

I love this theory because I've always thought there was something wrong with the common acceptance of Rhaegar, perfectly perfect in every way.

In fact, I'll double down- what if Rhaegar was the one who was actually behind the way Aerys' offness turned into violent madness? He persuaded his father that the prophecy was true and got him to do the dirty work of fire sacrifices Rhaegar thought necessary to bring about the PTWP. It's notable that Chelsted got burned alive but Rhaegar's friend JonCon didn't get the same treatment when he screwed up as Hand of the King.

It's said Duskendale started Aerys' slide into complete crazy, and it probably contributed. But wasn't that around when Rhaegar was 16 or so, old enough to be having an influence?

Maybe Aerys, in a last gasp of rationality, was actually trying to do his onetime friend Tywin and his onetime crush Joanna a favor by finding a reason to keep their little girl away from Prince CrazyPants. Who gives a little lion to a lunatic reading up on Azor Azai?

Also to help his father look crazy Rhaegar could have been in it with Varys feeding him conspiracies and making him look crazier and crazier for the day when he would declare him incompetent and take the kingship.

[Roxy]

Had you ever heard of Nero??

Thank you! I will genuinely never understand why Rhaegar being a musician is ever brought up when debating whether or not he was a kidnapper and rapist. His hobby is not a valid argument.

[Commander Jon Snow]

I think Rhaegar was the craziest person in this series. I think his goal was to actually help the Others instead of defeat them. That's why he was so obsessed with the prophecy. He was going to sacrifice the three heads so the Others would be unbeatable.

Good thing Ol Bobby B caved his chest in

[Snake Eyes]

You think the romance angle is more likely between a 27 year old man and a 15 year old girl who was whisk away from her family?

Again both are possible....but the more i use occam's razor on this...the more Rhaegar seems a bit nuts.

Why does him being 27 and her being 15 matter? In the GRRM universe if a female flowers than she's a woman, and fit to be married. That also was the way it was here until recently.

[OberynBlackfyre]

I think it's very true that Rhaegar wasn't necessarily the embodiment of good, however for him to be evil and deceitful is a stretch and something that wouldn't really bring anything to the story at this point. There has to be good guys (Rhaegar), and there has to be bad guys (IE: The Mountain).

[Where Boars Glow]

I think it's very true that Rhaegar wasn't necessarily the embodiment of good, however for him to be evil and deceitful is a stretch and something that wouldn't really bring anything to the story at this point. There has to be good guys (Rhaegar), and there has to be bad guys (IE: The Mountain).

There are plenty of good guys? Quite a few more human characters that try and do well and make mistakes. Very few Bad guys. Mountain is really the only irredeamable monster in the books i can think of. Even Walder Frey at least cares about his family in some sick weasel way.

I put crackpot in the title. :) Just trying to say i think ALOT of people are taking for granted that Rhaegar is like Ned Stark.....i am suggesting this is not the case. It is also possible he is a supreme mastermind of evil. He may have had an elaborate plot to take over everything and was just really good at PR.

[Aelos]

This is all so wrong, people assuming character traits and those who say others can't.. actually do the same.

All we have are opinions about a (possible) introvert man that found comfort in playing tragic songs on the ruin of Summerhall.

Personally (and please don't take these as facts) I'd say Rhaegar would have been a lot like the young Aegon 'The Unworthy' and the Targaryens who seemed rational and fair (Egg) but died at the weird 'let's reawaken dragons by burning the place down' tragedy at Summerhall.

The whole 'Rhaeger was Mad' does not fit for me.. the opinions of those around him should have been different. I also wonder why the opinion of Eddard Stark matters so much, did he ever really meet Rhaeger? Isn't he just basing it on stories and the (possible) love his sister had for the purple eyed prince?

[para]

The rose-colored people seem to have of him have probably a lot to do with Robert (and everyone afterwards) being such a disappointment. He went from the Prince Who Died to the King Who Could Have Been Great in everyone's memory. Whether he would have been actually great is whole other question but the fact that he went about the Lyanna affair in such a undiplomatic way and thought the best way to face Robert was open battle suggest that he did not have the best tactical thinking.

[Rheagar Prime]

i like it and i'm a rhaegar fan.

[Flig]

She was 17-18 when the series started. Jaime was into his 30s. Approx. 15 years difference between the two. Jaime is 36 as of AFFC.

I don't mean to split hairs here, and I realize the conversation has moved past this point, but I'm curious, where are you getting Brienne's age from? I don't remember any reference in the book, and neither the online wiki nor the official app have an age. I had always assumed Jaime and Brienne were somewhere in the same age bracket.

[orys baratheon no.2]

Leaving your wife and kids while you go to Dorne with some teenage girl?

Why is it that Robert is ripped on for his parenting skills when Rhaegar left his kids behind for some ass? DOUBLE STANDARD!

85% of the female forum users are the main reason why he is so popular.(white knight syndrome)

[Batman]

85% of the female forum users are the main reason why he is so popular.(white knight syndrome)

Begs the question why Sansa is not more understood.

Its weird how certain characters are loved despite their affairs, or even for them and others are hated. Tony Soprano and Don Draper are two of the most loved characters of all time and they went after every woman walking, even if she only had one leg.

[Where Boars Glow]

Begs the question why Sansa is not more understood.

Its weird how certain characters are loved despite their affairs, or even for them and others are hated. Tony Soprano and Don Draper are two of the most loved characters of all time and they went after every woman walking, even if she only had one leg.

I wouldn't say Tony Soprano was that beloved by female fans?

Don Draper was because his is one suave and handsome mofo.

I think Sansa doesn't get more love because she is insipid. I'm not saying she stays that way....but most female readers of fantasy novels wouldn't want to associate themselves with such.

[Batman]

I wouldn't say Tony Soprano was that beloved by female fans?

Don Draper was because his is one suave and handsome mofo.

I think Sansa doesn't get more love because she is insipid. I'm not saying she stays that way....but most female readers of fantasy novels wouldn't want to associate themselves with such.

The women who appreciate well crafted characters

Robert was suave (well, charming) and handsome, the problem is it was before the series

Even if they are just as insipid

[Where Boars Glow]

The women who appreciate well crafted characters

Robert was suave (well, charming) and handsome, the problem is it was before the series

Even if they are just as insipid

I think the woman who appreciate well crafted characters aren't who we are discussing. I thought you were speaking of Rhaegar's fangirls :)

[the trees have eyes]

I love this theory because I've always thought there was something wrong with the common acceptance of Rhaegar, perfectly perfect in every way.

In fact, I'll double down- what if Rhaegar was the one who was actually behind the way Aerys' offness turned into violent madness? He persuaded his father that the prophecy was true and got him to do the dirty work of fire sacrifices Rhaegar thought necessary to bring about the PTWP. It's notable that Chelsted got burned alive but Rhaegar's friend JonCon didn't get the same treatment when he screwed up as Hand of the King.

It's said Duskendale started Aerys' slide into complete crazy, and it probably contributed. But wasn't that around when Rhaegar was 16 or so, old enough to be having an influence?

Maybe Aerys, in a last gasp of rationality, was actually trying to do his onetime friend Tywin and his onetime crush Joanna a favor by finding a reason to keep their little girl away from Prince CrazyPants. Who gives a little lion to a lunatic reading up on Azor Azai?

Fanfiction much?

I know it's fun to push ideas around but there is nothing in the books GRRM has written that suggests any of that. You are taking the exact opposite of what GRRM has shown us and hoping for it to happen.

I don't really understand your objections to every pov opinion that speaks well of Rhaegar either. It's like saying the more people tell you something is so the less inclined you are to believe it. If GRRM puts another 5 favourable pov recollections in I feel you will find objections to those too and it will further confirm your suspicion that Rhaegar is somehow a big bad. It just doesn't seem logical. Occam's razor isn't always welcome on this forum I know but....

[Where Boars Glow]

Why does him being 27 and her being 15 matter? In the GRRM universe if a female flowers than she's a woman, and fit to be married. That also was the way it was here until recently.

Just because something is legal doesn't make it right. In the point of view chapters where the concept of marrying some rich old wrinkly man to help your fathers political ambitions I don't notice that many of the young ladies being stoked about it. Generally speaking in the families that cared about their childrens happiness, as well as the men with any sense of decency you don't hear about 30 year olds coupling with 15 year olds even in Westeros.

You hear talk like that from the uncaring and the creepy.