Arya vs Sansa Thread

[SerStinger]

Im out of likes but i wanted to point out this is exactly how i feel. Especially the bolded part.

I really don't think it's a feminist thing necessarily. I'm not supposed to talk on the behalf of the others but I think the concern is more with misreading/simplifying than women's issues.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

Wait.... wait.... stop right there..... how did Ned betray Sansa?

Haha, I was wondering the same thing. Can't come up with anything besides letting her marry Joffrey despite the fact that he knows what a not-so-nice-person he is. (There's this famous clip in the HBOseries when Ned tells Arya why he does it) This is the only thing which comes somewhere near.. ''Betrayal''.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

Im out of likes but i wanted to point out this is exactly how i feel. Especially the bolded part.

And yet you agree with most of the OP and the other one? I can't really understand that, actually, but maybe I'm mistaking something. ^^

[Florina Laufeyson]

And yet you agree with most of the OP and the other one? I can't really understand that, actually, but maybe I'm mistaking something. ^^

I think you are mistaking something.

I like Arya more. Sansa did grow on me a lot and i do like her after her character development set in but i relate to Arya more. Sansa seems to be more about waiting to see how things pan out. This trait, i think will be important to her future situations and possible victories. Thats pretty cool but Arya's more proactive approach is one reason i relate to her. Arya doesnt just wait around, she wants to get shit done. Now. Im a lot like that myself so i can relate to that. Shes also got a vengeful streak and yeah...relate.

Its harder for me to relate to Sansa because her way of thinking isnt at all like mine. In AGoT, i found her rather vapid to be honest, but ACoK came along and she realized thats not a cool way of being. Sansa becomes very isolated and alone whereas Arya pals around with people and stuff. It feels to me that Sansa feels she cant go to anyone and there really isnt anyone for her to turn to. Arya seems to crave being around people. This is reflected with Nymeria when the wolf creates a new pack upon finding herself all by her onesie. That too, is something i relate to. Craving contact and needing people around me.

Sansa became the watcher later on. Now she is watching Littlefinger and learning his way of doing things. Its kinda interesting because Arya has also gone into this role with the House of Black and White. The Kindly Man teaches her how to be the watcher. It seems that theres actually quite a bit of similarity coming between them.

why does everything have to be a feminist debate? really guys...

Thats actually my take on the whole Sansa/Arya thing. I dont see how it always has to go back to the feminist thing.

[Kittykatknits]

Wait.... wait.... stop right there..... how did Ned betray Sansa?

Have you noticed that recently we agree a lot? It makes me feel good for some reason :P

Regarding Ned, I'm not really sure what the poster was referring too. The only two thoughts that come to me is Ned's decision to send the girls to KL despite the plausible threat from the Lannisters. Also, he kept her in the dark regarding the danger they were in while telling Arya this. In fact, the very morning that he confronts Cersei, Ned thinks briefly about telling Sansa some of it then (again) decides not to, that he'll explain it once they are all safely back in WF. I think you could debate whether Ned betrayed her here or just made some bad decisions.

Also, yes, I have noticed. :) What is it they say about great minds and thinking alike?

[WitchyBex]

Done. See my topic.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Wait.... wait.... stop right there..... how did Ned betray Sansa?

Have you noticed that recently we agree a lot? It makes me feel good for some reason :P

Well though ned gets a very good example at how horrible Joffrey is (mycah incident) he doesn't anull the engagement. only after he figures out Joffrey is a bastard born of incest does he realize sansa deserves better. Apparently he was perfectly okay with a psycho like joffrey aslong he is a trueborn. It doesnt put ned in a good light. I didn't see this very easily. I saw this for the first time in the hbo show when Ned talks to arya why Sansa has to pick joffreys side at all cost then arya points out brilliantly that why he was allowing sansa to marry someone like Joffrey? So actually Ned betrayed sansa long before she "betrayed" him.

[SerStinger]

Well though ned gets a very good example at how horrible Joffrey is (mycah incident) he doesn't anull the engagement. only after he figures out Joffrey is a bastard born of incest does he realize sansa deserves better. Apparently he was perfectly okay with a psycho like joffrey aslong he is a trueborn. It doesnt put ned in a good light. I didn't see this very easily. I saw this for the first time in the hbo show when Ned talks to arya why Sansa has to pick joffreys side at all cost then arya points out brilliantly that why he was allowing sansa to marry someone like Joffrey? So actually Ned betrayed sansa long before she "betrayed" him.

That's plausible, but I don't think Ned could just go on and break the engagement without a lot of consequences.

[Keirut]

Well though ned gets a very good example at how horrible Joffrey is (mycah incident) he doesn't anull the engagement. only after he figures out Joffrey is a bastard born of incest does he realize sansa deserves better. Apparently he was perfectly okay with a psycho like joffrey aslong he is a trueborn. It doesnt put ned in a good light. I didn't see this very easily. I saw this for the first time in the hbo show when Ned talks to arya why Sansa has to pick joffreys side at all cost then arya points out brilliantly that why he was allowing sansa to marry someone like Joffrey? So actually Ned betrayed sansa long before she "betrayed" him.

A prince who kills a low born is pretty common. Ned woukd have betray Sansa and King Robert if he annulled the weddeing promise. By marrying joffrey, Sansa would have become Queen, remember it. Wouldn't you be a little upset if you had the chance of beeing queen, and it would go away like ash in the wind?

[Kittykatknits]

That's plausible, but I don't think Ned could just go on and break the engagement without a lot of consequences.

He could have used Cat's grief as a reason to keep the girls at WF or sent them home after the death of Lady. As I said, I'm not sure I agree that he betrayed Sansa as that implies a negative intent to me. I think more it's an example of his not thinking. It's pretty clear that Ned thought that as they were children, Sansa and Arya would never be in any danger. I'm thinking of his conversation with Varys here. We know that he was very wrong in his thinking...

[Lady Lea]

Wouldn't you be a little upset if you had the chance of beeing queen, and it would go away like ash in the wind?

Yeah remember when Ned told her the engagement was off and she had to go back to Winterfell, but gave no reason for it, and then Sansa went to the Queen to ask her to convince her father to let her stay in KL?

Oh wait...

On the other hand, I can't stand Sansa since she revealed Eddard's plane to Cersei. I find it's like treason.

[SerStinger]

He could have used Cat's grief as a reason to keep the girls at WF or sent them home after the death of Lady. As I said, I'm not sure I agree that he betrayed Sansa as that implies a negative intent to me. I think more it's an example of his not thinking. It's pretty clear that Ned thought that as they were children, Sansa and Arya would never be in any danger. I'm thinking of his conversation with Varys here. We know that he was very wrong in his thinking...

Yes, I agree, and also remember that Ned thought his child was safe because she was his. At the time he couldn't foretell all the disasters that ensued.

[Grail King]

Regarding Ned, I'm not really sure what the poster was referring too. The only two thoughts that come to me is Ned's decision to send the girls to KL despite the plausible threat from the Lannisters. Also, he kept her in the dark regarding the danger they were in while telling Arya this. In fact, the very morning that he confronts Cersei, Ned thinks briefly about telling Sansa some of it then (again) decides not to, that he'll explain it once they are all safely back in WF. I think you could debate whether Ned betrayed her here or just made some bad decisions.

Also, yes, I have noticed. :) What is it they say about great minds and thinking alike?

Really,Really bad decision in my mind, he should had given the " we are in a dangerous place " speech to both together and once he made his discoveries just send them through cover of night with no warning to either of them, he can tell Sansa the facts he found later.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

A prince who kills a low born is pretty common. Ned woukd have betray Sansa and King Robert if he annulled the weddeing promise. By marrying joffrey, Sansa would have become Queen, remember it. Wouldn't you be a little upset if you had the chance of beeing queen, and it would go away like ash in the wind?

And allowing your daughter to marry a sociopath makes the idea of her being queen okay? Ned was okay with this until he found out joffrey is a bastard. I find this a whole lot worse then Sansa being disobedient. Sansa who was kept in the dark is worse then 35 year old who did something far worse?

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Sansa's naivity annoyed me in Game but she grew on me afterwards. Arya is more likeable though IMO. What I can't forgive Sansa for in Clash is the fact that "she even missed Arya sometimes". Arya thought about Sansa quite a lot but Sansa didn't not spare much thought for her sister (who could have been dead, for all she knew) after they were separated and when she did it was often to blame Arya for Lady's death, despite the fact that she was fully aware that Lady died because of Joffrey and Cersei.

[Kittykatknits]

Really,Really bad decision in my mind, he should had given the " we are in a dangerous place " speech to both together and once he made his discoveries just send them through cover of night with no warning to either of them, he can tell Sansa the facts he found later.

I agree, that would have been a very smart decision to make.

[Kittykatknits]

Sansa's naivity annoyed me in Game but she grew on me afterwards. Arya is more likeable though IMO. What I can't forgive Sansa for in Clash is the fact that "she even missed Arya sometimes". Arya thought about Sansa quite a lot but Sansa didn't not spare much thought for her sister (who could have been dead, for all she knew) after they were separated and when she did it was often to blame Arya for Lady's death, despite the fact that she was fully aware that Lady died because of Joffrey and Cersei.

Not quite. Actually, Sansa more than once has thoughts that tell us she makes a point not to think about her family to much as it is very painful to her. She put her thoughts and energy in to dealing on her present circumstances as much as possible.

I think the fact that Sansa wants children that look like Arya also says quite a bit more than some comments she made way back in GOT. From Clash forward, she never blames Arya for the death of Lady, even though she often reflects on how much she misses her wolf.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Not quite. Actually, Sansa more than once has thoughts that tell us she makes a point not to think about her family to much as it is very painful to her. She put her thoughts and energy in to dealing on her present circumstances as much as possible.

I think the fact that Sansa wants children that look like Arya also says quite a bit more than some comments she made way back in GOT. From Clash forward, she never blames Arya for the death of Lady, even though she often reflects on how much she misses her wolf.

Then I stand corrected. Like I said, she grew on me after the first book and I had completely forgotten about the children thing.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Sansa's naivity annoyed me in Game but she grew on me afterwards. Arya is more likeable though IMO. What I can't forgive Sansa for in Clash is the fact that "she even missed Arya sometimes". Arya thought about Sansa quite a lot but Sansa didn't not spare much thought for her sister (who could have been dead, for all she knew) after they were separated and when she did it was often to blame Arya for Lady's death, despite the fact that she was fully aware that Lady died because of Joffrey and Cersei.

So her dreaming about having a daughter that looks like arya and even naming her so doesn't count. Ore how about remembering their snowball fight? Let's not question just how much Sansa cares about arya. Though they may have their differences these girls love each other.

[Lady Lea]

Arya and Sansa have some cute parallels in their POVs, for example, both reflect on how they miss their family and add a "even Sansa / even Arya" at the end, there is a Arya/Alayne POV combo in AFFC where they both think about being "a stupid little girl" in Winterfell, they both pick their mother's names as an alias, etc. I think it's nice.