Spearwifey Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I think what Summer saw was indeed a dragon but only a symbolical one. A real dragon would have to be almost as big as Dany's dragons by now and the North may be vast but not big enough for a dragon to feed and go unnoticed for so long. I also think it is highly unlikely that it had something to do with Jon since he wasn't in Winterfell at the time and the burning of it wasn't really related to him.I didn't make the connection to Bloodraven at first since I haven't read the D&E stories yet but after reading people's posts I think it's plausible that it was him trying to send a sign to Bran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJDTrismegistus Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Looking at the new maps in Lands of Ice and Fire it shows how sparce the north really is. The southern part of Westeros is covered with villages, towns and castles yet the north literally has the main castles of Winterfell, Dreadfort, Deepwood Motte etc. and not much else. In addition, in Ran's video regarding the population of Westeros he mentions the north's low population and it's low population density.So I don't think it's odd that the dragon hasn't been noticed, or if it has, that word hasn't spread about its existance. The dragon could've flown to the Lonely Hills or the mountains just to the north of Winterfell where it could be gorging on wild game, not interested in man-flesh.I don't see the point of having a warging experience that is part vision and part reality. Having Bran experience real sights and sounds and then throwing a dragon vision in there to represent Jon or Bloodraven doesn't seem right to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 So I don't think it's odd that the dragon hasn't been noticed, or if it has, that word hasn't spread about its existance. The dragon could've flown to the Lonely Hills or the mountains just to the north of Winterfell where it could be gorging on wild game, not interested in man-flesh.There were hundreds of people camped out at Winterfell when Bran saw a winged snake. We have three dragons in the story that we can use to roughly determine age and size and development. The dragons aren't born with the ability to immediately fly and breathe fire. It happens over time. So a literal dragon flying out of Winterfell breathing fire would be large enough to be seen by at least one of all of those hundreds of people participating in the destruction of Winterfell. It's not like Summer/Bran was describing the destruction in literal language and then suddenly switched to figurative. He didn't say, "I saw smoke, swords oh and a winged snake." He saw man claws, grey cliffs and a winged snake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Men in their cups say... Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 There were hundreds of people camped out at Winterfell when Bran saw a winged snake.No. There weren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pestor Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 There were hundreds of people camped out at Winterfell when Bran saw a winged snake. We have three dragons in the story that we can use to roughly determine age and size and development. The dragons aren't born with the ability to immediately fly and breathe fire. It happens over time. So a literal dragon flying out of Winterfell breathing fire would be large enough to be seen by at least one of all of those hundreds of people participating in the destruction of Winterfell.It's not like Summer/Bran was describing the destruction in literal language and then suddenly switched to figurative. He didn't say, "I saw smoke, swords oh and a winged snake." He saw man claws, grey cliffs and a winged snake.there has always been the story that there was a dragon under Winterfell.People said thats why they had a warm castle and hotsprings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 No. There weren't.Hmm, I could be overestimating. I'm going by the numbers Theon's chapter mentions, where Kromm tells Theon that hundreds of men with a bloody man on their banner have turned against Ser Rodrick . Ramsay comes in and says he only lost twenty or thirty men. Perhaps that 20-30 loss dropped them below the literal definition of hundreds? Ramsay orders the destruction of Winterfell. Summer/Bran describes all of the men around while Winterfell is destroyed. many men, many horses. He even describes the noise of the 'man-pack'. Whether there are hundreds or just over a hundred, the point is that there are enough people there that the probability of no one seeing a dragon large enough to fly and breathe fire is incredibly slim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 there has always been the story that there was a dragon under Winterfell.People said thats why they had a warm castle and hotspringsAs far as I recall, this is a fan theory. I don't think there is any mention of this in the books, though I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My name is Reek Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 In Old Norse the word fell means 'mountain' and we all know that dragons live in mountain caves, with all their booty. So at Winterfell there is obviously a dragon, probably an ice dragon at that. :hat: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 If there's an ice dragon, it probably wouldn't serve as a supernatural explanation for the hot springs. The mentions of ice dragon stories in the series relates it to cold. Cold breath, cold belly. Jon doesn't recall any warmth when thinking of Old Nan's ice dragon tales. Even the Ice Dragon constellation is more related to cold than warmth, as it's eye points north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draxus Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Other than Dany, Bran(well, TECHNICALLY Bran, Osha and Rickon) is the only candidate who potentially qualifies as AAR by meeting all the prerequisites(Jon hasnt woken any dragons). He was reborn when he left the crypts in WF. WF burning was the smoke and the Greyjoys were the salt. The dragon Summer sees is the dragon woken out of stone.Just throwing it out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draxus Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 I must correct myself- Bran hasn't had a Nissa Nissa yet.... Hmmm I must think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draxus Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Maybe his legs were his Nissa Nissa cause he loved to climb? I CANT see Bran ever hurting anyone. idk sorry to get off topic lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJDTrismegistus Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Maybe his Nissa Nissa is Meera. And it was Meera-paste he was eating not Jojen-paste!! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narwhal Stark Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 It was quite clearly Ned Stark riding his flying Direwolf to freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narwhal Stark Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Maybe his Nissa Nissa is Meera. And it was Meera-paste he was eating not Jojen-paste!! :)Don't give GRRM ideas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Night's Prince Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 as to the size, if Summer calls it a serpent and I'm sure he's seen a bunch of serpents, then it can't be too big really, can it? Long mayhaps, but not large. My $.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJDTrismegistus Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 as to the size, if Summer calls it a serpent and I'm sure he's seen a bunch of serpents, then it can't be too big really, can it? Long mayhaps, but not large. My $.02Bit of a Father Ted moment here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25N-4zrk390You see - the dragon is far away! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemul Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Bran was just on the skooma, there was no dragon.... :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Heir of Bear Island Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 as to the size, if Summer calls it a serpent and I'm sure he's seen a bunch of serpents, then it can't be too big really, can it? Long mayhaps, but not large. My $.02If it is an actual Dragon it probably wouldn't be a hatchling or it would already be dead. Dany had to hand feed them charred meat before they learned to char their own. A lone baby dragon in the north would not survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Men in their cups say... Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 If it is an actual Dragon it probably wouldn't be a hatchling or it would already be dead. Dany had to hand feed them charred meat before they learned to char their own. A lone baby dragon in the north would not survive.The idea is that an adult dragon lived under the castle, large enough to cause the extensive network of hot springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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