Jon Snow's Death?

[maximilian]

10 stabs can be survived thanks to modern medicine and even now there's a high chance the victim will die.

He might survive those 4 stabs by himself, but the chances are low.

[Lord Mighty Tywin]

Hopefully it is the beginning of a new trend, the riddance of the bandwagon characters,

And most sincerely hope, the riddance procedure, will be followed, by Daenerys -_-

[SingleMort]

In my opinion Jon is certainly not 'dead' (as in dead and his character will never appear in the series again). He might die and then be ressurected or he might have survived his wounds but there's no way he's gone for good because the Wall narrative is clearly one of the 'endgame' narratives in the series and I really can't see them continuing to the end with another character. I mean the only option with Sam and Stannis gone from the Wall would be the Red Woman and I can't see her becoming the new lead character at the wall even if she gets a POV. For one thing I doubt that the Watch would follow her.

I've always thought that whatever the climax of the story will be I will almost certainly revolve around Jon and Dany's POVs. I mean the series is called A Song of Ice and Fire. Which clearly seems to refer to the Wall/Others and the Dragons. Whether or not Dany and Jon will survive the series is another matter but I'd definitely say they're safe until the last book.

On another not I've noticed some people say that Jon and Dany are doomed because of their link to the wolves and dragons and that Sansa will be safe because her wolf was killed. I personally would have said the opposite was true. I always thought of the wolves as protectors of their respective Stark masters. I mean every time something bad happens the wolves seem to have a foresight of it and try to warn the Starks and protect them.

Edit: Also I can't see Jon dying before we find the truth of his parentage and I always thought that he'd be a dragon-rider. I mean the list of candidates for that is growing thin. I could however see this as a possible way for Jon to get out of his Oath to the Watch. "My watch shall not end until my death" :rolleyes:

[Ice Turtle]

Arguably there were only two life threatening stabs. The first one on the neck wasn't that serious and Jon never felt the forth, maybe because there was no fourth stab.

[sarah.jenice]

If Jon was stabbed and just wounded and will survive without warging into Ghost or being resurrected then wthat was the purpose of the stabbing?

I think the point of the stabbing (GRRM's point, not the assassins point) was so Jon can be free of his role as Lord Commander. When the Night's Watchmen die, their brothers say, "And now his watch is ended." Mel saw the vision of Jon's face, Ghost's face and Jon's face again. I think Jon will warg Ghost (especially since he said his name at the end of the stabbing) and will be resurrected after the Night's Watch has said those words. Perhaps after they have lit the fire, he will rise from the flames unhurt.

Whatever happens to resurrect him (hopefully hot Mel), I think Jon will remain himself because he will warg Ghost and be able to keep his own consciousness.

Once he is free from his bonds as Lord Commander, he will be able to march to Winterfell without constraint.

While this is what I very much hope happens, I do have to disagree with the people who are saying we know Jon's not dead because his story isn't over and there is no other POV at the Wall. Couldn't we have said the same for Robb and Catelyn? They easily could have had more story to tell, but George chose to end their paths at the Red Wedding.

[Budj]

Plenty of ways for Jon to die and be resurrected. I can currently consider 4 different routes of his resurrection - only one of which bringing definitive horrible consequences (by fire/Mel), if you "read into" the Theon sample chapter from twow there is another potential source, and lastly blood magic sacrifice (potential wildlings or Bran/BR). I lean towards the 2nd here...and I posted a pretty long post about it in twow forums if anyone is interested. A 4th one is by Ice magic.... I have postulated in other threads that the cold he felt (eerily similar to description of mark of winter in the Ice Dragon, by Martin) was winter marking him. Not sure what that means...it could even just help keep his body in stasis until he heals up / gets fixed up...but if Ice magic resurrects him then that would be a 4th way...but potentially equally as bad as fire/Mel resurrecting him. Since winter creatures weren't "bad" just different in that story though, it could be not a bad thing.

Then of course there is the chance he is alive / in a coma. Making #5.

I recognize some of this is crack pot-ish, but I'm just trying to make the point that there are a lot of ways for Martin to write Jon not being dead as a result of the stabbing. Then of course you have to consider all of the build up to his heritage and watching him learn to lead, etc. I don't think the story is finished with him as other posters have mentioned.

[Scipio Africanus]

While this is what I very much hope happens, I do have to disagree with the people who are saying we know Jon's not dead because his story isn't over and there is no other POV at the Wall. Couldn't we have said the same for Robb and Catelyn? They easily could have had more story to tell, but George chose to end their paths at the Red Wedding.

Martin's choice of POVs seems more based on geography linked with story. In the case of the Riverlands/Vale we got Jaime and Brienne POVs. Later we got Sansa in the Vale. Considering our bud Baelish is there (the mover and shaker in the Game together with Varys and later QoT) the story will continue its focus.

You could argue Robb and Catelyn and Eddard served their purporse and were superceded by other POVs (of their enemies) in roughly the same geographic locations.

I don't really see anyone other then Bran, Mel or Samwell superceding Jon's POV, because they're the only ones who understand what's happening or going to happen in terms of the Others and the fate of the Rangers and Wildlings. But all three have their issues and honestly its just easier to keep Jon unless you either get an Others POV sequence or a new POV.

[Cat of the Commons]

Martin loves the end of chapter death fakeout. Some examples include:

• Davos' last chapter in ACoK, where he witnesses from closeby the Blackwater being consumed by fire.
  
• Arya being hit in the head with an axe at the Red Wedding.
  
• Ned being attacked by Jaime Lannister in AGoT.
  
• Brienne being "hung" in AFFC.
  
• Asha being beneath "the blow that would finish her" in ADWD at Deepwood Motte.
  

Etc. It could go either way with Jon honestly, but I'd hardly be surprised live or die.

I don't have the books in front of me, but if i remember correctly Yoren pulling a knife on Arya in KL was another end of chapter death fakeout.

[Tagganaro]

I think this is actually the most likely scenario- That Jon is incapacitated and will warg into Ghost for a little but that the wounds weren't serious enough to kill him. Clearly, I think Jon needs to be out of action for certain things to happen- The Wall needs to fall or the NW needs to be largely destroyed or Jon needs to get away from the Wall or wildlings need to be destroyed or Jon needs to better develop his warging powers a la Bran.

Either way, I think Jon's incapacitation or "death" is very important to whatever is going to happen. I do tend to think that the Wall will eventually need to fall at some point as its status as Chekhov's Wall necessitates, and I also tend to think that Jon needs to somehow get away from the Wall at some point to pursue more interesting story developments with him. We've gotten a lot of chapters and writing about the weak and precarious institution the NW has become- I'm expecting major payoff on that front with regards to them not being able to fulfill their one true purpose.

[Janicia]

Would it be so bad if Jon warged into Ghost for a while and then hopped into a dragon?

Dany is Drogon's rider, but she can't even steer him. The other two miss Dany, but they must be bitter about her abandoning them to life chained up in a dungeon. And lately they've had the experience of terrifying and killing a bunch of people. How on earth is Tyrion or Aegon or whomever going to train one of them? If the dragons are to be remotely useful, they need to be tamed. But they're too big and fierce to be tamed at this point... unless they're warged.

My crackpot theory: Dany and her army will eventually get on boats to go to Westeros. The dragons will follow her, being scary but unhelpful. Dany will somehow end up at the Wall with the dragons, and Jon will warg into a dragon. Then the Jon-dragon can patrol the north and eradicate the Others while Dany and the other two dragons go and conquer Westeros or get themselves killed or something.

[The Promised Prince]

My crackpot theory: Dany and her army will eventually get on boats to go to Westeros. The dragons will follow her, being scary but unhelpful. Dany will somehow end up at the Wall with the dragons, and Jon will warg into a dragon. Then the Jon-dragon can patrol the north and eradicate the Others while Dany and the other two dragons go and conquer Westeros or get themselves killed or something.

Pretty much crackpot.

On topic, Jon really needs to break off the vow he made for the NW for I believe something more is in store for him. He'll be released of his vows or the NW will be abolished.

[PeterNelson]

This is a WAG ... or maybe a "Wouldn't it be cool if ..."

The next thing we see of Jon is Wun Wun running away, taking Jon's body to safety. We eventually discover Jon managed to jump into Wun Wun (like we saw Bran do with Hodor), and save his body.

That's what I'm personally hoping to see.

I think Jon's too vital a character for him to die, or become undead or just a warg. Especially with the loss of the Prince of Dorne, it seems more and more likely that Jon would become the third Dragon. The Red Woman specifically sees Jon Snow in the fires - her failed prophesies all involved seeing "a king" or "a girl" or other non-specific person. I'm pretty sure a living, breathing Jon Snow will be back.

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

I don't think Jon's is dead, or will be UnJon. I think he's severely wounded, and needs that to explore his wargabilities. Since there is no Maester at Castle Black, the only one who can heal his wounds is Mels, she will do that in a similar way as Moqorro did with Victarions hand. Being very sick and passed out Jon wil learn to control his powers - Bran needed his fall and the darkness of the crypts, Arya needed her blindness, Jon will need a similar physical restriction to learn how to control it.

In the mean time chaos will be upon the Wall, Wildlings and NW fighting and all that jazz. Perfect time for the Others to attack :D

[Groat]

I always assumed the prologue of ADWD was included specifically to explain how a warg can somewhat survive after death. I mean what was the point of telling what happened to Varamyr if not that.

[Quiet Isle]

Just to add a bit of mythology to this: Joseph Campbell's monomyth, or the hero's journey, is a basic pattern that its proponents argue is found in many narratives from around the world. This widely distributed pattern was described by Campbell in The Hero with a Thousand Faces (1949).^[1] An enthusiast of novelist James Joyce, Campbell borrowed the term monomyth from Joyce's Finnegans Wake.^[2]

Campbell held that numerous myths from disparate times and regions share fundamental structures and stages, which he summarized in The Hero with a Thousand Faces:

A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder: fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is won: the hero comes back from this mysterious adventure with the power to bestow boons on his fellow man.

[3]

Campbell and other scholars, such as Erich Neumann, describe narratives of Gautama Buddha, Moses, and Christ in terms of the monomyth and Campbell argues that classic myths from many cultures follow this basic pattern.^[4]

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I mention a lot of this stuff here:

As far as the overall purpose of the stabbing, apart from Bowen and Co. wanting to kill Jon, it seems as if latent warging abilities are kickstarted or enhanced due to physical or emotional trauma. For Bran, this was when he fell and became paralyzed. For Arya, it was when she was made blind. For Jon, it might be this stabbing — a traumatic event that ends up causing his thus-far mostly untapped abilities to awaken.

[Quiet Isle]

I always assumed the prologue of ADWD was included specifically to explain how a warg can somewhat survive after death. I mean what was the point of telling what happened to Varamyr if not that.

That above and my post above.

[clydas]

Martin loves the end of chapter death fakeout. Some examples include:

• Davos' last chapter in ACoK, where he witnesses from closeby the Blackwater being consumed by fire.
  
• Arya being hit in the head with an axe at the Red Wedding.
  
• Ned being attacked by Jaime Lannister in AGoT.
  
• Brienne being "hung" in AFFC.
  
• Asha being beneath "the blow that would finish her" in ADWD at Deepwood Motte.
  

Don't forget Tyrion's drowning. If you read that chapter you'll see that Tyrion was 'more dead' than Jon was. I think the wildlings or Wun Wun will riot and save him, to be healed by Melisandre (healed, not resurrected).

I wouldn't complain too much if he was really dead, I don't see "wasted" story. Jon would have accomplished his plot role by giving deep insight into the Night's Watch, the Others and the wildlings, as well as by getting said wildlings through the Wall, setting the stage for an awful lot of plot developments.

However, GRRM said that Jon's parents will be revealed. I think that will have some importance (even if it isn't R+L), so Jon must be alive to hear the news. That is why I don't believe him dead.

As for the stabbing incident, I have a question: it is clear that Bowen Marsh would attempt something (Jon was arrogant and cocky and just pissed him through all the book), but the actual stabbing seemed somewhat impulsive. It was not the better moment, not with a giant going berserk and lots of wildlings and queen's men looking. Not the setting i think careful Bowen Marsh would choose to execute the assassination. Maybe he planned to kill Jon during the expedition to Hardhome and got desperate after Jon's decision not to go, but still it would have been much easier to let Jon die at Ramsay's hands. Jon made clear that the oathbreaking was his and his alone. So why did Bowen Marsh stabbed Jon at that time of all moments? Could he have freshadowed the giant incident (or even schemed for it to happen ala Littlefinger)? Why would he do this?

Uh, long post. Sorry for bad English.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I always assumed the prologue of ADWD was included specifically to explain how a warg can somewhat survive after death. I mean what was the point of telling what happened to Varamyr if not that.

The prologue also serves to show the violation of warging a human being. In that sense, it's just as pertinent to Bran as it is to Jon.

[Quiet Isle]

I mention a lot of this stuff here: http://asoiaf.wester...tion-mythology/

As far as the overall purpose of the stabbing, apart from Bowen and Co. wanting to kill Jon, it seems as if latent warging abilities are kickstarted or enhanced due to physical or emotional trauma. For Bran, this was when he fell and became paralyzed. For Arya, it was when she was made blind. For Jon, it might be this stabbing — a traumatic event that ends up causing his thus-far mostly untapped abilities to awaken.

I agree. This is the Great awakening. and here's a great hero's journey chart, which is happening before us: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Heroesjourney.svg&page=1