Gendry as Azor Ahai ?

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

It's come up before. I would put him on a "B" list of candidates.

[Castellan]

Having a brain loss moment. Does it say where Oathkeeper is presently? No books on me right now.

Oathkeeper last seen with Brienne but not sure if she had it with her when she went to bring Jaime back to UnCat (would the BWB let her take it with her? But on the other hand Jaime would probably notice if it was missing).

Widow's wail was apparently given by Tommen to Loras so is with him. I think I read that on the forum.

I think Gendry is the person most likely to pull a new sword from a fire. He has made his first sword and he could easily get the job of at least removing the Lannister hilt from Oathkeeper.

He is also slowly turning into a warrior, he has already been knighted.

[Lord Ben]

If he were to be legitimized he would be the rightful king, after all,

Whoever has their butt planted on the Iron throne with the ability to make the other Houses stop fighting will rule. If Gendry manages to become someone's puppet or raise an army behind him he might be king, that's the only way. Nobody is going to give out crowns because of birth certificates anymore. As long as Maegery is queen and Tommen has a crown the Tyrells, etc are going to back Tommen even if Gendry has a DVD with Robert naming him the legitimate heir.

IThe only reason it hasn't been rediscovered before now is because trades people like smiths can't read and nobles think themselves too good to dirty their hands with common labor which smithing is.

....and because magic was missing from the world. It doesn't take hidden recipes or anything. All it takes is a change in the rules about magic.

[Bugjuice]

If this recipe is just hanging out at Dragonstone why didn't Stannis find it or use it in the last 18 years?

I use the term "recipe" loosely. From the description of ripples and hardness and sharpness, I think Valyrian steel is probably a combination Toledo (Spain) steel and Damascene steel. I think most of Westeros uses iron weapons and so the making of steel, an alloy of iron and carbon, are known only to a few special people...like the same magicians/alchemists who create wildfire. Toledo steel gets its strength from the high quality alloy it's made from but Damascene steel gets it's strength from the way it was forged. Damascene steel is forged similarily to Samurai swords; it's folded over and over again till it makes up thousands of layers. The high born magicians/alchemists may have figured out the alloy part of making Valarian steel but I think only a smith would understand how to forge the steel properly after the alloy is created. The guff about Nissa Nissa is just legendary faff; A tall tale.

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

I use the term "recipe" loosely. From the description of ripples and hardness and sharpness, I think Valyrian steel is probably a combination Toledo (Spain) steel and Damascene steel. I think most of Westeros uses iron weapons and so the making of steel, an alloy of iron and carbon, are known only to a few special people...like the same magicians/alchemists who create wildfire. Toledo steel gets its strength from the high quality alloy it's made from but Damascene steel gets it's strength from the way it was forged. Damascene steel is forged similarily to Samurai swords; it's folded over and over again till it makes up thousands of layers. The high born magicians/alchemists may have figured out the alloy part of making Valarian steel but I think only a smith would understand how to forge the steel properly after the alloy is created. The guff about Nissa Nissa is just legendary faff; A tall tale.

My understanding is that Damascus steel was not produced this way. Many people think that because there is a unique looking surface pattern but chemical analysis and attempts at reproducing the formations have shown(conclusively in my opinion) that it is the chemical composition of the ingot used to forge the sword that is important, specifically the non iron impurities that are present and cause the formations to occur.. Also, we hear again and again that steel is used, not iron.

Furthermore I was under the impression that the Japanese had access to very poor iron ore and that is why the folding was necesary, partially to control carbon content, but also to remove impurities.

I have serious doubts that Valyrian steel is just higher carbon steel.

Again though. Why do you think the secret is on Dragonstone and has alluded Stannis for 18 years?

If you want to tell me how very wrong I am PM me :D

[Angmar]

Hodor is AAR. And Osha is his Nissa Nissa (or Bran, what have you).

It is known.

[Lord Ben]

It all makes sense except the author directly contradicts what you're saying and does directly state that magic is involved in making Valyrian steel.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Category/C91/P105/

March 11, 2001

Producing Valyrian Steel

A brief question about Valyrian steel - is it the metal that makes the sword so special (provenance, age, etc), or is it the forging (spells, techniques)

Forging techniques and spells, actually. There is magic involved in the making of Valyrian steel.

In other words, if a smith knew how, could he take some fresh, high-quality steel and produce an equally fine sword?

Not unless he could work the magic.

Or is it something like Aragorn's Anduril in the Lord of the Rings, which could be re-forged but not made from scratch, or so it seemed to me.

That's pretty much been the situation since the Doom of Valyria.

[naik2902]

he will be born from aerys rhella line. no gendry.

[Bugjuice]

.

Why do you think the secret is on Dragonstone and has alluded Stannis for 18 years?

I think it's on Dragonstone because the last surviving Valarians were on Dragonstone for centuries. I think it's been "hiding in plain site" and Stannis and everyone else has overlooked it until now. I'm thinking that GRR Martin has these novels planned out and that if a characters goes somewhere and does something, it's for a reason. If there's nothing of importance on Dragonstone why send Loras Tyrell there? So far he's lost his looks but that could have happened anywhere. It didn't have to happen on Dragonstone. He's there for a reason other than to get Tommen-loyal soldiers killed off. He's going to be doing something to kill the time while he recovers from his burns. He'll either dig up some Targaryen secrets about a long lost heir or how to forge Valarian steel....or both.

[Ser Creighton]

he will be born from aerys rhella line. no gendry.

Will they? What exactly did that little old prophecy say? You think maybe Martin hid it away for a reason? Everyone wants to be the Prince with the promise ring. For all we know it will say when two dragons dance and the wold howls while the lions roars, a babe born of dragon and dragon, will maybe have another babe, and perhaps that babe maybe the Prince who makes a promise, then runs his wife through with a sword to make it gleam real pretty. Yikes, no thank you.

The story of AA is bathed in blood magic, and I do not trust that stuff. And Martin has pointed out that you should not trust prophecies. Not to mention we don't even know this prophecy. People in the books are always screwing up the prophecies.

To know ones future is to become trapped within it.

[Faithmemory]

Gendry hates Robert the King, his father.. I want to see him become a warrior like Robert. Kind of like a Robert Baratheon reborn.

[Jorg Ancrath]

Will they? What exactly did that little old prophecy say? You think maybe Martin hid it away for a reason? Everyone wants to be the Prince with the promise ring. For all we know it will say when two dragons dance and the wold howls while the lions roars, a babe born of dragon and dragon, will maybe have another babe, and perhaps that babe maybe the Prince who makes a promise, then runs his wife through with a sword to make it gleam real pretty. Yikes, no thank you.

The story of AA is bathed in blood magic, and I do not trust that stuff. And Martin has pointed out that you should not trust prophecies. Not to mention we don't even know this prophecy. People in the books are always screwing up the prophecies.

To know ones future is to become trapped within it.

The bit about AA from the aeryes and rhella line is the biggest evidence pointing towards Jon, Dany, Aegon, and noone else. If this prophecy isn't true, then AA can be just about anyone.

[Sumther]

Here are a couple of facts about Gendry.

1. He is the bastard child of King Robert, named king after the death of Aerys and Rhaegar. King Robert is the grand son of Rhelle Targaryen and an unknown Baratheon. Gendry was not born of the Rhelle and Aerys but is part of Rhelle's surviving royal blood line. Jon Snow (if his parents are Rheagar and Liana) is born of the Aerys and Rhella line but Rheagar was never king himself. As we know from Melisandre there is power in Kings blood and it might be a streatch but that could connect to Jon Arryns' last words, "The seed is strong."

2. He is a blahcksmith with proven skill. He is also in the company of Thoros, a red priest of R'hllor, who is known for using a flaming sword. We first see him when his faith was weak but it was restored when he brought Dondarion back to life. Thoros converts Gendry and teaches him about R'hllor the religion concerned with the prophecy of Azor Ahai. Thoros also has been given the ability to light his sword on fire with blood and prayer. It is interesting that the only smith character we spend much time with (with the exception of Donal Noye) has the blood of Rhella, is converted to follow R'hllor by a red priest who knows the spell to light a sword on fire.

3. Melisandre goes to Stannis because she sees a vision of him in her fire wielding Lights Bringer. Gendry has been mistaken for Robert and Renly but not Stannis specifically. This is most likely because the one who sees Robert in him was Ned who knew Robert the most out of the three brothers and the one who mistakes him for Renly was Brienne who is most familiar with Renly out of the three brothers. Melisandre could have mistaken Stannis for an older Gendry in her vision

4. These are a little far fetch. The Kings blood and Rhelle's blood in Gendry could tie into Jon Arryn's last words, "The seed is strong." Also the born amidst salt and smoke could be the salt from the sea at Kings Landing and smoke from the forge but Gendry wasn't born by a forge as far as we know. He wasn't near a forge until an unknown lord paid for Gendry's apprenticeship (possibly a lord who knew of the prophecy) .

When I first read the series I thought Gendry was Azor Ahai just because he was a Baratheon smith but that was because I forgot about the prophecy. I don't think that he is 100% that Gendry is AA but I think that there is a decent amount of evidence to support the theory.

[Nice Oak Tree]

First post! Hi, people! Just to make it clear: English is not my first language. Sorry for the grammar mistakes!

--

Well, I just remembered this prophecy from the House of Undying: "A blue-eyed king who casts no shadow raises a red sword in his hand". [http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_of_the_Undying#Visions_in_the_House_of_the_Undying]

As far as we know, Stannis Baratheon is a blue-eyed king. But we also know Stannis is not raising any real red sword in his hand. So, this blue-eyed king could be Gendry: blue-eyed, R'hollor follower and a smith, which means he could forge his own sword (and we know through Brienne's POV in FoC he's forging it).

I don't like this theory at all. I mean, I deeply love Gendry. He's by far my favorite character. But I don't want him to kill Arya, because Gendry/Arya is the only couple in the novels who truly love each other (besides Tyrion/Tysha, I guess) - even if they don't know it yet. I always thought Gendry was just another Robert's bastard until I came in this forum. But he certainly has another part to play, like reforge Ice and give it to Arya.

What do you guys think?

[Sumther]

If Gendry is Azor I don't think that means Arya has to be Nissa. In my opinion Arya thought of Gendry more of a brother figure than a lover. The path that Arya has chosen is a path the death not love. Also it is also very possible that Gendry has fallen in love with the another girl besides Arya. When Gendry decided to stay with the brotherhood he chose that life over Arya. It could be possible that Gendry kills the women he loves and then crosses paths with Arya some how and falls in love with her and they live happily ever after. Then again this is Georg we are talking about so that is very unlikely.

[bobbybuilderton]

Whoever has their butt planted on the Iron throne with the ability to make the other Houses stop fighting will rule. If Gendry manages to become someone's puppet or raise an army behind him he might be king, that's the only way. Nobody is going to give out crowns because of birth certificates anymore. As long as Maegery is queen and Tommen has a crown the Tyrells, etc are going to back Tommen even if Gendry has a DVD with Robert naming him the legitimate heir.

I agree. At this point I think the only usefulness in being Robert's bastard is to prove the incest and remove the Lannisters from power. It won't GIVE anyone else power unless they can take it.

snip

The guff about Nissa Nissa is just legendary faff; A tall tale.

After reading five books of this series, you don't think that there is an element of truth to every story that sounds ridiculous? I think he did kill her.

[Lady Blue Rose]

I'm going to make a prediction:

Gendry will forge Valarian steel. The only reason it hasn't been rediscovered before now is because trades people like smiths can't read and nobles think themselves too good to dirty their hands with common labor which smithing is. Loras Tyrell will find the recipe for it at Dragonstone and give it to Gendry when they meet. He will give it to Gendry because Gendry looks like his Uncle Renly Baratheon. Varys made especially sure Gendry and Edric Storm survived. Edric because he's got a noble mother and Gendry because he likely inherited the Targaryen heat resistance. Why else would they make sure he becomes a blacksmith and not some other trade? Or simply abandon him like all of Robert's base born bastards?

This could work. But remember GRRM said the whole heat resistance Dany portrayed was only her. Prob, he made sure he survived because he has Targaryen blood in general.

[Lady Blue Rose]

I can see how MAYBE he might be one of the dragons' three heads as he has Targaryen blood but I don't know if I would go as far as him being Azor. Although I wouldn't mind, I'm a Gendry fan.

[Tywin's Sideburns]

Gendry can possibly be Azor Ahai, because of few reasons. First off, he is a smith and we know that the first Azor Ahai had to forge his own Lightbringer which means he probably was also a blacksmith. Second Gendry's destiny is yet to be fulfilled and third he might have a possible Nissa Nissa alternative in Arya. If Azor Ahai is Gendry, then it will be least expected and fit in GRRM's story telling style. Also the original Azor Ahai was not of any prestigious blood line or anything and even though Gendry is of Baratheon blood with Targ ancestors, I do not think blood line matters in this situation.

[Lord Freypie]

I suppose it's not any crazier than the theories of Tyrion being Aerys' son or Darkstar being Rhaegar.

There are lots of element supporting Tyrion being an hidden targ compared to the two others, it's at least an intended diversion (while I don't think Martin even tries to make people believe Gendry is a possible AA).