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Horn of Winter = The horn Victorian has.


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Yeah, I think if Jon does get a dragon, he'll have to sacrifice Ghost Nissa Nissa style. I just don't see him having both a Dragon AND and Direwolf. One or the other, one or the other.

Or he'll fall in love with Dany and need to kill her for some reason to save Westeros from the Others.

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Wouldn't it be nuts if victarion's horn caused the doom. And maybe he'll blow it by slaver's bay and it'll erupt into an abyss.

Whoa, cool theory. Haven't heard this one before. It would be cool if the only way the doom was explained to readers was if it happened again.

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Granny Do Targaryens become immune to fire once they "bond" to their dragons? George_RR_Martin Granny, thanks for asking that. It gives me a chance to clear up a common misconception. TARGARYENS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE! The birth of Dany's dragons was unique, magical, wonderous, a miracle. She is called The Unburnt because she walked into the flames and lived. But her brother sure as hell wasn't immune to that molten gold. Revanshe So she won't be able to do it again? George_RR_Martin Probably not.

That interview was held 1999.. about the same time Clash of Kings was published. What we've been talking about takes place years after that, and things can change.

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Don't forget that these are just predictions! :') It's a different matter how Dany'll get the horn in her hands.. she most likely will remember Quaithe's warning and how it did include a Kraken as well, which ought to backfire Victarion's plans quite a bit.

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Everyone seems to think that the blowing of the HoW will literally cause the "wall to fall" .... what if it's more along the lines of falling due to being melted by dragon fire? So in essence, the HoW is the one that brings the dragons, and the dragons melt the wall...........

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  • 2 years later...

'Euron's gifts are poisoned' GRRM keeps mentioning this. Now Euron gave Victorian the horn, but we can't be sure its the same horn he blew at the Kingsmoot, even if it is, it could be a lie that it binds dragons. Victorian has already figured out that blowing the horn kills the person who blows it, and i don't think Euron is stupid enough to believe Victorian wouldn't have figured that out, so why did he give Victorian the horn? It would be stupid to give that horn to his brother, if it did actually work. i think this 'poisonous' gift is that it is actually the Horn of Winter. Who knows, maybe Euron wants Westeros overrun with The Others because of some secret agenda? Or maybe he's waiting for everyone to die so he can claim the throne for himself?

I also think this is the case because we're on to the sixth book and all the horns that were supposed to be 'the horn of winter' have been actually fake, so IMO it would only make sense for a horn that isn't supposed to be the horn of winter, to turn out to be just that.

 

This strikes me as the type of horn that would bring down the Wall not the type of horn that would bind a dragon and I think Moqorro was lying to Vic. I was under the impression that the Targ dragons sorta picked their riders.

 

aaaaRRREEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

The horn he blew was shiny black and twisted, and taller than a man as he held it with both hands. It was bound about with bands of red gold and dark steel, incised with ancient Valyrian glyphs that seemed to glow redly as the sound swelled.  AFFC  The Drowned Man

 

aaaaaaaRRREEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

It was a terrible sound, a wail of pain and fury that seemed to burn the ears. Aeron Damphair covered his, and prayed for the Drowned God to raise a mighty wave and smash the horn to silence, yet still the shriek went on and on. It is the horn of hell, he wanted to scream, though no man would have heard him. AFFC  The Drowned Man

 

And now the glyphs were burning brightly, every line and letter shimmering with white fire. On and on and on the sound went, echoing amongst the howling hills behind them and across the waters of Nagga's Cradle to ring against the mountains of Great Wyk, on and on and on until it filled the whole wet world.

And when it seemed the sound would never end, it did. AFFC The Drowned Man

 

That night, for the first time, he brought forth the dragon horn that the Crow's Eye had found amongst the smoking wastes of great Valyria. A twisted thing it was, six feet long from end to end, gleaming black and banded with red gold and dark Valyrian steel. Euron's hellhorn. Victarion ran his hand along it. ADWD Vic I

 

Strange sorcerous writings had been cut into the bands that girded it. "Valyrian glyphs," Moqorro called them.

That much Victarion had known. "What do they say?"

 

"Much and more." The black priest pointed to one golden band. "Here the horn is named. 'I am Dragonbinder,' it says.

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The horn Vicgtarion has has already been sounded and the Wall has not fallen. Thus, one of two things is true:

 

1) It isn't the Horn of Winter

2) The Horn of Winter doens't literally bring the Wall down.

 

It is amazing to me that so many buy into the fact that the HoW will bring the Wall down and think Victarion's horn is it, but forget that it has already been blown. Must be the same people who think Quentyn is alive.

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The horn Vicgtarion has has already been sounded and the Wall has not fallen. Thus, one of two things is true:

 

1) It isn't the Horn of Winter

2) The Horn of Winter doens't literally bring the Wall down.

 

It is amazing to me that so many buy into the fact that the HoW will bring the Wall down and think Victarion's horn is it, but forget that it has already been blown. Must be the same people who think Quentyn is alive.

first, i don't think that Victarion's horn is the horn of winter/ horn of joraman.

 

however, maybe it needs to be blown in the vicintiy of the wall.  Victarion could simply be too far away for it to have an effect.

Victarion's horn does seem to be a dragon(fire) binding horn though and if you buy into the theory that the wall was built on top of an Ice Dragon then the Horn of Winter could be an ic dragon binding horn that "wakes the sleepers" and the wall collapses as the Ice Dragon(s) emerge.

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Some posters think that Sam’s cracked warhorn banded in bronze, made from auroch horn, and that Jon says makes no sound is the HoW.

 

Aemon thinks that “The Horn of Winter is an ancient legend.”

 

I have to agree that Euron’s horn that Vic is now in procession of has been blown and the Wall did not fall. (But their horn was not blown near the Wall.)

 

‘YouKnowNothingJonSnow’ -  I take it from your statement about Quentyn that you think he’s dead. If so, we agree again.

 

I think Crow’s Eye lied about where he got his horn.  IIRC he became a bit angry when The Reader confronted him about his trip to Valyria.

 

Like ‘Lord Liam DarkStark’ said, “Wouldn't it be nuts if victarion's horn caused the doom. And maybe he'll blow it by slaver's bay and it'll erupt into an abyss.”

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Dany knows that the Valyrians used horns to control the dragons, which allowed flying on them. She hopped on the back of Drogon already, but found it.. quite hard to control it. Why? Because she did not have a Valyrian horn. The one Victarion has with him is known to burn the insides of the men who blow it. Daenerys on the other hand can not be hurt by fire.. It's quite clear and I do not think it has anything to do with the Horn of Joramun. Some secret plot forged between Euron and the Others seems to be out of the question, so I am sticking with the obvious theory.


Aegon had no problem controlling the black dread without a horn, same as his sisters with their dragons and many of their descendants so I don't think that particularly follows. I don't get what Eurons end game is, although I'm not sure that he's really even euron!
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I don't think Moqorro lied to Vic nor am I convinced Dany would need the horn to control Drogon. but reading people's theories had got me thinking that maybe the red priest has plenty of knowledge but not much wisdom a bit like another servant of R'hlor we know well.
Perhaps it is the horn of winter and does bind dragons to its masters will, but only the ice dragon(s) and when blown in the vicinity of the ice dragon(s) will wake the drgon(s) under the wall and cause it to melt the wall.
The main thing I can't align with this theory is how it will ever end up at the wall, I mean if it goes to Dany but proves no use with her dragons why would anyone bother taking it anywhere else?
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'Euron's gifts are poisoned' GRRM keeps mentioning this. Now Euron gave Victorian the horn, but we can't be sure its the same horn he blew at the Kingsmoot, even if it is, it could be a lie that it binds dragons. Victorian has already figured out that blowing the horn kills the person who blows it, and i don't think Euron is stupid enough to believe Victorian wouldn't have figured that out, so why did he give Victorian the horn? It would be stupid to give that horn to his brother, if it did actually work. i think this 'poisonous' gift is that it is actually the Horn of Winter. Who knows, maybe Euron wants Westeros overrun with The Others because of some secret agenda? Or maybe he's waiting for everyone to die so he can claim the throne for himself?

I also think this is the case because we're on to the sixth book and all the horns that were supposed to be 'the horn of winter' have been actually fake, so IMO it would only make sense for a horn that isn't supposed to be the horn of winter, to turn out to be just that.

 

Moqorro tells Victarion that the horn binds dragons to its owner and you can only claim ownership of the horn through blood.  To me that means, you must kill the previous owner in order to make it yours, but Vic is dumb and smears his own blood into it thinking that stakes his claim.  Euron's gift is tainted because he knows Vic will blow the horn (or have someone else blow it for him) and the dragon will then become his own and probably kill Vic and/or the horn blower.  I firmly believe Euron has been following Vic into Slaver's Bay.

 

The horn of Winter (the one Sam has now at Oldtown) could also be a taming horn of old...maybe used for dragons or even an ice dragon.  It's sure to have some kind of magical properties associated with it.

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I am not up to date with the back history of Westeros.

 

I’ve read the Dunk & Eggs stories that are about to be republished and I’ve read the Princess & the Queen/Blacks & Greens and Rogue Prince/Kings Brother. I don’t see how those stories intertwine with ASOIAF (except for the mention of Bloodraven). Nor do I understand the rationale of why it is necessary for the stories to have two different names.

 

While reading those stories I don’t remember that any of the Targs needed a horn to bind their dragon to them.

 

I am thinking that Euron’s and Vic’s horn with its eerie sound is not a dragon binder. If I was dragon and heard that noise I would simply toast the horn blower, but as we know their horn blower is toast.

 

Sam’s horn, the one Jon gave him is described as:

 

 

[…] an old warhorn, made from an auroch's horn and banded in bronze.  ACOK Jon IV

 

 

Does bronze denote a specific period of Westeros history? Does the bronze band imply ownership to “Coldhands” thereby possibly giving his age and how long he has been connected the CotF?

 

Mance’s horn, the one that Mel burned is described as having runes that were carved into the golden bands, in the writing of the First Men.

 

 

"Yes," Mance said. "The Horn of Winter that Joramun once blew to wake giants from the earth." 

 

The horn was huge, eight feet along the curve and so wide at the mouth that he could have put his arm inside up to the elbow. If this came from an aurochs, it was the biggest that ever lived. At first he thought the bands around it were bronze, but when he moved closer he realized they were gold. Old gold, more brown than yellow, and graven with runes. ASOS Jon X

 

Two queen's men brought forth the Horn of Joramun, black and banded with old gold, eight feet long from end to end. Runes were carved into the golden bands, the writing of the First Men. ADWD Jon III

 

 

The wildlings cannot seem to make up their mind; does the Horn of Joramun merely wake the giants? Or is the Horn of Joramun the Horn of Winter that breaks the wall? Are they one and the same or two different things?

 

 

Maester Aemon said, "The Horn of Winter is an ancient legend. ASOS Jon IV

 

 

A description of the Euron/Vic horn:

 

The horn he blew was shiny black and twisted and taller than a man as he held it with both hands. It was bound about with bands of red gold and dark steel, incised with ancient Valyrian glyphs that seemed to glow redly as the sound swelled.  AFFC  The Drowned Man

 

A twisted thing it was, six feet long from end to end, gleaming black and banded with red gold and dark Valyrian steel.  ADWD Vic I

 

The horn that was burned by Mel was banded in old gold and had runes of the First men.

 

The horn that Sam has is banded by bronze, cracked and makes no sound.

 

The horn Crow’s Eye/ Vic have is twisted and incised by ancient Valyrian glyphs.

 

Maybe the horns, like the swords that went missing from the Stark crypt amount to nada.

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On the topic of the Horn of Winer.  I strongly believe that Sam is in possession of it and that the horn has already been blown, accounting for the crack in it.  Upon the blowing of it, it cracked, symbolically signifying the breaking of the wall, summoning the giants that are The Others to move south.  The increase in The Other's presence north of the wall and perhaps the reason why two Whitewalkers were able to be transported and attack Jeor Mormont at CB is because the  magic of the wall is already weakening.  They are testing the waters and will soon realize that the wall/wards that kept them out is losing it's power.  Sam's journey to the Citadel will lead him to find information regarding such and understand the implications of the cracked horn.  

 

It is the Horn of Winter and winter is indeed coming.  Fast.  

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