Alia of the knife Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I definitely wouldn't put it past him. As you say, he we know he had contempt for Elia, I'm sure he popped his top when he found out Rhaegar ran off with Lyanna...On the other hand, could constantly wearing the wolfskin cloak have something to do with JonCon concealing his ever advancing greyscale?I think he was wearing it before too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ribupr Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 One thing i have never been able to understand is why Ned hid Jon from everyone.I dont mean that hiw it sounds. Obviously I get trying to keep him away from war and Lyanna's promise may factor. But it seems the general assumption Ned kept Jon a secret to avoid Robert's wrath at what he may do to Jon.That never made sense to me. Robert chise to spare Dany on his deathbed and I think if Ned told him what happened with Lyanna, Robert would not have done anything from the love he bore the Starks.So as to my question...WHY DID NED KEEP JON A SECRET AND NOT JUST RAISE HIM AS A TARG IN WINTERFELL? because I dont buy the excuse of Roberts wrath.By right of conquest, House Baratheon was the royal family. So Jon would have no claim, and Ned could have raised him to understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfish Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 How can Ned be certain that Robert wouldn't harm Jon? The man condoned Tywin's murder of the children, referred to them as "dragonspawn." There's no telling that he would've listened to reason once Ned told him, which makes it too much of a risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old-Growth Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 More than just a risk: look at what Robert said about making sure that the Targaryens were as dead as their dragons and then pissing on their graves. If Ned had any doubts about the wisdom of what Lyanna asked of him, that should have dispelled them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OberynBlackfyre Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Is it just me, or is anyone else alarmed at the amount of baby switching going on??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaz Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 what baby switching? the only one I know of is the switch between Dalla and Gilly's babies. Are there others?eta: I forgot Aegon.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old-Growth Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Sagaz:See the 28 July, 2012 entry in the SSM collection. Sorry, I am posting from a not so smart phone and could not collect the full URL.Also, I Would bet on Daeron as jon's real name: that would please Jon anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ribupr Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 How can Ned be certain that Robert wouldn't harm Jon? The man condoned Tywin's murder of the children, referred to them as "dragonspawn." There's no telling that he would've listened to reason once Ned told him, which makes it too much of a risk.Yeah but those were pure Targs. I just dont buy him killing LYANNAS son and Neds nephew. Robert loved them more than his own kin. I would bet my life Robert would not have seen Jon as a threat and would have embraced him. Just IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old-Growth Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Do not multiply baby-switches beyond necessity. I do not think there have actually been as many baby-switches as some forum members propose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfish Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Yeah but those were pure Targs.No they weren't. Rhaenys and Aegon were half Dornish.I just dont buy him killing LYANNAS son and Neds nephew. Robert loved them more than his own kin. I would bet my life Robert would not have seen Jon as a threat and would have embraced him. Just IMO.That's fine that you would bet your life on it. But Ned would be betting his life, Jon's life, and the lives of his family. Why should he take such a risk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ribupr Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 No they weren't. Rhaenys and Aegon were half Dornish.That's fine that you would bet your life on it. But Ned would be betting his life, Jon's life, and the lives of his family. Why should he take such a risk?I should have clarified pure targ. I meant non-stark targs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnSnow Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Ned knew how reckless Robert was. He loved him like brother but can never trust his judgement. He never told him about what Lyanna promised him so why would he ever expose Jon to him? PS R + L = J. It is known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buried Treasure Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Yeah but those were pure Targs. I just dont buy him killing LYANNAS son and Neds nephew. Robert loved them more than his own kin. I would bet my life Robert would not have seen Jon as a threat and would have embraced him. Just IMO.I hardly see Robert embracing Jon, but I don't think he would have killed him either. He was presented with the deaths of Aegon and Rhaenys as a fait accompli and didn't order Dany's death until 15 years later when he was a much changed, and lesser, man.The general thought is that Ned kept Jon an absolute secret because that is what he promised her. Her fear of Jon being revealed doesn't mean there was a specific danger from Robert. She was a dying woman about to leave her child an orphan and would have been absolutely terrified for his safety because she would not be around to protect him from anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Wolf Smith Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I hardly see Robert embracing Jon, but I don't think he would have killed him either. He was presented with the deaths of Aegon and Rhaenys as a fait accompli and didn't order Dany's death until 15 years later when he was a much changed, and lesser, man.I disagree. First Ned left because of what happened with R + E kids, no reason to think that Robert wouldn't kill him then. I would also say that 15 years later, when Robert saying more then once how much he still hated R, not much has changed. Even if Ned thinks that Robert wouldn't he could never take the chance. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I hardly see Robert embracing Jon, but I don't think he would have killed him either. He was presented with the deaths of Aegon and Rhaenys as a fait accompli and didn't order Dany's death until 15 years later when he was a much changed, and lesser, man.And pretty much happy that the situation had been dealt with for him, because he would have had to have the deed done, anyway, if he wanted his own rule and dynasty stabilized. He probably wouldn't have the guts to do or order it himself, but he would conveniently look aside and let others act.Where I live, we even have a legend how such things went:Once, before the kingdom was even fully established, the king defeated a mighty rivalling tribe. Upon killing their king, he found out there there he had a little son. He took pity on the boy and assigned a faithful servant to take care of him. However, the servant saw the boy as a future enemy to his liege, and conceded that his king apparently wanted him to take care of this future danger, and so he murdered the boy and presented the king with the boy's head. The king was apalled, and had the murderer hanged, but the deed could not be undone.The general thought is that Ned kept Jon an absolute secret because that is what he promised her. Her fear of Jon being revealed doesn't mean there was a specific danger from Robert. She was a dying woman about to leave her child an orphan and would have been absolutely terrified for his safety because she would not be around to protect him from anything.Most probably, this was a part of the promise. However, I would NEVER let a child's life depend on the whim of a man who had previously condoned murder of children and who is surrounded with cronies eager to win favours with him. Besides, what life would Jon have? One of exile or imprisonment, since as long as he lived, he would have been a threat to Robert and his heirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragontamer Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Yeah but those were pure Targs. I just dont buy him killing LYANNAS son and Neds nephew. Robert loved them more than his own kin. I would bet my life Robert would not have seen Jon as a threat and would have embraced him. Just IMO.As others have said before me the risk would be high enough for Ned to take. And even if Robert didn't order the deed there could always be another "Tywin-like" who would blood his hands instead of Robert, to gain his favor.Additionally, keeping a known Targaryen offspring so close is like offering Targaryen loyalist a cause of rebellion at a time when Robert was still establishing his rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toccs Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Yeah but those were pure Targs. I just dont buy him killing LYANNAS son and Neds nephew. Robert loved them more than his own kin. I would bet my life Robert would not have seen Jon as a threat and would have embraced him. Just IMO.If Robert were to find out the truth about Jon, then he would have to confront what I think he already suspects that Lyanna went with Rhaegar willingly. Under those circumstances I think it is almost certain that Robert would want Jon dead and probably Ned too for keeping it from him. Just look how he reacted when Ned resigned over killing Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnowx2 Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 hi i'm new at this so sorry if it has been asked but i'm doing my first re-read and i'm in the chapter : The prince of Winterfell , where Ramsey and 'Arya' marry but at the end of the chapter when ramsey says to theon that he needs to make her ready he says like : but my lord i ... i don't have a .... What did he meen by that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I think you have this in the wrong thread..... :dunno:Most people assume that Ramsey castrated Theon, as there are some hints towards that, but we don't know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnowx2 Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I think you have this in the wrong thread..... :dunno:Most people assume that Ramsey castrated Theon, as there are some hints towards that, but we don't know for sure.oh i'm sorry the small questions is right onder this one and i pressed the wrong one and thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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