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R+L=J #33


Stubby

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It could just be artist impression, I doubt it can be considered canon.

I agree. Also, we give a lot of attention to those roses. I hope we do get the whole story eventually. I think I will be disappointed if Howland Reed just pops out and tells Jon that he's the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna and we don't really get any more info.

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But the Dornish climate is so different from the Northern, I think it's highly unlikely they would be able to make winter roses grow there, not without today's technology. As I understood it, the rose bushes are just a way of making a reference to the fact that Lyanna is inside, without having the leaves just fall from the sky. But who knows? Maybe there were indeed bushes there, which would explain why Lyanna still seemed to have such flowers around.

Wasn't there something of a greenhouse at Winterfell?

With the hotsprings around, they may have been able to create the environment needed to grow them, whereas the tropical environment of Dorne would provide a more natural way to preserve them.

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Wasn't there something of a greenhouse at Winterfell?

With the hotsprings around, they may have been able to create the environment needed to grow them, whereas the tropical environment of Dorne would provide a more natural way to preserve them.

If they preferred hotter climates, then I doubt they'd be called "winter roses."

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I think they're called winter roses because of their color and because they probably only bloom in winter.

I agree with that, and I think they were exclusive to the North, exclusive to Lyanna, and Rhaegar went to a heck of a lot of trouble to obtain those roses for the crown that he planned on giving Lyanna, because he intended to win that tourney.

The image is more of an expression of the emotional impact of whats happening.

But if the question of the image is whether those are actually "winter" rose bushes growing around the base of the TOJ, then the question was how could they do that, and the assumption is then, they are not exclusive to the North, especially if Rhaegar got his hands on such a crown in Harrenhal in such a short time.

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How could that be? As far as we know Rhaegar and Lyanna only meet for the first time at the tourney before Harrenhal, so if he is trying to get winter roses for Lyanna because he sings the song of Bael the Bard and it moves her to tears, then he has a very short period of time to gather them. If they only grow in a northern climate that seems impossible for him to accomplish, doesn't it? I like the greenhouse guess much better, which would mean if there were someone who grew exotic flowers in the neighborhood of Harrenhal Rhaegar could have found them.

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How could that be? As far as we know Rhaegar and Lyanna only meet for the first time at the tourney before Harrenhal, so if he is trying to get winter roses for Lyanna because he sings the song of Bael the Bard and it moves her to tears, then he has a very short period of time to gather them. If they only grow in a northern climate that seems impossible for him to accomplish, doesn't it? I like the greenhouse guess much better, which would mean if there were someone who grew exotic flowers in the neighborhood of Harrenhal Rhaegar could have found them.

Trying to figure it out.

I thought when Sansa was building her castle, she remembered a greenhouse.

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Roses need care and watering, especially in warm climate. It is possible that they could be grown in Dorne, but they definitely cannot grow on their own around a derelict structure or a mere guards tower.

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Trying to figure it out.

I thought when Sansa was building her castle, she remembered a greenhouse.

Sure, just trying to do the same. You're right about the greenhouse in Winterfell. Both Sansa and Jon talk about it. Quite possibly others as well.

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Roses need care and watering, especially in warm climate. It is possible that they could be grown in Dorne, but they definitely cannot grow on their own around a derelict structure or a mere guards tower.

So no wild winter roses at the ToJ, meaning that Rhaegar or Lyanna or both must have cared for them to grow there.

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Sure, just trying to do the same. You're right about the greenhouse in Winterfell. Both Sansa and Jon talk about it. Quite possibly others as well.

There are definitely glass gardens in WF. I believe when Bran & co emerge from the crypts after the sacking of WF,, they notice they have been destroyed.

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Sure, just trying to do the same. You're right about the greenhouse in Winterfell. Both Sansa and Jon talk about it. Quite possibly others as well.

Okay, I thought so. :)

There are definitely glass gardens in WF. I believe when Bran & co emerge from the crypts after the sacking of WF,, they notice they have been destroyed.

Thanks for that, I went back an re-read it- very sad.

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Also. I think the glass gardens at Winterfell specialized in growing the winter rose. I think that was part of the story of Bael the Bard. The reward he asked for was a winter rose from the glass garden. and he left that rose on the Stark daughter's pillow so he knew what happened to her.

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Also. I think the glass gardens at Winterfell specialized in growing the winter rose. I think that was part of the story of Bael the Bard. The reward he asked for was a winter rose from the glass garden. and he left that rose on the Stark daughter's pillow so he knew what happened to her.

Thanks for the reminder, I thought that was the case.

It feels so good to get something right. :blush:

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Wasn't there something of a greenhouse at Winterfell?

With the hotsprings around, they may have been able to create the environment needed to grow them, whereas the tropical environment of Dorne would provide a more natural way to preserve them.

There was definitely a greenhouse at Winterfell. Sansa remembers it and so does Jon, he thinks they need to build one at the Wall so they can grow through the winter. They also mention how all the plants are dead when we get back to Winterfell when Bolton occupies it.

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I also recall Jon thinking that he wanted the expensive clear glass like used at Winterfell. The cheaper yellow (?) glass would not be suitable. (I wonder why no one else in the Watch's history never thought of greenhouses? Perhaps they had enough men to farm and gather that their stores would last before?)

One thing that poppred out to me on this re-read. (I am about 3/4 the way through the 1st book.) When Jon firsts thinks on his mother, he thinks that she must have been a high born lady. He says that he dreams of her but cannot see her face. Later when he decides to talk to Maester Aemon about Sam, he thinks that she must have been an adulteress. Why else would Ned have been so ashamed of her? Perhaps that shows Jon becoming more jaded? Or - could have both of his thoughts been true? His mother was high born and an adulteresss?

I know that many think Rhaegar married Lyanna, but what if Jon's musings on his mother are somehow true?

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I also recall Jon thinking that he wanted the expensive clear glass like used at Winterfell. The cheaper yellow (?) glass would not be suitable. (I wonder why no one else in the Watch's history never thought of greenhouses? Perhaps they had enough men to farm and gather that their stores would last before?)

One thing that poppred out to me on this re-read. (I am about 3/4 the way through the 1st book.) When Jon firsts thinks on his mother, he thinks that she must have been a high born lady. He says that he dreams of her but cannot see her face. Later when he decides to talk to Maester Aemon about Sam, he thinks that she must have been an adulteress. Why else would Ned have been so ashamed of her? Perhaps that shows Jon becoming more jaded? Or - could have both of his thoughts been true? His mother was high born and an adulteresss?

I know that many think Rhaegar married Lyanna, but what if Jon's musings on his mother are somehow true?

The dream could be a hint of his Targaryen heritage. Inheriting the prophetic dreams and whatnot. I had never really given that much thought until just now so it could be a stretch.

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