Rickon, the Black Wolf.

[freerider]

I wonder if being massacred by a savage person feels all that different than being massacred by an evil person.

well a evil person will torture you to death but a savage person will kill you with a rusty war axe in

[James Arryn]

well a evil person will torture you to death but a savage person will kill you with a rusty war axe in

Is that a distinction you feel comfortable with? With a nod to the God(win)s, the Nazis generally killed as quickly and efficiently as they could, for example. So more savage than evil?

Which gets at my point. I think the distinction between evil and savage probably does exist, but is a nuance normally only detected by people wanting to qualify something as short of evil. I can easily see Rickon coming back as something anyone but a family member or friend would call evil. Not saying he will, just that his early behaviour, reflection via Shaggydog and now life raised by a wildling among cannibals doesn't exactly suggest evil is out of the frame, to me.

[PrinceHenryris]

I'm kind of going crackpot here, but even if Rickon arrives in the North as a child, he still could have help from Bran and Arya.

If Bran can get Summer South of the Wall and get near Shaggydog, Bran give his knowledge to Summer to guide Rickon and Shaggy.

Nymeria's pack could also help Rickon - but I haven't figured out exactly how yet.

I'd love to see the three "True Starks" get together to retake Winterfell.

[the titan of westeros]

The whole point is probably that he's coming back Davos will probably see to that (hopefully he doesn't get killed off trying). When he comes back the north will have someone to rally to again. As of this point in the story i can't see any northerners being ruled by a southerner. Once the boltons are dealt with Rickon will be seated as lord of winterfell. My theory is that bran will contact him and the northmen will either be called to defend the wall or to hold winterfell if the wall falls. Whatever it is i have a feeling that shits going down at winterfell more than once within the next two books.

[The Sleeper]

Which gets at my point. I think the distinction between evil and savage probably does exist, but is a nuance normally only detected by people wanting to qualify something as short of evil. I can easily see Rickon coming back as something anyone but a family member or friend would call evil. Not saying he will, just that his early behaviour, reflection via Shaggydog and now life raised by a wildling among cannibals doesn't exactly suggest evil is out of the frame, to me.

There are many acts which I consider immoral or wrong but there are many people in the world whose survival depends on such acts. It makes no difference on the receiving end and there are consequences on the people performing them but I don't see how outright condemnation serves any purpose.

Back on Rickon. His behaviour is a very typical example of a neglected toddler throwing tantrums. The only thing unusual about it is the mythical monster acting on those impulses. Osha, as someone who he feels safe with and is able to restrain and discipline him is probably the best thing for him right now. Also, we don't know they practice cannibalism on Skagos, in what context they do it (there are numerous examples of tribes ingesting their dead as part of funeral rites) or if they are in Skagos to begin with.

On Shagydog. Counterintuitively to his ferocious (and awesome) appearance and wild behaviour, Shaggydog has not in fact killed anyone. In contrast, Summer, on the surface a lot tamer and friendlier, was the first to take life and is brutally efficient at it when he needs to be. Greywind the most disciplined was ferocious in battle and eventually lost all fear of men and Nymeria has gone so feral as to consider men prey. If the direwolves are an indication of their masters' development, Rickon is the last to worry about.

[SulliedOne]

I think these feelings of fear and helplessness, experienced in young age, often led leaders to future excessive cruelties, like Ivan the Terrible and Peter the Great (or first Ming). And Rickon had it much worse! Scared people can be very cruel, overcompensating for feeling small, and just simply out of fear.

I never got the impression that Rickon was fearful. A fearful kid doesn't hang out in subterranean crypts with a semi-wild wolf. It seems to me that all of his rage against his family leaving was, ultimately, justified. I think Rickon knew they would never return.

The feeling I get is that he has some sort of greensight, like Bran does, but was too young to be able to articulate what he knew was going to happen, in a way his family would believe or understand. Correct me if I am wrong, but I cannot remember a passage where he seems afraid, but he certainly was angry. And I don't think he forgot who was dead and who wasn't, but that his greensight blurred things together (if he does turn out to have some sort of precognition.)

In any case, I really do think Rickon will turn out to be a very important character. If not, why bother having written him into the story to begin with? Certainly he will grow into an angry man, and without the code of honor that limits Eddard, Jon, and Robb's ability to keep their family safe.

[bardstark]

Rickon is definietly like Brandon, his uncle. He will have that streak, but he will level out, since he is still Ned's kid. Osha will teach him, and mother him some way. She will show him tough love cause he needs it. The love that gets you through winter. He will know how to survive, with what she knows, and he will also, from this, better understand Wildling culture like his cousin Jon Snow has experienced.

He will be hard and cold as winter, but still a Stark, honorable and just. I think that when he is older, as the Lord of Winterfell, with the streak of Brandon in him, and with his time with Davos and White Harbor, he will prefer a more unkempt look like his direwolf's name.

But the big thing will be when Davos gets him. He instantly has a father figure again, and a good one at that. Davos has lost many sons, and he will see something in Rickon, and be paternal, picking up from Osha freefolk maternal love. Then going to the loyal Manderlys, he will be raised well, having enough of the North ingrained into him to keep the old gods (Winterfell/Northern exile), but learn the seven in White Harbor having those early memories of his mother with them, and being able to be diplomatically tactful with southron ways.

That southron hospitality, along with his experience with Osha (you know, who willingly saved his life, will have taught and cared for him) will bring about a certain "unexpected" understanding and thus diplomacy with both borders.

He will become the embodiment of "The North Remembers". Rickon the Black Wolf! Lord of Winterfell!

First lesson on arrival in White Harbor: What do the insides of Boltons look like?

[The Sunset King]

Definitely seems like Rickon and Osha are on track to come back with Davos. The possibility that Rickon has been deeply influenced by the society he has encountered on Skagos makes the scenario of him ruling more intriuging. Manderly may be surprised upon learning of what kind of liege lord Seaworth smuggled back, lol.

If it is indeed true that cannibalism is occasionally practiced on Skagos, then it is in the realm of possibility that Rickon has already engaged in it. Not a certainty at all, of couse, but still could be the case. If some Skagosi warriors do decide to join Rickon/Davos/Osha in the Northern mainland, they might exhibit interest in devouring the corpses of the Boltons. This would be a problematic request/interest though, as cannibalism is generally treated as illegal in the Seven Kingdoms (Skagos does not appear to truly count as part of those seven, despite the history of intervention from the North).

Rickon probably will be more receptive to wildling ways than most other northerners. If the influences on him emanating from Skagos are as strong as popular theory holds, he is likely to end up behaving somewhat like the past kings of Winter. Not as Eddard like as the other Starks; perhaps slightly harsher than Stannis.

Another point of interest is what manner of religion is practiced on Skagos. Is it the same as the northerners/wildlings? If so, perhaps the rite of offerings to weirwoods is still in vogue there. Rickon may attempt to convince the northern lords of a perceived need to reinstate blood offerings taken from enemy captives to these trees. This could give the weirwood sacrifice revival a further boost, beyond already what may be shaping up around the Battle of Ice.

[Guardian of the Lhazareen]

This is the ending I wish for, only as the King in the North!!!!!!!!! Rickon is a compleate bad ass

[Jslay427]

Do people really believe that a character like Rickon, with what less then 20 lines in the whole series, is gonna emerge and become a main player and lord of Winterfell/Warden of the North? I like the Starks as much as the next guy but if GRRM pulls this I think it will be a huge mistake.

[tom_saxon]

Reading several pages of this thread and loving it. Then I come about the part of Shaggydog and GRRM as a troll.

Shaggydog story:

In its original sense, a shaggy dog story is an extremely long-winded tale featuring extensive narration of typically irrelevant incidents....The audience listens to the story with certain expectations, which are either simply not met or met in some entirely unexpected manner.^[1] A lengthy shaggy dog story derives its humour from the fact that the joke-teller held the attention of the listeners for a long time (such jokes can take five minutes or more to tell) for no reason at all, as the story ends with a meaningless anticlimax.

I am really starting to wonder if we aren't all being massively trolled by GRRM, and if asoiaf isn't one massive shaggydog story. It fits the definition. I really think he just writes whatever comes into his head at the time and has helpers read through a new manuscript to edit inconsistency for the sake of continuity. I am wondering if the readers don't put more thought into the story and characters than grrm himself. Somehow, sadly, in the end I can see him rich, fat, and happy laughing his ass off about all these people who put their money and thought into something that he finished as anti-climacticaly as possible. It would make him a legendary troll. After Ned got axed GRRM might have said to himself, "holy shit, not only are these idiots still reading, but they are clamouring for me". I can imagine him having drinks with a buddy and he says, "I'll bet I can cut off Robbs head and have his wolves head sewn onto his body with a crown and these fools will still read my books and be more involved than ever" and his buddy says, "No way, your crazy, no one would read your books again after something like that.." and then he did it anyways and here we are.

I don't think this is nescessarily absolutely true, but the possibility of it is strong enough to make me think twice about investing so much thought into this story.

[Jslay427]

I have to say, he must have a HUGE team of editors to make sure his new material fits with previous books, because there is so god damn much stuff that has to be kept in line with what was written previously.

[-Ghost-]

Rickon is a reason I really wish the 5 year gap worked. I would love to see an older version of him. I think he's gonna be awesome.

[tom_saxon]

I have to say, he must have a HUGE team of editors to make sure his new material fits with previous books, because there is so god damn much stuff that has to be kept in line with what was written previously.

Like King Robert Baratheon with his team to make sure all the ends meet while he does his thing. But Robert goes away before his story is done and we are left with a mess lol.

[Ludd]

The Celtic mythologies are I think being played out with the Starks. There is a boy king who flees across the seas to return victorious as ruler - while still young - cannot remember his name but it seems to be Rickon's fate.

Now Bran will survive a long time as a "head" or mythical seer just like the Bran of Welsh legend. Arya seems a bit of a parralel for the goddess Arianrod (a moon goddess).

There are three tribes of Celtic "old gods" - plus the demon monster mob

1. Danu/Beli/Don tribe who rather match Dany and co

2 The children of Nudd who rather seem like Ned and a few of the others - a classic sun god types Robb, Rickon,

3. The children of Lyr who while the opposite of life and are associated with death and the sea, are not evil rather they are necessary opposites - Often presented as twins (Dylan is the sea gos son of Madawadn/Lyr, wheras his brother Gwydion is a sun god). I rather see Mance and blood raven and all of the cave dwellers as this group - Bran is halfway between (just as was the Celtic god Bran)

4. There are all sorts of monsters out there including dragons, serpents, etc. These are evil and dangerous - the Fomor and seem very like the same monsters feared by the Vikings/Germanic tribes

Oh and I see the two babies as sort of the twins - one of the North,. the dark and the caves and one fiercely of the light. Gilly's baby becomes the "dylan" while Mance,s becomes Gwydion

[Ludd]

Rickon will return with an army of firece Skagosi.

Pretty sure that we will find that they ARE relatives - after all we know NOTHING about his paternal Grandma. Why not

I think it is because she is Skagosi.

I am hoping he finds a warm loving Granny and some fierce cousins on Skagosi

[eimorylorts]

maybe rickon is not in age to do something as a player but i can imagine him just because he is very young mounting shagydog ......and now he becomes someone that none wants to meet in battle...

[Brienne Of Bombay]

I don't think Rickon will come back evil. Osha wouldn't let that happen. And also because I believe Stark genes to be good.. :)

[Dolorous K Dilkington]

I see Rickon as growing up more like Stannis than Ramsay/Viserys, especially under the tutelage of Davos. Hot-headed like his uncle and totally merciless, but just.

"I am not without mercy, said he who was notoriously without mercy."

[Patrek Stark]

Reading several pages of this thread and loving it. Then I come about the part of Shaggydog and GRRM as a troll.

Shaggydog story:

I am really starting to wonder if we aren't all being massively trolled by GRRM, and if asoiaf isn't one massive shaggydog story. It fits the definition. I really think he just writes whatever comes into his head at the time and has helpers read through a new manuscript to edit inconsistency for the sake of continuity. I am wondering if the readers don't put more thought into the story and characters than grrm himself. Somehow, sadly, in the end I can see him rich, fat, and happy laughing his ass off about all these people who put their money and thought into something that he finished as anti-climacticaly as possible. It would make him a legendary troll. After Ned got axed GRRM might have said to himself, "holy shit, not only are these idiots still reading, but they are clamouring for me". I can imagine him having drinks with a buddy and he says, "I'll bet I can cut off Robbs head and have his wolves head sewn onto his body with a crown and these fools will still read my books and be more involved than ever" and his buddy says, "No way, your crazy, no one would read your books again after something like that.." and then he did it anyways and here we are.

I don't think this is nescessarily absolutely true, but the possibility of it is strong enough to make me think twice about investing so much thought into this story.

Heresy!