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Azureguy

Sympathy For Joffrey

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Another classic symptom that stood out for me was his fake charm at the beginning of the first book. The way he won Sansa over so easily with his "my Lady"-ing and gallantry was terrifying.

Here is the only thing I cannot blame Joff for... Lady Sansa is most comely! :wub:

I have to admit the boy had good taste for women. Sansa is so hot!

Although I highly suspect Joff was only into her because she was a Stark and heir to Winterfell and the North.

But then again that scene in the series where Joff literally sodomizes two girls sent to him by Tyrion with a rather large Stag-shapped scepter was a little sadistic!

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I have to admit the boy had good taste for women. Sansa is so hot!

Sansa was at that time 11 or 12 years old. Hadn't had her first period yet. She's "so hot"? Interesting..................

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I have always felt sympathy for him. He's twelve for pity's sake. I teach kids who have social problems and bad home lives. I see what it can do to them, lots of pent up anger, lashing out, a desire to cause pain. They lack decent role models in their home life and it's very hard to give them a set of boundaries and social skills in the few hours you see them in per week. Imo, a child is 'innocent' until the age of about 16/17. That's when they have to take all they've learnt and become an adult. Joffrey was never given the chance to do this because he was made king at twelve, long long long before he was ready.

I agree completely. Especially since his number one adult figure was THE HOUND. He was around him more than anyone. No wonder he was so violent and sadistic.

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Another classic symptom that stood out for me was his fake charm at the beginning of the first book. The way he won Sansa over so easily with his "my Lady"-ing and gallantry was terrifying.

Gods. can you imagine their child having warg powers? terrifying.

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I hope you change your mind about Jaime during AFFC. He does some impressive shit.

I definitely changed my mind about Jaime during AFfC. And I'm actually about to read his chapter in ADwD.

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I did not have any trouble when Joff finally got what he had comming ever since he ordered Ned Stark to be beheaded. I thought it was a very intense scene that was very suprising and sudden, but I did not feel bad for Joff after all of the bad things he had done.

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Tut tut. He's a boy. How do you know, if he had just been given tuition by someone *decent* how he could have turned out?

And yes, I do place some of the blame at Jaime's feet. As a member of the Kingsguard, he could have found some pretence to spend time with Joffrey as he grew up to teach him some of his own sense of honour.

I see your point. But from as much as I have gathered about Jaime's character, I don't think he has any interest in his children. He would spend time with Joff if Cersei told him to do so. He only cared about Cersei, his love of life and somewhat about Tyrion. His sense of honor comes from the Lannister Pride. His is the honor of a Lannister and a member of the Kingsguard..It has nothing to do with teaching children anything. But i don't know...i've only read till the pre-RW phase of ASOS. i can only assume how his character evolves afterwards. but then again, since when have assumptions worked out in the saga?

Tyrion tried to instill some decency in Joffrey but Cersei was always there to spoil everything.

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The boy did not have one shred of decency about him. No nobility, no honor, no love (except for himself), no mercy. He was evil through and through and would have only done more harm had he lived. His death was equal to his life. I don't think anyone could have saved him because he was too loathed by all. Someone would have had him killed eventually.

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i reserved the sympathy for tyrion. and somehow, it never really registered to me that Joff was a 12-year old kid. he did gruesome things that i'm betting would make ramsay at least blush. i'm just surprised that his death came all too sudden. i wanted him to last a little bit further on to see the horrors that would befall his family.

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I think he should be prisoner to Ramsay for let's say 2-3 months....and then I would feel sorry for him

I wouldn't feel bad for him, but this would be fitting punishment for Joffrey. lol

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I ooze sympathy and I didn't feel sorry for Joffrey. I did feel a twinge of sympathy for Cersei because she's a mom who lost her child, though I lay the blame for the nastiness that was Joffrey squarely at her feet. I'm in the middle of AFFC now and reading her chapters and she seriously creeps me out b/c she's clearly got something mentally wrong with her. GRRM is a great writer to be able to go into a mind like hers and relay it to us. But it also helps confirm, at least for me, that some of Joff's mental illness may have been hereditary.

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Nope. No sympathy. Felt a little for Cersei since I'm a mother of three, but hey, she bought in to creating this narcissistic prig. None.

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Nope, GRRM gave us enough reasons for us to be glad he died while making eye contact with Tyrion, who was towering over him.

I was convinced when I read about the part where he opened up a pregnant cat with a dagger and brought the pups to Robert.

Robert's bastards grew up in far worse conditions and they all ended up considerably saner.

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Being 12 doesn't excuse him from being a major douche. Arya, Bran, Sansa are all younger than him and they don't behave in the same way he does. Not saying that he didn't have any predisposition to being a terrible person, just that age isn't a reason to excuse his behaviour. Younger characters have shown much more maturity than he does.

I understand feeling sympathetic for him, even though I don't. The only time I started to doubt how much of a "monster" he was was when Tyrion was recalling the story of Bran and the dagger. I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something along the lines of Joffrey wanting to impress his father so badly he sent someone to kill Bran. Everything he does, he does for attention because both his parents are royal failures. But still, that doesn't quite win him sympathy in my book.

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Joffrey is a character that does not evoke much sympathy.

I think a number of reasons have already been covered but for me it is the complete lack of remorse, gratitude and sense of entitlement.

He is full of malice much of which I might overlook but he completly fails to feel for the people, one senses he would kill everyone and rule himself. He has no idea of what a king is. He expects fealty and sacrifice from all whilst discharging none of his kingly duties. It is the most unforgivble. He even dares to be rude to Tywin, the man who saved his kingdom.

No I cheered when he died, no leess than he deserved - and sadly the majority of the blame lies with Cersei who installs his sense of entitlement with none of the duty, she has no love for the "commons". She is the one purring in his ear and loses control of him completly but makes no move to remedy it.

As ever I think Tywin has it best after he reminds Joffrey of the greatest wisdom in the book after he declared all traitors to be killed and for Sansa to kiss Robb's head at a feast:

"When you enemies defy you, you must serve them steel and fire. Whey they go to their knees, however you must help them back to their feet. Elsewise no man will ever bend the knee to you".

However the self same Tywin also declares that "the boy is thirteen. There is time yet" .

If they could of isolated him from Cersei who protected him from truth there may of been hope albeit it appears he was naturally sadastic.

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