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The Wise Man's Fear IX [Spoilers & Speculation]


thistlepong

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The current line of thinking is the Maer's letter-of-not-patronage is enough to get Kvothe into Roderic's court, or the library they talk about in Renere and that Kvothe's winning personality does the bulk of the work. It sorta resolves the Maer needing to be penitent about something.

Roderic being killed is a great idea, but I wonder how Ambrose plays into this. There's always been suspicion that his family killed off the other family (forgot the name) that was higher in the order of succession. Their Barony is the Pirate Isles, and as Sim pointed out, they would be perfectly able to cause serious damage to someone at sea.

Could it be that Ambrose manipulates Kvothe into killing Roderic? Or, as some have speculated, causes the deaths of others above him in the order of succession, so he ends up as King when Roderic dies?

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The current line of thinking is the Maer's letter-of-not-patronage is enough to get Kvothe into Roderic's court, or the library they talk about in Renere and that Kvothe's winning personality does the bulk of the work. It sorta resolves the Maer needing to be penitent about something.

But I was almost sure Kvothe and the Maer meet up again. If anything, Kvothe needs to get another shot at the lockless box, and the Maer needs to help him with the question of the Amyr.

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I've decided to take an in-depth look at the Lackless rhymes. Apart from looking through the books, I also searched through the forum and as such have expanded the Lackless Rhymes section of the post on page 1. The goal of this post isn't to come up with one large comprehensive theory, but to explore possibilities, and as such I may put forth conflicting ideas.

First, I'll talk about them as a whole and then go through line by line.

What are these rhymes about? Well the second one is about the things before the Lackless door. Most people seem to assume that the first one has the same topic because of all of the similarities between the rhymes. It is actually about the things Lady Lackless has; these may in fact be the same things, but maybe they aren't or maybe some are and others aren't. Perhaps the second rhyme is older and then some time later someone decided to make a bawdy rhyme about Lady Lackless, using what he knew about Lacklesses including the older rhyme. Perhaps the first rhyme isn't even about one Lady Lackless; maybe it's been altered over time and now includes things pertaining to multiple Lady Lacklesses.

Now to look closely at each rhyme, starting with the second one Kvothe hears.

Seven things stand before

The entrance to the Lackless door.

The popular interpretation is that the seven things are needed to open the Lackless door. The wording doesn't really say that though. For one thing the seven things are before the entrance to the Lackless door, not before the Lackless door itself, so they would be needed to reach the Lackless door but would not open it. Also, if the entrance is a door, then that means there are three doors, not just two.

Also, the things are said to already stand before the entrance to the Lackless door; no finding and gathering of them is necessary, they're already there. Are they like landmarks to show where the door is? Are the obstacles to be overcome? Now despite what I just said, I still lean toward the seven things being requirements that must be brought there with maybe an obstacle/landmark thrown in.

One of them a ring unworn

Unworn could mean that it is not worn like an accessory or article of clothing. It could mean that it has not been adversely affected by time or use. It could mean that it is not wearied or exhausted.

A ring could be something that is generally worn around a finger. It could be objects or people arranged in a circular formation. It could refer to a ringing sound.

Previously nominated candidates for the ring include: Meluan's wooden ring, the unbroken Edema Ruh circle, Stapes' bone ring, Auri's ring that keeps secrets

Candidates I haven't seen: circle of grey stones (there's one in Kvothe's story of Sceop), the ringing of a bell (sounds like this are repeated a lot in the books)

One a word that is forsworn

A forsworn word could be a lie, a denial, a broken promise, or a word that has been sworn not to be used anymore.

It's been suggested that this is a password, or that one must give up their name.

Examples I have found of words (names mostly) that people don't like to hear or speak include: Cthaeh (see Bast's reaction), Iax (Felurian won't say the name), Tehlu (one of Pike's friends doesn't like the name uttered in vain), Chandrian (people clam up when asked about the Chandrian), the names of the Chandrian. And of course Lanre gave up his name, and Kvothe is believed to have lost his.

EDIT: Sceop forgot his name.

One a time that must be right

Most people think this has to do with the phases of the moon. Mourning could also fit the bill since that is the holy day and people should act right. If you're looking for something that can actually physically stand before the entrance of the Lackless door, a sympathy clock or even a sundial could work.

EDIT: The tale of Sceop is on a moonless night, the tale includes a few other things that could work for the other lines in the rhymes.

One a candle without light

Past suggestions include: a sympathy candle, Haliax's candle, Auri's candle.

Unless you believe the rhyme is prophetic, I would rule out the rhyme referring specifically to Auri's candle since she made it herself. Though without being prophetic the rhyme could refer to candles like hers so her candle could be sufficient.

One a son who brings the blood

Most think this means a male member of a certain bloodline; either one must be sacrificed or only one can gain access to the door. The most popular candidate is Kvothe himself. Aculeus Lackless and Bast have also been put forth. Another possibility could be Meluan's son if she has one. It could also mean that to reach the door, one must be able to draw blood; or it could mean that there is a guardian there that can draw blood. One possibility is Tehlu, son of himself, who is also pretty violent; but really there would be many possible guardians.

One a door that holds the flood

The flood can be water or something else. Many believe it is a flood of faen invaders (scrael, skin-dancers, and the like). A door of the mind has also been put forth as being this door. If the flood is water, the door can let it to or away from the entrance to the Lackless door. Letting water to it may let one float up to it. Letting water away from it may mean the Lackless door is kept underwater by a dam or a smaller door in an indoor or subterranean setting. It could mean the Lackless door is just surrounded by water rather than submerged.

One a thing tight-held in keeping

It's been suggested that this thing is a secret, as per Teccam's talk of secrets of the heart. So would this be like a secret trick to get past something? Would it be a password? It's also been suggested that the thing tight-held is inside the Loeclos box.

Then comes that which comes with sleeping

Dreaming used to be popular here. Now naming is most popular because of its reliance on the sleeping mind. Shaping has also been suggested since Felurian refers to them as proud dreamers.

This is after the seven things before the entrance to the Lackless door. So is this needed to open the Lackless door, or does this lie beyond the Lackless door?

And now on to the first rhyme Kvothe hears. Looking at it to learn about the Lackless door may lead us astray, but it could possibly help. Even if it doesn't help with the Lackless door, it could help understand the Lacklesses.

Seven things has Lady Lackless

Keeps them underneath her black dress

Is this really a black dress? If so, what does it signify? Some have suggested it's a mourning dress, but I don't recall anything in the book to suggest mourners wear black dresses. The only other black dress I remember is the black gown Fela wore when she was keeping Ambrose away from his room. It's been suggested that the black dress is actually something like Kvothe's shaed. Another suggestion is that the black dress is the battlefield of the Blac of Drossen Tor.

One a ring that's not for wearing

Similar wording to "One of them a ring unworn." Possibly uses the wrong definition of "unworn." The same rings could work here with the exception of Auri's ring since she has no problem with putting it on Kvothe's finger.

One a sharp word, not for swearing

A sharp word could be an argument. It could be a word painful to hear. "Felurian sat upright. She passed her hand before her eyes and spoke a word as sharp as shattered glass. There was a pain like thunder in my head. Darkness flickered at the edges of my sight. I tasted blood and bitter rue" (WMFc97). Not for swearing may use a different definition of "forsworn." Does it mean the word isn't used in anger? It could mean the word has a power of its own separating it from the words normally used for cursing. It could mean the word can be used for swearing or swearing on, but shouldn't be.

Right beside her husband's candle

Not a lot to go on here.

There's a door without a handle

Sounds like the Lackless door Caudicus described to Kvothe. Also matches the four-plate door in the archives. Waystones have also been suggested as doors without handles.

In a box, no lid or locks

This matches the Loeclos box.

Lackless keeps her husband's rocks

Many people believe this to be the obsidian Selitos used to put out his eye. The rocks could also be her husband's secrets since Teccam likens secrets to stones.

There's a secret she's been keeping

Very mysterious...

She's been dreaming and not sleeping

Why is Lady Lackless dreaming? Besides naming, Elodin also says that dreams are governed by the sleeping mind. Without the sleeping, this once again sounds like naming/shaping. Daydreaming is possible.

On a road, that's not for traveling

The most interesting guess I can come up with is the Lethani, since it isn't a path one physically travels. For all I know the road to Tinuë also fits here.

EDIT 1: The road to Tinuë may fit better than I originally thought since Tinuë used to be owned by the Lacklesses.

EDIT 2: The story about Sceop says all roads meet at Faeriniel, but it is not a place to travel to.

EDIT 3: In Jax's story, all roads pass through Tinuë

EDIT 4: There's also Tehlu's path

Lackless likes her riddle raveling

Most connect raveling with the Edema Ruh. It's also popular to suggest that this line refers to Netalia Lackless running off with one of the Edema Ruh. It sort of ignores the riddle part of the line though. Of note, the words "ravel" and "unravel" can mean the same thing. Riddle raveling could mean making riddles or solving them or both.

Any one of the lines in these rhymes (especially the Lady Lackless rhyme) could have much more mundane meanings than put forth here. Trying to find things that fit both rhymes may be what we should do, maybe not. I haven't done it here but it is easy enough to do. One thing that I think would be very helpful is finding out how these rhymes are translated into other languages, most especially for the words "ring unworn," "forsworn," "raveling," and maybe "flood."

Edit: Added more to the road not for traveling, a time that must be right, and forsworn word.

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Ever the good friend, Wilem stepped in with a distracting question. “What is that pause you keep doing?” he asked. “It’s like you can’t catch your breath.”

“I asked that too,” Fela said, smiling.

“It’s something they use in Eld Vintic verse,” Sim explained. “It’s a break in the line called a caesura."

Note that it’s Eld Vintic verse. Note that Calanthis is the Eld Vintic name for flits. Note that the royal line, Alveron’s word chosen rather than family, bears an Eld Vintic name. Caesura is meant to break an Eld Vintic line.

Just to point out - a caesura is not the end of a line (in poetry at least). It's a pause in the middle of a line, a line which resumes shortly. I'm not sure if this changes the interpretation of the text at all - maybe there is an interregnum?

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ahh sorry for the double post i'm a terrible forum member

...

One a son who brings the blood

Most think this means a male member of a certain bloodline; either one must be sacrificed or only one can gain access to the door. The most popular candidate is Kvothe himself. Aculeus Lackless and Bast have also been put forth. Another possibility could be Meluan's son if she has one. It could also mean that to reach the door, one must be able to draw blood; or it could mean that there is a guardian there that can draw blood. One possibility is Tehlu, son of himself, who is also pretty violent; but really there would be many possible guardians.

One a door that holds the flood

The flood can be water or something else. Many believe it is a flood of faen invaders (scrael, skin-dancers, and the like). A door of the mind has also been put forth as being this door. If the flood is water, the door can let it to or away from the entrance to the Lackless door. Letting water to it may let one float up to it. Letting water away from it may mean the Lackless door is kept underwater by a dam or a smaller door in an indoor or subterranean setting. It could mean the Lackless door is just surrounded by water rather than submerged.

...

Then comes that which comes with sleeping

Dreaming used to be popular here. Now naming is most popular because of its reliance on the sleeping mind. Shaping has also been suggested since Felurian refers to them as proud dreamers.

This is after the seven things before the entrance to the Lackless door. So is this needed to open the Lackless door, or does this lie beyond the Lackless door?

And now on to the first rhyme Kvothe hears. Looking at it to learn about the Lackless door may lead us astray, but it could possibly help. Even if it doesn't help with the Lackless door, it could help understand the Lacklesses.

Of note: blood is an important theme throughout the book. As far as I can remember, it has associations with sympathetic (is that the adjectival form? sympathic?) and sygaldric power more than with family trees and bloodlines (though this could be confirmation bias).

Off the top of my head:

  1. The scrael have no blood
  2. However, Bast does - "Five fingers and flesh with blood beneath."
  3. "The other seven cities, lacking Selitos' power, found their safety elsewhere. They put their trust in thick walls, in stone and steel. They put their trust in strength of arm, in valor and bravery and blood. And so they put their trust in Lanre." - This could be a comparison of the power of sympathy versus that of naming? Or just plain violence.
  4. Selitos: "By the power of my own blood I bind you."
  5. "At the desk sat a young man who looked to be a full-blooded Ceald, with the characteristic ruddy complexion and dark hair and eyes." - This is actually the very first reference to blood as in bloodlines (and I skipped a bunch where blood was just blood as in violence).
  6. "My father's stables have longer bloodlines than half you Aturan nobles"
  7. Sovoy: "My blood goes back fifty generations, older than tree or stone."
  8. "Blood and clay" - a mommet for malfeasance
  9. The infirmary hangs on to people's blood as an implied threat against skipping out on payment
  10. "I even started a few rumors that were pure nonsense, lies so outrageous that people would repeat them despite the fact that they were obviously untrue. I had demon blood in me."
  11. Kvothe the Bloodless
  12. Blood given to Devi
  13. Drawing sympathy power from blood (binder's chills)
  14. "I was so deeply in the music that I couldn't have told you where it stopped and my blood began."
  15. "Is it true that the Modegan nobility regard haggling as a contemptible activity for those of any highborn station?" I asked innocently. "I heard that they consider it a sure sign that the person is either possessed of low blood or fallen on truly desperate times. ..."

  16. Threpe chuckled. "Let's not carry the analogy too far. I'll be your matchmaker instead. I'll help you toward a proper patron. I know everyone with blood or money for fifty miles, so it shouldn't be that hard."

  17. Deoch: "In part I think it is her nature. It could be she simply has wandering blood."

  18. "I do have a Khershaen. A full-blood actually."

and that's just in NotW (I don't have an e-book of WMF)

So out of 18 references to blood that aren't just "he was bleeding due to injury" we have seven that associate blood with power of some kind and eight that associate it with lines of descent (and then a few others that seemed meaningful but unclassifiable). That seems like enough to justify paying attention to the role of blood, not just in bloodlines and ancestry, but in what it means for magic.

And as for "that which comes with sleeping" - I tend to parse that line as "after the Lackless door opens, you get that which comes with sleeping." This makes me think that perhaps the Lackless door is less a physical door and more a door shut and locked in the mind, behind which lies the sleeping mind or whatever.

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Just to point out - a caesura is not the end of a line (in poetry at least). It's a pause in the middle of a line, a line which resumes shortly. I'm not sure if this changes the interpretation of the text at all - maybe there is an interregnum?

It doesn't. Surprisingly it might actually open it up a little. Why is there a rebellion against the Penitent King? What is the truth about Princess Ariel?

Hopefully the external links demonstrated some familiarity with caesuras. What I like about this flash was that it worked more like hands clasping, fingers overlapping, coming together. And it reverberates across the text via multiple modes of interpretation.

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One of them a ring unworn

Unworn could mean that it is not worn like an accessory or article of clothing. It could mean that it has not been adversely affected by time or use. It could mean that it is not wearied or exhausted.

A ring could be something that is generally worn around a finger. It could be objects or people arranged in a circular formation. It could refer to a ringing sound.

Previously nominated candidates for the ring include: Meluan's wooden ring, the unbroken Edema Ruh circle, Stapes' bone ring, Auri's ring that keeps secrets

Candidates I haven't seen: circle of grey stones (there's one in Kvothe's story of Sceop), the ringing of a bell (sounds like this are repeated a lot in the books)

I will quote a person who commented on tor regarding the unworn ring:

It's almost conclusive from the Finnish translation that the ring is not a ring you would wear on your finger, but a loop in a boarder sense. Something like a circle of greystones.
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It's almost conclusive from the Finnish translation that the ring is not a ring you would wear on your finger, but a loop in a boarder sense. Something like a circle of greystones.:

I dearly wish folks (not you, necessarily) would provide a chain-of-custody type link to where they (at least) find this kind of thing. I actually vaguely remember the op for this, but my kung fu isn't strong enough to find it this morning. And, for some reason, I remember it being a translation other than Finnish. It's not that I question Silkki, really. It's just that after a few folks quote a quote of a quote it's less robust as a bit of evidence.

I'm totally guilty of handwaving stuff myself from time to time, too. On the other hand I usually note that's what I'm doing rather than stating it flat out. Saves a lot of time and all that.

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Seven things stand before

The entrance to the Lackless door.

The popular interpretation is that the seven things are needed to open the Lackless door. The wording doesn't really say that though. For one thing the seven things are before the entrance to the Lackless door, not before the Lackless door itself, so they would be needed to reach the Lackless door but would not open it. Also, if the entrance is a door, then that means there are three doors, not just two.

Also, the things are said to already stand before the entrance to the Lackless door; no finding and gathering of them is necessary, they're already there. Are they like landmarks to show where the door is? Are the obstacles to be overcome? Now despite what I just said, I still lean toward the seven things being requirements that must be brought there with maybe an obstacle/landmark thrown in.

Dingbat theory: The seven things are the Chandrian, and they're the guardians/captors of the shaper shut beyond the doors of stone. "The candle without light" and the "door that holds the flood" etc are descriptions of them.

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Of note: blood is an important theme throughout the book. As far as I can remember, it has associations with sympathetic (is that the adjectival form? sympathic?) and sygaldric power more than with family trees and bloodlines (though this could be confirmation bias).

...

That seems like enough to justify paying attention to the role of blood, not just in bloodlines and ancestry, but in what it means for magic.

You may be right. I just find it hard to believe that it's just saying you need blood for sympathy, since just being there means that you've got blood there. Blood isn't exactly a hard thing to come by, we all have it. And what would you sympathetically use the blood for anyway? It just doesn't seem likely to me.

It's almost conclusive from the Finnish translation that the ring is not a ring you would wear on your finger, but a loop in a boarder sense. Something like a circle of greystones.

Here I found Jo quoting Silkki:

I just noticed finnish translation of NotW at my library. I picked it up and read few pages and couldn’t help but notice something. I don’t have english version of the book here so forgive any mistakes made.

Lady Lackless has a ring not for wearing. Right?

The word ring translated not as a ring that you use on your fingers (sormus), but as a more general term for a loop. (Rengas)

Sounds like Finnish has a word for wearable rings that wasn't used, but the word used could still refer to them. I may need to actually read all the Tor Reread blogs and comments. There's some good stuff there. I've been avoiding it for years now because the layout doesn't look easy to read. EDIT: And also I find it annoying keeping up with two groups working separately toward the same goal. I'd feel I have to post things in each location and then I'd have to keep track of the things said in each so I don't post something already said in one location or assume people have read something not available at their location.

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In a box, no lid or locks

This matches the Loeclos box.

I forgot to say that some people mention Jax's box for this. I feel I should point out that his box is specifically said to have a lid.

EDIT:

On a road, that's not for traveling

The most interesting guess I can come up with is the Lethani, since it isn't a path one physically travels. For all I know the road to Tinuë also fits here.

EDIT 1: The road to Tinuë may fit better than I originally thought since Tinuë used to be owned by the Lacklesses.

EDIT 2: The story about Sceop says all roads meet at Faeriniel, but it is not a place to travel to.

EDIT 3: In Jax's story, all roads pass through Tinuë

EDIT 4: There's also Tehlu's path

And here I forgot to mention the broken road Jax lived on. It may be symbolic of not following the Lethani anymore or something like that. People shouldn't follow the broken road, but Jax and the tinker don't seem to have any trouble doing it.

Dingbat theory: The seven things are the Chandrian, and they're the guardians/captors of the shaper shut beyond the doors of stone. "The candle without light" and the "door that holds the flood" etc are descriptions of them.

I had briefly considered this but decided too many lines didn't really match up with the Chandrian.

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Here I found Jo quoting Silkki:

Sounds like Finnish has a word for wearable rings that wasn't used, but the word used could still refer to them. I may need to actually read all the Tor Reread blogs and comments. There's some good stuff there. I've been avoiding it for years now because the layout doesn't look easy to read. EDIT: And also I find it annoying keeping up with two groups working separately toward the same goal. I'd feel I have to post things in each location and then I'd have to keep track of the things said in each so I don't post something already said in one location or assume people have read something not available at their location.

Thanks, jumbles. There are a few bits of conventional wisdom that are seeming more apocryphal every time someone mentions them, so it's nice to get at the originals when we can. I should use one of those saved posts for "you heard it /(here)/ firsts" and another for "links recovered via wayback machine." Eventually.

As for following multiple discussions it's perfectly doable once you're caught up, though IIRC the Reread easily outweighs every other discussion. I never felt the need to cross post everything.

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Full disclosure: I have nothing to say about the Lackless poems other than interjecting here and there with random symbolism and old ideas other folks had.

I forgot to say that some people mention Jax's box for this. I feel I should point out that his box is specifically said to have a lid.

I mean this sincerely. That is the kind of pedantry that makes me swoon.

And here I forgot to mention the broken road Jax lived on. It may be symbolic of not following the Lethani anymore or something like that. People shouldn't follow the broken road, but Jax and the tinker don't seem to have any trouble doing it.

There's a symbolic meaning to that road that could, maybe even does, work. The broken road is a failed alchemical opus, an incomplete great work. The broken house is the alembic destroyed. Ultimately it's exactly the same metaphor you get from the story anyway, though. Jax's world is used up and boring and he makes a new one.

I'm obligated by geas to rag on the Lethani once every few months and here's as good a place as any. As we know it, from one school out of at least dozens, the Lethani exists to further the interests of the Adem. While at one point Tempi suggests a definition that fits well with a road not for traveling, we need to remember that beating up folks in a bar is of the Lethani. I'm not sure how that fits with either the poem or "The Boy Who Loved the Moon."

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I am tempted to sig "pedantry that makes me swoon." Or perhaps it should be someone's custom title?

I can't afford the $500 to trademark it in online forum contexts, so you're free to appropriate and deploy it as you see fit.

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Then comes that which comes with sleeping

Dreaming used to be popular here. Now naming is most popular because of its reliance on the sleeping mind. Shaping has also been suggested since Felurian refers to them as proud dreamers.

This is after the seven things before the entrance to the Lackless door. So is this needed to open the Lackless door, or does this lie beyond the Lackless door?

I think if we're making a list of possibilities, we should list a couple from the following as well:

First is the door of sleep. Sleep offers us a retreat from the world and all its pain. Sleep marks passing time, giving us distance from the things that have hurt us. When a person ist wounded they will often fall unconscious. Similarly, someone who hears traumatic news will often swoon and taint. This ist the mind's way of protecting itself from pain by stepping through the first doo

I nominate "the passage of time" and the "release from pain" as possibilities for "that which comes with sleeping"

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Okay, last night I finished reading two of Jo's posts and all the comments: The Road to Tinue and Sleeping under the wagon. The main thing I gained from all that reading was a headache. If you have read the threads on this forum or the summarizing post on page one, then skip over those two of Jo's blog posts and straight to the Rereads. In all that monstrous amount of text I only found one interesting thing that wasn't on this forum: stevenhalter suggested that the Cthaeh is influencing events via the Butterfly Effect by killing the butterflies around its tree.

I have updated the summarizing post on page one. I renamed the subsection Locations of Ergen's Cities to Creation War Locations and added a few of thistlepong's posts suggesting the Blac of Drossen Tor was at Severen. I also added a subsection called Denna's Role in Book 3. Right now it only has a couple of my posts because that's all I could remember. If there are other posts that belong there, please let me know! Though please realize that it is more for how important she is to the story, not for specific theories about what she does/is.

About Encanis, I think his story is exaggerated much like Kvothe's is. Encanis may have existed, but parts of his story are borrowed from other stories, such as the Creation War, the Chandrian, and Tehlu. Encanis may have been involved with those things (especially if he is the Cthaeh, Iax, or Haliax), but I think the purpose of adding Encanis's story to the book wasn't so we would puzzle out who Encanis was, but to provide clues about other more relevant things.

Regarding Auri and Bredon

I searched for this first bit and didn't find it on this forum. It's so obvious it must be here somewhere though; either I searched for the wrong words, the poster(s) misspelled the words, or it's so obvious no one thought it worth posting. First of all Auri's hair resembles a halo (Google didn't find anything on this forum with Auri and halo, but I'm sure I've read that on here before). In our world people might associate halos with angels. We don't know if halos are symbolic of angels in the Four Corners though. It would be heartbreaking if Kvothe fought (and possibly killed) Auri though. And I realize the "Auri is the angel Kvothe fights" idea has been suggested before. I'm just adding the halo bit that probably has also been said but I failed to find.

Besides Auri, the only other mention of halos I found in the books is Bredon, and for him, it is also his hair that resembles one. It may also be noteworthy that he has "a beatific smile" (WMFc65). Besides relating to happiness, beatific can relate to holiness or mean saintly or angelic. Besides the link to angels, this could hint at a link to Auri by similarity, affiliation, or in a familial sense.

EDIT: Also, it comes to mind that a halo could be a ring unworn.

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It probably won't get interesting for awhile, to be honest. There's some cross pollination all the way through, but here and there a comment might jar something loose in your head. It's kind of interesting that he called out the butterfly effect so early. It seems to be bearing fruit now in a more literal sense. And it's sort of obviously how the Cthaeh appears to work.

Late in the reread I finally put together a monster post on the symbolism of Encanis that, I noticed today, missed something fairly odd. I'm in provisional agreement about the story's transitive function, I think. Anyway, It's got the whole shattering stone thing when Encanis screams. That pops up in two other places: when Selitos curses Lanre his voice tears stone from the mountain, and the sandy-haired fella who recognizes Kvothe notes that the stones in front of the Eolian are shattered and no one can mend them.

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It probably won't get interesting for awhile, to be honest. There's some cross pollination all the way through, but here and there a comment might jar something loose in your head. It's kind of interesting that he called out the butterfly effect so early. It seems to be bearing fruit now in a more literal sense. And it's sort of obviously how the Cthaeh appears to work.

Yeah, I figured the Cthaeh killing butterflies was more Rothfuss punning on the butterfly effect, but taking it literally is an interesting idea.

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Yeah, I figured the Cthaeh killing butterflies was more Rothfuss punning on the butterfly effect, but taking it literally is an interesting idea.

It re-emerged with the Kingkiller theory I put on the end of the last page. Folks started trying to count and correlate the other butterflies. I wasn't exactly convinced they were significant. However, since I spent scores of words on why one in particular was important, I'm leery of dismissing it out of hand.

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Okay, I read the first three parts of the Name of the Wind reread. First off, I took about 2 1/2 hours to teach myself CSS and find out how to use it to make the Tor site more readable for me. Mission accomplished, the site now fills my whole screen instead of appearing as a narrow column endlessly scrolling down the middle of my screen. These parts were better and didn't give me a headache. The interesting comments I saw:

  1. Psyzygy points out how ordering that expensive mounting board should have attracted attention

  2. kineta suggests that Lady Lackless's black dress means a night with no moon

  3. Rutep points out that black does seem to be implied to be a mourning color in the Four Corners

  4. JordanBelle points out the aural similarity between Jax and Jakis

  5. I have also included four comments on how sympathy and sygaldry work in the indexing post

I like the black dress being a night with no moon. It could match up with the "time that must be right" from the other rhyme. But if it does mean a night with no moon in reference to the Lackless Door, it challenges how I was thinking of the rhymes. It adds new information not present in the rhyme I had believed to be older and more specifically about the Lackless Door. How could the newer rhyme with questionable subject and sources have more accurate information than the more original rhyme?

Unrelated things I thought of:

Perial from Trapis's story did not have sex to get pregnant. Who doesn't believe in "man-mothers"? The Adem. In the play For All His Waiting, Lady Perial is known to sleep around. This could make sense if Perial was of the Adem.

Arliden said that "Kvothe" means "to know." Vashet interprets her name as "that which shapes."

Lastly, other updates to the indexing post: Auri & Bredon; Lute Case & Thrice-Locked Chest

Edit: #4 now links to an earlier mention of Jax/Jakis

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