TheTizer Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 But a major flaw in Jon becoming a rider of a dragon is that he is not 'The Blood of The Dragon' in the same way as Deny. When the wight attacks him and he is set on fire Jon burns one of his hands if I remember correctly, and it was my impression that only Targs with 'Blood of The Dragon' would be able to ride the Dragons.Just a thought, although I always guessed he would be one of the riders, this is just speculation why he may not be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 But a major flaw in Jon becoming a rider of a dragon is that he is not 'The Blood of The Dragon' in the same way as Deny. When the wight attacks him and he is set on fire Jon burns one of his hands if I remember correctly, and it was my impression that only Targs with 'Blood of The Dragon' would be able to ride the Dragons.Just a thought, although I always guessed he would be one of the riders, this is just speculation why he may not beDany isn't "The Blood of The Dragon" as you propose. That pyre incident was a singular incident. She burns as easily as everybody else when there is no magi chanting on a pyre containing a dead khal/husband, a dead monstrosity/babe and dragon eggs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumant30 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 The only problem I have with that is how would they know that Torrhen wasn't a warg? Is there some kind of warg detector like the a Dragon ball detector from DBZ? I agree that the Targ might have feared the North, but I don't think they invaded specifically because they knew Torrhen couldn't warg, which he could have for all we know.Nice point and a dragon is totally different thing as someone has pointed out earlier they are fire in flesh, and as it has been shown all the magic appeared when the dragons were reborn it is definitely not possible to warg them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Nice point and a dragon is totally different thing as someone has pointed out earlier they are fire in flesh, and as it has been shown all the magic appeared when the dragons were reborn it is definitely not possible to warg them.Maybe you shouldn't be as free with "definitely" when there is pretty much nothing to back it up except your gut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all_Freys_must_die Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Maybe you shouldn't be as free with "definitely" when there is pretty much nothing to back it up except your gut.haha agreed. I think that fire made flesh is a Targaryan 'line' they used to make them seem so much more than they were/are. Sure they have a strong link to magic but in the end i still think they are animals. Just the highest form of animal getting around....still a rung or two below humans and humans get warged all the time...ish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumant30 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 ....still a rung or two below humans and humans get warged all the time...ishWhen did humans get warged Varmyr tried it but he lost control of thistle in the end, it depends on how strong a human is mentally and also on the power of the warg.A dragon will definitely be a on a different level altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 When did humans get warged Varmyr tried it but he lost control of thistle in the end, it depends on how strong a human is mentally and also on the power of the warg.A dragon will definitely be a on a different level altogether.Hodor? And Varamyr wasn't far from winning, while admiring Jon Snows superior warging skills.Your estimation of a dragon being on a different level is just an estimation based on your gut feeling, no textual evidence either way. Please don't confuse people with "definitely" if there is no evidence at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumant30 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Hodor? And Varamyr wasn't far from winning, while admiring Jon Snows superior warging skills.Hodor is a lackwit, and Varmyr did not win in the end so it tells us something that a person has to be mentally not that strong then only it is possible to warg him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkfever Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 and not all targs have to have the silver hair. Yes it is a strong trait in them and most do, but baelor breakspear had brown hair and he was a targ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrannogDweller Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 and not all targs have to have the silver hair. Yes it is a strong trait in them and most do, but baelor breakspear had brown hair and he was a targ Yes, and not all Baratheons have dark hair (I think), but when a Baratheon and a Lannister produce offspring, it is always black haired. Baelor Breakspear's mother was a Martell, not a Stark. The Targaryens were always looking to keep their bloodlines pure, so if they couldn't marry into the family itself, they sought probable matches in other families with Valyrian blood (hence several of them married Velaryons). Now, except the two wives of Viserys I (an Arryn and a Hightower) and the first union with the Martells (the conquest through marriage that produced, among others, Baelor Breakspear), they seem to have followed that rule. The Starks have 0% valyrian blood (I'm almost sure), so the only reason for a Targ to marry one would be political - like the marriage that conquered Dorne. So, if Torrhen Stark was that powerful and such a threat to Aegon's conquest, why kneel? Why not ally openly with a wedding? If the wiki is to be believed, the King Who Knelt had 30 000 warriors vs Aegon's 45 000 (plus 3 dragons, who had recently incinerated 4000 men of the combined and superior in numbers Lannister-Gardener host). So I think the Kneeling was just that - a kneeling. No marriage union, no wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all_Freys_must_die Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 When did humans get warged Varmyr tried it but he lost control of thistle in the end, it depends on how strong a human is mentally and also on the power of the warg.A dragon will definitely be a on a different level altogether.yes a different level to a human, but still a rung or two below. They don't seem like they are as intelligent as humans. All they really do is kill, eat, sleep and breed. I know sounds like fun and maybe they are the smart ones haha. But they did as they were told for the old Targaryans and i expect they would once warged as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Yes, I think there's something to this. Remember Bran's vision of the heart tree in Winterfell back through the ages - the tall, bearded man and Targaryen-seeming woman sacrificing someone there and the young man also seeming to have Targaryen features fashioning weirwood arrows beneath the heart tree. I think there are ties between the Targaryens and the North in the somewhat distant past but I just don't know what they are yet. I also think we'll get some more backstory/info in the upcoming Dunk & Egg stories and I can't wait! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armidil0 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Yes, I think there's something to this. Remember Bran's vision of the heart tree in Winterfell back through the ages - the tall, bearded man and Targaryen-seeming woman sacrificing someone there and the young man also seeming to have Targaryen features fashioning weirwood arrows beneath the heart tree. I think there are ties between the Targaryens and the North in the somewhat distant past but I just don't know what they are yet. I also think we'll get some more backstory/info in the upcoming Dunk & Egg stories and I can't wait! ;)I think the lady had white hair because she was old, not a Targaryen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTizer Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Dany isn't "The Blood of The Dragon" as you propose. That pyre incident was a singular incident. She burns as easily as everybody else when there is no magi chanting on a pyre containing a dead khal/husband, a dead monstrosity/babe and dragon eggs.But did she not have a fire ball from Drogon burn all around her and she didn't get hurt? Also, at least in the series, she has a very high tolerance to heat (getting in the steaming hot bath) and when Viserys has molten gold poured over his head and dies is she is comforted by the fact that he did not survive this because he was not 'Blood of the Dragon.' I'm sure there are more instances of this this is just off the top of my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I think the lady had white hair because she was old, not a Targaryen.Hmm, I had the impression she was young with white hair. Oh well, there's still the Targaryen-seeming young man making the weirwood arrows :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Hello, ASOIAF world, fist time poster here! I’ve been reading for a while and finally decided to join the myriad interesting conversations going on here. So, here it goes: Rocket, I think the “marriage” the Greatjon mentioned in his speech was an alliance, rather than an actual marriage pact. There is a lot made of characters’ hair. GRRM basically uses it as a paternity test - the whole reason behind the suspicions of both Jon Arryn and Eddard Stark about Robert’s children was the color of their hair. With that in mind, the basic description of a Targaryen always includes fair hair – in fact I think they all have silver hair. We haven’t heard of a single Targ with dark hair and I think that this would’ve been mentioned somewhere as something out of the ordinary. Neither have we heard (officially) of an instance of a Stark-Targaryen marriage (and offspring). Now, I think that we’ve all heard the RLJ theory. So, if we use the hair color as genetic marker of a certain house (or the mixing of two houses), then only one of the two things can be true: either there has never been a marriage between a Stark and a Targaryen, or the RLJ theory is false. Of course, there is the third possibility – that the offspring of such marriages don’t always share that marker. Still, I think it’s probably one of the two. On the matter of Aegon fearing the North. He was a wise conqueror, not a mindless destroyer. He showed that by letting the Lannisters rule the West even after they took up arms against him. As it was, after the Field of Fire, Torrhen had more to fear of Aegon than the other way around. If we can say one thing about the Stark lords it is that the only thing they put before their honor is the well-being of their people. So, maybe Torrhen realized that keeping a Crown was worth less than the thousands of Northmen that would die for it. In fact,I think there are only two reasons that Aegon might fear The North – the warging and the Neck. However, with dragons being powerful magical beings, we have to assume that it would take a very powerful warg to control them – and we have no evidence to support the theory that Torrhen was one, let alone assess his strength. Plus, Aegon had to know beforehand that the Starks are wargs in order to feel threatened by it – and I’ve gotten the sense that this ability isn’t really trumpeted around. The second reason – The North and Dorne are both protected by their geography. And even though the failed conquest of Dorne was after the Kneeling, I think that even at that point Aegon would be able to assess the situation and realize a peaceful solution would be better for him too. After all, he wanted to rule the Kingdoms – not leave them in ashes.Aegor Rivers (Targ Bastard) dark haired because he was not a product of Targ/Targ, as was Rhaenys, she had dark hair like her mother Elia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrannogDweller Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Aegor Rivers (Targ Bastard) dark haired because he was not a product of Targ/Targ, as was Rhaenys, she had dark hair like her mother Elia.And Baelor Breakspear had dark hair, while all his siblings had the signature Targaryen silver. I already answered that in my last comment here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumant30 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Yes, and not all Baratheons have dark hair (I think), but when a Baratheon and a Lannister produce offspring, it is always black haired. Baelor Breakspear's mother was a Martell, not a Stark.All baratheons have dark hair it was as mentioned in the book Ned was reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrannogDweller Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 All baratheons have dark hair it was as mentioned in the book Ned was reading. Which, if true, is kinda weird, considering that the founder of the house was a Targaryen bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordling Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 The name of the series clearly points out that the Targaryens and Starks have a connection. Or maybe it is just L+R, and it's not about song but son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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