hint for stark vengance at end of adwd?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I'd like to see Robb's death avenged, too, but I don't think it will be through an heir. Jeyne was sent back home, with a Lannister escort and was forbidden to marry for two years. So, even if she does give birth, the child will just be another hostage in the Lannisters' hands.

That being said, one of the three men directly responsible for the Red Wedding is already dead - Lord Tywin. He didn't really receive the wrath of the North, but he did get a bolt in the belly from his son. So that leaves us with Walder Frey and Roose Bolton.

I don't really think we're in any danger of seeing the Starks becoming puppets to anyone - especially Rickon. Even though he's really young and at that age it's difficult to tell, I think he is set up to be some sort of reincarnation of his uncle Brandon - and that guy might've been a little crazy, but he didn't let himself be manipulated.

Jeyne? Or "Jeyne"? Remember, Jaime comments on her narrow hips, opposed to Cats comments a thousand pages prior. And there is a little sister not mentioned in Jaime's POV.

And Lady Spicer is a liar one way or the other, not exactly a reliable source.

[lovethyjaime]

My theory is that Rob and Ned aren't dead... all the starks are alive and no vengeance is needed... I'm not crazy :cool4:

Ned was replaced by a facless man... Rob's corpse was just a random screw up with Grey Wind's head attatched. And an injured Rob escaped with the Black Fish to live... Let me continue me dreams TT___TT

Hoookay. First of all, faceless men can only take the face of men that they have killed or dead men. I can't remember which, but either way the face they take is of a dead person, which would mean poor old dead ned would indeed be dead. Second of all, catelyn watched Robb die. There is no possible way that she mistook some random screw up with her son. Third of all, black fish fled riverrun long after the RW and also was not in attendance. somehow a gravely injured robb would have had to travel all the way from the twins to riverrrun before it was surrounded by freys. for some reason i find that hard to believe.

sorry, your dreams take away from the battered legacy of the starks, which i believe is a extremely important part in the upcoming books. This long winter is going to be a time for wolves.

[Ojji]

As a Christian I'm going to have to ask you to not compare ASoIaF with THE BIBLE. Both are beautiful works, but let's not mix a fantasy story with THE BIBLE, please.

And another thing, would you bang your sister-in-law or brother-in-law?

ROFL, this would be too juicy argument.

[TheCrannogDweller]

Jeyne? Or "Jeyne"? Remember, Jaime comments on her narrow hips, opposed to Cats comments a thousand pages prior. And there is a little sister not mentioned in Jaime's POV.

And Lady Spicer is a liar one way or the other, not exactly a reliable source.

Lady Spicer was a daughter of a wealthy trader, married to lord Westerling so she can improve his declining wealth. She was conspiring with Lord Tywin - a man who was famous for paying his debts, and got out of those negotiations what she wanted - or at least she thought so up until the moment she talked to Jaime. With all that said, I think it's more likely that she lied to the Starks (via her daughter), because they could give her what she already had - honour and such; and she was truthful to the Lannisters - because they could give her what she craved - improved standing in society.

Now, there is the vice versa option as well - that out of love and devotion (we don't really know what she is like), she decided to fullheartedly support the honourable Starks, particularly her daughter's beloved Robb, thus risking the wrath of no other than the mighty Lord Tywin Lannister - the man who eradicated two Houses for slighting him. And to take it just to a whole new level, she started falsely negotiating with him. And if all that was true, why didn't she warn Robb that something was about to happen to him? Granted, we don't know how much she knew, but she could've warned him at least of the fact, that the Lannisters didn't want him to have an heir. From there it's just a short logical jump to the conclusion that they think he would need an heir soon.

And Jeyne's little sister is just that - little. According to the wiki, she's twelve.

[Volantis]

The remaining Starks better cause some shit. You got Bran that can use animals and weirwoods, who knows what Rickon will be like when he gets back in the fold, Arya is an assassin in training, Sansa is learning her own type of power.... something's got to give.

What power is that? Baby sitting a sickly 6 year old?

[sertravisredbeard]

What power is that? Baby sitting a sickly 6 year old?

I'm not the biggest Sansa fan but she's obtaining the arguably most important weapon in the realm; the skills to play the game of thrones. There are plenty of assassins, and plenty of crazy wildling kids, but I can think we can all agree there's only one Littlefinger. Maybe that's not as impressive as learning to be a greenseer, but from what we've seen in the books so far, having Littlefinger's skill-set is way more useful than knowing anything about swords. The only mistake he's made so far is letting Sansa in on some of his games. The second she figures out the other things he's put in motion over the years he's cooked. Sansa's gunna pull off some crazy shit in a few years.

[Bluesnow]

^ I don't know if thats really about Sansa's new skills so much as actually maturing into an adult. She started off as a terribly naive girl, and really all she's learned is not to be so trusting and to use her own brain for once. I do think she will potentially use the information she's learning about Little Finger to plot his downfall... but thats not so much a reflection of her skills as a reflection of little finger letting down his defenses.

With that said... I do think Little Finger will fall in revenge for what happened to Ned. I personally think 90% of what happened to him happened as a result of Little Finger's purposeful meddling. I'm uncertain though if it will be completely through Sansa or not.

[Spearwifey]

As far as I know A Dream of Spring was initially supposed to be called A Time for Wolves but then changed later. So I think that makes it pretty obvious that our beloved Starks will get their revenge if not in the next book then at least in the last one.

[sumant30]

The only mistake he's made so far is letting Sansa in on some of his games.

You never know LF it may be also his ploy to see how exactly sansa reacts.

[Lady of Dragonstone]

I agree with some that Robb will not have an heir. If the Starks get revenge (and I think and hope they do!) it will be for the family as a whole, not just on behalf of Robb. Yes, Robb's death was tragic and untimely but Robb isn't the only Stark who met an unfair end in the story (let's face it: most of the Starks we've seen have). I think it's almost obvious that the Starks will, if not prevail, then at least get vengeance and justice served for them. In GoT, the Starks' viewpoints were basically the meat of the book. GRRM rarely introduces characters who have no meaning. Arya, Sansa, Rickon, and Bran all have important roles to play in the next two books. I think we will see all the Stark children reunited once again.... the ones who live, anyway. This prophecy that Bran heard from the crow, the ending of which I have quoted below, emphasizes the importance of the Starks. We all know prophecies are what the intended make of them, but I think that this prophecy is significant and underrated.

Now you know, the crow whispered as it sat on his shoulder, now you know why you must live.

"Why?" Bran said, not understanding, falling, falling.

Because winter is coming.

[HouseLark]

Jojen Reed: "The wolves will come again". 'Nuff said

[Big Daddy Dave]

I think the differences in appearance for Jeyne WERE deliberate by the author, maybe as a backdoor that he could use at a later time if he pleased. I'm not really convinced any child Martin may or may not decide to produce for Jeyne will have any real impact on the story. It would be one thing if the ASOIAF series made time jumps to age the characters, but it doesn't. The readers won't ever see any fruit of a reignited Stark house with a son of Robb leading the way.

Hell, even making Rickon the Lord of Winterfell is a huge stretch, and that's the option that makes the most sense. I'm thinking/hoping that when the dust settles Jon will sit the iron throne, Rickon will be Lord of Winterfell, and Bran will be completely out on his own new life away from humans.

The only way I can see this working is that if the epilogue of A Dream Of Spring jumps ahead 15 or more years and gives us a glimpse of the future of Winterfell and the Starks. Because there won't be a huge time jump any time before THAT.

[gwenyth]

As a Christian I'm going to have to ask you to not compare ASoIaF with THE BIBLE. Both are beautiful works, but let's not mix a fantasy story with THE BIBLE, please.

And another thing, would you bang your sister-in-law or brother-in-law?

er ... some consider most of the BIBLE to be a fantasy story. Not everyone is a christian. Not everyone considers the BIBLE sacred. or the Koran. Or the sacred texts of the East. or the Mabinogion. Why should your particular preferences rule anyone else's comparisons? Now, if you said tht yes, indeed, the theory referenced sure sounds crackpot, that would be another matter. I think it's pretty crackpot, myself, but hey, that's what's fun about forums. "For what do we live but to laugh at our fellow-posters crack-potterism and be ourselves their sport in our turn?" (Mea Culpa, Jane Austin)

And what does the poster's own prediliction for his/her own bro/sister - or lack of same - have to do with anything? Perhaps s/he believes him/herself to be a reincarnation of ancient egyptian royalty.

As to the question of the thread, I surely do hope the Starks get some revenge, in some fashion, sometime.

[Dargor]

I think the Starks will get their revenge somehow, but obviously it won't be as satisfactory as we would like. Rickon will be the key to recover the North, and a Stannis-Stark alliance will harm the Lannisters' interests, especially with Sansa near to gain control over the only untouched military force left in the Seven Kingdoms.

And hopefully Arya will have something to say about this in the last book.

[shk12344]

Starks revenge will be Jon Snow. Jon already beheaded Janos Slynt who betrayed Ned. It's just matter time before the Jon destroys remaining betrayers.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

Winter will be seriously pissed off Jon Snow. An suprisingly Cersei will be only one that has seen threat he posses from the beginning.

What do you mean by this?

And I don't subscribe to this whole "If the TV show did it it MUST mean something significant in regards to future books/storylines" theory. I think its complete bs given how horrible the tv steries became over the course of season 2.

Jeyne Stark may be an important character in the future (by means of Robb's heir) or she may be absolutely nothing. But I am not looking to the tv series retarded interpretation of her character for the answer to that question.

[Quiet Isle]

Don't know about he starks, but Fatman Manderly is fixing to unload a whole can of whoop ass.

And I cannot wait. There is a theory that Manderly and Stannis have hooked up and taken out the freys, have put the frey clothes on, and manderly is going to do a Trojan Horse on Ramsay and Roose's castle. Manderly will bring Stannis' sword to show he's dead, but he won't be. The castle doors will be open, and BOOM shakalaka. I still say Arya is going to have Nymeria and her pack of wolves hunt Ramsay down as he escapes, and Arya as FM will flay him, slowly. Karmic retribution for women.

[Alia of the knife]

It is never confirmed that Jon was infact named heir, i beleive it is so GRRM can surprise us with who it is, and the black fish and Jeyne westerling would be plenty of proof.

And i am not saying the child will ever lead during the books, but i can see the child being a ralying call for the north.

Maybe Jon would be set up as Regent unitl the childs Majority

Possibly......it is well documented that birds are very vindictive creatures......they delight in vengeance and comeuppance

And I can only hope that the Baltimore Ravens live up to that standard this Season.

[Alia of the knife]

Well, I think if Winter has arrived, then the Starks as well as the rest of the North are well positioned to better survive and fight in those conditions.

[Lord Davos Seaworth]

Seeing as one of the sequels was supposed to be called A Time for Wolves, I do believe George has some sort of vengeance/rise for the Starks planned. Although he's said it himself that he doesn't like the idea of reparation merely because it happens in every Hollywood movie, but rarely in real life, I'm sure we are going to get some bit of satisfaction!