Littlefinger triggered Jeoffrey into beheading Ned Stark?

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

I have no real proof for this conclusion from the text but IMO it makes sense in many ways.

What do you think?

I think LF has done enough without pushing Joffrey to behead Ned. I'm sure Joffrey was still pissed about his assissin failing to kill Bran. I'm sure he was still pissed that Arya threw his sword in the river and Nymeria mauled his hand. I'm sure he's pissed that Robb Stark is beating Lannister's in every battle.

1.Littlefinger fought against Brandon Stark for Cat's hand. Lost then told Brandon that Rhagaer had abducted his sister and make Brandon furious. Hence he's responsible for Richard and Brandon's death, and had a huge hand in starting Robert's Rebellion.

2. Littlefinger gets Lysa to poison her husband. Then gets Catelyn to believe his lies about a dagger, he gets Ned to seek drastic action against the Mountain. Then the next thing you know he has a war between the Stark's and Lannisters.

3. He supports Joffrey while plotting to kill him to get his "useless mother" into power to just totally throw the realm into chaos. He gets a Lannister/Tyrell alliance that defeats Stannis.

4. He uses the an elaborate coin making system as master of coin that gives Tyrion a headache when he tries to figure it out.

5. A ship, bedding wedding then a simple push and he's lord protector of the Vale.

I'm sure next we're going to find out that he's somehow responsible for the war of three queens.

[Waylin Stark]

Ok guys, so this is my first post etc and this might have even been sugested before but I couldn't find a topic about it so here it goes.

My question is if it's possible that Littlefinger somehow triggered Jeoffrey into beheading Ned (like he inspired him to have the jousting dwarfs at the purple wedding.)

I have no real proof for this conclusion from the text but IMO it makes sense in many ways.

1. We know that LF wanted to start a conflict between the Starks and the Lannisters, if Ned had lived they might have gotten peace.

2. Since being friendzone by Catelyn Tully and whatnot he might have wanted to see Eddard dead from the very beginning. It would also be a way to not let Catelyn understand the whole betrayal scenario because if Ned have lived he would surely have told Cat what a scumbag her childhood friend Petyr was.

3. He seems to be one of the few persons that Jeoffrey actually (for some reason) listened too and Jeoffrey had no real reason to go aganst his mothers plans except from pure malice.

This struck me the first time I read GoT and I still see it as a viable scenario.

What do you think?

I doubt it. While LF would benefit from a dead Eddard, he didn't have anything to do with it. Joffrey was a crazy douchedick, who realized he could do whatever he wanted, so he had Eddard's head lopped off.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

I can see this being true. It was likely some warped plot to make her 'availible' for him.

[Brienne Of Bombay]

It is possible IMO. And even the smallest bit of encouragement would've been enough for Joffrey.

[TalalOfDorne]

He wanted a war to start and thats how it started. Its likely that he did do it.

[Anwar]

There was already war with the Baratheons and the Reach, all killing Ned would've done was also bring in War with the North and Riverlands and make it harder for him to benefit from anything. Why bother starting a War he knew his Horse (the Lannisters) would lose?

I mean, if it wasn't for random shadow-magic getting rid of Renly and making the Reach available LF would've just been punished for aiding the Lannisters and turning over Ned.

[Bushido]

I think it is very likely - in fact,I am sure LF nugded Joff into killing Ned - and he probably had to do it in an obvious manner : just like when he arranged dwarves for Joff's wedding. The kid wasn't the sharpest sword.

LF thrives on chaos,instability.

[Lord Varys' Pecker]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that LF was helping Ned at first until the whole Stannis issue came up, but I also don't believe he wanted Ned's death as odd as it may seem. He probably, like Cersei thought he more useful subdued and controlled. The beheading was all Joffrey's idea.

[Lord_Tyrell]

There was already war with the Baratheons and the Reach, all killing Ned would've done was also bring in War with the North and Riverlands and make it harder for him to benefit from anything. Why bother starting a War he knew his Horse (the Lannisters) would lose?

I mean, if it wasn't for random shadow-magic getting rid of Renly and making the Reach available LF would've just been punished for aiding the Lannisters and turning over Ned.

Littlefinger wants even more chaos that's why. He needs to broker more agreements that he can take care of, which require more chaos at his disposal. Littlefinger without question was the one who benefited most from Ned's death, while basically every other house and person greatly suffered from Ned's death.

[Lord_Tyrell]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that LF was helping Ned at first until the whole Stannis issue came up, but I also don't believe he wanted Ned's death as odd as it may seem. He probably, like Cersei thought he more useful subdued and controlled. The beheading was all Joffrey's idea.

No. Littlefinger needs to play up his position to the point of marrying Lysa Arryn. I think he was counting on betraying Ned to be enough, but the honor of Harrenhal goes to his own goon Janos Slynt. So Littlefinger now must stir up ever more trouble so he can rise up to the point of marrying Lysa. Banishing Janos Slynt did Littlefinger a favor, and then he makes his intentions clear with Harrenhal. If Stannis and Renly march his way, then he has no means of ascending. He needs the lands in as much chaos as possible so he can work some of his magic.

[Anwar]

Littlefinger wants even more chaos that's why. He needs to broker more agreements that he can take care of, which require more chaos at his disposal. Littlefinger without question was the one who benefited most from Ned's death, while basically every other house and person greatly suffered from Ned's death.

But the Chaos caused by Ned's death would've sealed LF's own fate if Melisandre's shadow-magic hadn't put an end to Renly. Renly and the Tyrells would've just had him killed for betraying Ned and helping the Lannisters.

[Cheese&Onion]

It's also mentioned that Varys has a suprised look on his face along with Cersei and the High Septon when the order of the execution came. It would seem that they thought they had control of Joffrey or had at least had briefed him on what should have happen. I'm guessing that Varys underestimated or did not know LF's plans (as there must of been some outside influence for Varys to be caught unawares and to loose control). He hints at this when discussing the riddle and LF with Tyrion.

[Lord Damian]

Littlefinger really could not let Ned live as he knew of the betrayal with the Gold Cloaks etc.. Also, the thing about the dagger etc.. Littlefinger needed Ned dead and he certainly WANTED him dead because of him being a Stark and he got CAT.

[Lord_Tyrell]

But the Chaos caused by Ned's death would've sealed LF's own fate if Melisandre's shadow-magic hadn't put an end to Renly. Renly and the Tyrells would've just had him killed for betraying Ned and helping the Lannisters.

I don't think that the betrayal of Littlefinger was known to people outside of the Lannisters. Cat and Sansa didn't know about it (although I'm sure Sansa will figure it out).

[Anwar]

I'm surprised about that though. I mean, in the TV show Cat clearly knew LF was behind Ned's death and was ready to stab him for it when they met at Renly's camp.

[House Lothston]

I always thought so as well. Littlefinger loves the chaos that would come with Ned's beheading, not to mention that this was the man, who had married his beloved Cat.

It was made pretty clear with the jousting dwarfes that LF had some influence on Joffrey, and the fact that Slynt, who was on his payroll, acted really fast, while most others were startled, convinced me of that theory.

Even in the TV-show you can see Pycelle, Cersei and Varys shocked, while LF stands there completely calm.

And the last hint came from Varys himself: "Who truly killed Eddard Stark, do you think? Joffrey, who gave the command? Ser Ilyn Payne, who swung the sword? Or … another?"

Also there is this line shortly afterwards: "Power resides where men believe it resides; it's a trick, a shadow on the wall, and a very small man can cast a very large shadow."

At first I thought this was simple a praise for Tyrion, though it came so shortly after that last phrase that it could very well mean Petyr as well. After all he is "Little"finger... from a tiny house with no lands and no true power... a very small man indeed.

And at the end of the 5th book... can the shadow he had cast over the realm by then be even longer? Lord of Harrenhall... he has the Riverlands and the Vale already... Sansa might be the key to the north, once the Boltons are out of the way... and of course he has contact with the Tyrells as well.

So, Ned's death was the best thing that could have happened for Petyr and I'm pretty sure, he whispered quite a few things into Joff's ear.

[Lord Freypie]

I don't think Joffrey needed Littlefinger to say anything to decide to behead Ned Stark.

If anyone Sansa triggered Joffrey beheading her father.

IMO he takes his decision when she asks for mercy, decision whose main goal is to torture her.

.

[MasterJack]

LF told NED;

"Stannis is no friend of yours, nor of mine. Even his brothers can scarcely stomach him. The man is iron, hard and unyielding. He'll give us a new Hand and a new concil, for a certainty. No doubt he'll thank you for handing him the crown, but he won't love you for it. And his ascent will mean war. Stannis cannot rest easy on the throne until Cersei and her bastards are dead. Do you think Lord Tywin will sit idly while his daughter's head is measured for a spike? Casterly Rock will rise, and not alone. Robert found it in him to pardon men who served King Aerys, so long as they did him fealty. Stannis is less forgiving. He will not have forgotten the siege of StormEnd, and the lords Tyrell and Redwyne dare not. Eery man who fought beneath the dragon banner or rose with Balon Greyjoy will have good cause to fear. Seat Stannis on the Iron Throne and I promise you, the realm will bleed."

I think he wanted Ned out the game but not war. And killing him at the sept MEANS war. I dont think he told Joffrey to kill Ned, Joffrey was crazy enough to think about it himself. If LF wanted war, why did he lied about the Dagger? He knew it was in Robert possession. "Yes I know this Dagger, i gave it to ROBERT" Then Ned ask Robert about it and Ned will suspect the Prince/Queen/King of the deed. No, he said Tyrion, the blacksheep, no one loves him. Ned will still be MAD but not against the crown. Catelyn arresting Tyrion was unpredictabe. Most logic assumption is Ned arrests Tyrion--> guilty ----> Dies ---> Tywin is mad but not enough to declare war to the REALM, only toward NED so he dispose of Ned discretly.

Jon Arryn was about to bleed the Kingdom with was he discovered. Saying the truth was the JUST thing to do but the result is the same. Guess what, LF kills him.

Joffrey is a monster, no one can control him. Guess what, LF helps to kill him.

Stannis is about to get the IT, he might then declare war against the Iron Born, the Tyrell, and Redwyne, for their past faults. Guess what again!!!!!!!! LF get an alliance with the Tyrell and Save King Landing.

A lot of people says LF loves the chaos but in multiple occasions he tried to prevent war. For these reason I am not so sure about him whispering in Joffrey's ears about Beheading Ned. Ned at the Walls is enough to make Catelyn a widow.

So I am not saying LF is a good person, but all his bad actions was only toward HOUSE STARK to get Ned out and marry Catelyn. Never to kill thousands with wars. His actions toward the main hero (Ned) might push ppl to accuse him of everything.

If you read all that, thank you, and sorry my english is bad.

[House Lothston]

While you do have some good points there, I just don't think that Littlefinger was much portrayed as the "Saviour of the realm" personality-wise in the books. ;)

And in the end, all of the things he did helped him to get where he is at the moment.

Although one thing he never wanted, was Stannis on the throne. No more brothels... and scheming around Stannis might not be such a good idea either. So I do assume that his first proposal to Ned was honest! But with Ned being the stubborn, honorable man he is, LF was forced to do something.

I believe that the main thing he wanted, was the Starks and the Lannisters at each others throat. That was the reason for Arryns poisoning, for blaming Tyrion for the assassin and as the final blow, for Ned's beheading.

Stannis was a nuisance he had to deal with, Renly would have been more easily manipulated. Renly gave Ned the same advice like Baelish after all, if I remember right! To be honest, I think if Renly had not been killed, Baelish might have switched sides there already when he went to Renlys camp to negotiate, after all he seemed to be on rather good terms with the Tyrells, what we saw after the PW.

I think in the end we'll see that Petyr was responsible for a lot of the things that happened. That said, I also have to say that I love Littlefinger as what he is: A very complex and interesting character... A smart, scheming, treacherous bastard maybe but I would like him much better that way than if he was really doing all this just for the realm ;)

[Toshio.Keepiru]

Aside from Varys implying it, we have the jousting dwarves at the Purple Wedding. LF explicitly tells Sansa how he manipulated Joffrey into going after Tyrion. I think we're supposed to put 2 and 2 together and figure out Ned's beheading.

What happens if/when Sansa figures out who instigated Ned's beheading then? Sounds like Littlefinger might be keeping an exceptionally close eye on Sansa now too.