Who fathered Ashara Dayne's child ?

[The Butler of Tarth]

I will maintain the position that it was Ned until presented with proof for the opposite.

I will also continue to believe that the resulting child was Aegriff based on no evidence whatsoever.

[Barty]

I'm going for Ned - Ned clearly liked Ashara and while Brandon is certainly the type who deflowers maidens, I don't think he would do it to a woman his brother liked.

Though if Ashara had no interest in Ned but liked Brandon instead then it's far more likely that Brandon was the one.

[Deaner]

Ned, or maybe Brandon. And the Child is Fake Aegon :)

[Light a wight tonight]

Note that Barristan believes that it's possible Ashara died out of "grief" for the man who had "dishonored" her. This doesn't mean he thinks she killed herself for grief at having been dishonored -- but at grief for the man, because he's lost to her or he's dead. I.E., Barristan believes she may have loved whoever it was.

Can anyone imagine a scenario where Ashara loved Aerys? Especially those who believe he raped her? And taking into account his insanity, his cruelty, his madness that left him so paranoid he wouldn't let anyone cut his hair or trim his nails... ?

I believe Brandon Stark and Ashara Dayne had a fling at Harrenhal, a fling that everyone sort of pinned on Ned for various reasons.

Much as I hesitate (all of 5 seconds) to dispute a point with Ran, this holds up only if Ashara did in fact die. How reliable a witness is Barristan on this subject? Did he see the body? (Nope, never recovered.) Does he have certain knowledge of her grief or love for the father of her child? Again, not very likely.

[Lord Cahill]

If it was a Stark, I would like to say Ned, but it was more likely it was Brandon if we take his reputation into the situation.

[Arkantos]

I hope it's not Brandon, that'd make him a dick to be honest, he knew Ned liked her.

[Keirut]

My money are on Brandon!

[Lux in Tenebris]

Much as I hesitate (all of 5 seconds) to dispute a point with Ran, this holds up only if Ashara did in fact die. How reliable a witness is Barristan on this subject? Did he see the body? (Nope, never recovered.) Does he have certain knowledge of her grief or love for the father of her child? Again, not very likely.

To tack on to this, Barristan himself admitted he never had much interaction with Ashara except from afar, yet had strong feelings for her, and was unlikely to see her in anything but a positive light.

[Lyanna's rose]

The way I read that passage, I thought Ser Barristan was saying that his failure was not winning and telling Ashara his feelings for her by naming her queen of love and beauty. If he had won Rgaegar couldn't have named Lyanna queen and set this whole ice and fire tragedy into motion. If Barristan had named Ashara queen, maybe she wouldn't have fallen in live with either Stark.

I think the Brandon theories are interesting, but I still think it was Ned. Remember Ned wasn't engaged to Cat at the time (Brandon was). If Ned had gotten Ashara pregnant, he would have married her (like Rob did after he slept with Jeyne of Westerling) because it was the honorable thing to do. But then the whole Lyanna kidnapping happened, Brandon went to KL, and the rest is history. The Ashara/Ned love story was doomed to tragedy, which is another reason I think Barristan feels like a failure. If she and Ned had lived happily ever after, I think he would have been able to live with that because he knew he couldn't be with her and she would have been happy. The fact that he thinks he died is why he thinks he failed.

Btw, I also think Ashara might be septa Lemore! Must re-read to see if Tyrion mentions anything about the Septa's eyes, although I doubt that was the body part he paid much attention to!

[Ice Turtle]

How much time passed between Harrenhall and Lyanna's abduction? If it's more than three months than it's likely that Ned would have married her if she had been pregnant. That is if she hadn't decided that she doesn't want to marry him just because was is pregnant.

[OberynBlackfyre]

If fake Aegon is actually Neds bastard, and his "bastard" Jon Snow is actually the real dragon, that will be hilarious (HAR HAR!)

[OberynBlackfyre]

For real though, I do see Lemore as Ashara though, and have since they first mentioned this rag tag boat of people. The whole fact of Ashara's body "not being recovered" is just too GRRM. You pretty much have to see someone die, or have to see a body. Also, he goes through great lengths to give us a very vague description of Lemore. He says that she is handsome, and not exactly young. Has stretch marks from child birth, and that's about it. No eye color, no hair color really. I think this is on purpose only because we would be able to guess if it was Ashara by her eye color and hair color alone. However, I do NOT think Aegon is really HER son as she does not really have any special connection with him other than the teachings of the faith. Griff, who is not even his real father is much more protective than her.

[Ran]

I don't think it matters whether Ashara is alive or not. Barristan's point of view is the only one we have to go on to provide us the idea that she may have loved the person who "dishonored" her (from his perspective).

Why does Barristan believe she might have loved this "Stark" so much? Well, I doubt he never interacted with her. She was a lady at court, and he would have seen her often, participated in the social life at court as his duties permitted, and so on. Truth be told, the rumors of her relationship with a Stark must have existed in King's Landing, and surely must have been sourced from Ashara's circle of acquaintances. That's certainly much nearer the core of it than washing women in Winterfell and Cersei Lannister (who was at Casterly Rock by the time of Harrenhal).

And no, I don't believe Ashara is Lemore. She's at least 5 years too old (Tyrion puts her at past 40), the failure to note her eyes as violet is quite strange when everyone else with violet eyes is noted, Griff thinks of her as "Lady Lemore" in his thoughts, and Varys clearly supports the idea that her purpose is to educate Young Griff in the Faith -- not exactly the thing you'd imagine a typical noble lady in Westeros would be specifically tasked with. I suppose one can imagine that she went into a motherhouse and became a septa

Anyways, Ashara Dayne is Quaithe of Asshai.

It is known.

[Lord Cahill]

Never heard that theory before, it sounds interesting. Is there any proof?

The one about Quaithe= Ashara.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

I did. :leaving:

[Beets]

I did. :leaving:

GASP! You harlot.

Edit: Harlot is applicable to dudes, right?

[Light a wight tonight]

Lemore goes skinny-dippin' with the boys. Doesn't mind if Tyrion gets a peek or two. Pretty unorthodox behavior for a nun septa, don't you think? And some women age better than others. (Tyrion thinks: "she has eyes?")

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

GASP! You harlot.

Edit: Harlot is applicable to dudes, right?

I would answer your question...but I have no idea what a harlot is.

[Beets]

I would answer your question...but I have no idea what a harlot is.

A concubine. A strumpet, a trollop, a floozy, a courtesan, a tramp, a Jezebel, a painted lady, a woman of ill repute, a woman of the night, a tart, a jade, a fallen woman, a lady of the evening...

...I'm sorry, I didn't mean it. It was a joke.

:stunned:

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

A concubine. A strumpet, a trollop, a floozy, a courtesan, a tramp, a Jezebel, a painted lady, a woman of ill repute, a woman of the night, a tart, a jade, a fallen woman, a lady of the evening...

...I'm sorry, I didn't mean it. It was a joke.

:stunned:

Well it wasn't funny! :bawl: