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From Pawn to Player: Rethinking Sansa XIV


brashcandy

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I agree. It really is amazing how tactile their relationship has been from the very start, when she bumped into him and he placed his hands on her shoulders. Sansa finally reaching out and touching his face felt like they had come full circle.

Stay safe! :grouphug:

Yes, it has come full circle. Also, I forgot to mention this earlier but this is also the scene which sets up the unkiss. So, we don't get the actual transformative kiss (yet) but in Sansa's mind she does. Since we've seen that the kiss can be transformative for the Beauty (Psyche) or for the Beast (in Beauty and the Beast) and since Sansa has already gotten her kiss, I wonder if we will get the actual kiss and who it will affect more. The moment that created the unkiss seems to have had a transformative effect on Sandor though he doesn't realize that there has been a kiss in Sansa's mind, whereas for Sansa the unkiss is what creates the beginning of her maturation process.

And thanks for the well wishes all! I'm still online as you can see but can't say for how much longer. We have heard from some friends in our neighborhood who have lost power and the wind is really picking up now. Also, wishing well to Butterbumps and others in the path of super storm Sandor (oops I mean Sandy :devil: he, he).

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Yeah, pretty "lame" joke - ha, ha, again! But I am already starting to get that loopy cooped up feeling. That stinks that you had to go to work today. Get home safely.

:) Thank you but I am at home! I meant Sandy is at work, not me :). I am at home, obsessing over ASOIAF. :laugh:

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First of all, stay safe all of you who are in the storm's way. :)

Secondly, excellent post butterbumps! I had a similar reaction to Littelfinger's petulant behaviour towards Tyrion. It's also telling that Varys seems to more or less let Littlefinger be, while he knows what LF really is about. For the moment, Varys is ok with it because LF's games are not contradicting his own. And LF definitely comes across as a "flawed" player. While he is good at being destructive, he builds nothing, as you point out. Chaos is also far easier to sow than anything that creates or builds up. LF isn't interested in that at all.

I also completely agree with your analysis of how he has no Master Plan , he only wants to be the last man standing while the world burns. Good point too about both Harrenhal and Sansa acting as "honeycombs" making LF overreach himself and show his hand earlier. Tyrion saw directly how much LF desired Harrenhal and it was easy for Tyrion to play him due to this desire.

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It came across my mind, I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it before but I believe that Sansa is the lone wolf if anything because of the fact that she actually is one. She is the only one without her direwolf. Nymeria is still in Westeros, Summer is with Bran, Ghost is with Jon, Shaggy is with Rickon and Grey Wind went to heaven with Robb. Sansa doesn't have her direwolf anymore. With all the circumstances plus this, she qualifies as the lone wolf.

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This scene makes you think a lot if you read the sequence of Sansa’s thoughts in each stage:

Notice how her thoughts begin and end with The Hound? And she goes directly from Lothor to Clegane and back to Lothor, which marks the moment she’s probably begun to see him in the role the other left vacant.

One more thing I find interesting, is that after she thinks of him as The Hound, his beastly persona, she immediately switches to Sandor Clegane, the name of the man. It’s not the first time she does that, and I find the circumstances surrounding this pattern of thought very significant because of the results:

First time, in ASOS:

What’s happening here? = First time she admits to missing him after he left.

Where is she? = King’s Landing, about to meet the Tyrell women.

Where it leads to? = The UnKiss, a short time later.

Second time, in ASOS:

What’s happening here? = Petyr and Lysa's wedding.

Where is she? = In the banquet, hearing Lysa's screams.

Where it leads to? = Replacing Tyrion with the Hound in her dream, that same night.

Emotional bonds like these two have are hard to break, and harder still if you ignore or understimate them. Milady thinks Mr. Petyr of House Mockingbird is as good as lost.

I love what you did here, to show the progression. The way he builds up the layers to create meaning.

Martin doesn't need to have her vocalize as she did in the first chapter of ASOS that she misses him; it comes through quite clearly in her thoughts and in the symbolic presence of the old dog.

Exactly. All symbolism is so delicately woven into their interactions.

The Spaniards have this gorgeous saying: La letra entra con sangre. Which I once translated as Important lessons cost you blood.

I love that expression, thanks!

I still love the scene in Sansa's bedroom during the Battle of the Blackwater, after she sings and then she reaches up and touches his face. I guess that's all about the gaze there. The gaze, the sympathetic touch and the singing have such a powerful effect and it was so moving to read it.

That was beautiful. And as a declaration of love to so perfectly fit the character, you can't get better than "I could keep you safe… No one would hurt you again, or I'd kill them." :)

I agree. It really is amazing how tactile their relationship has been from the very start, when she bumped into him and he placed his hands on her shoulders. Sansa finally reaching out and touching his face felt like they had come full circle.

A lot of reaching out and touching going on with these two.

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Yes, it has come full circle. Also, I forgot to mention this earlier but this is also the scene which sets up the unkiss. So, we don't get the actual transformative kiss (yet) but in Sansa's mind she does. Since we've seen that the kiss can be transformative for the Beauty (Psyche) or for the Beast (in Beauty and the Beast) and since Sansa has already gotten her kiss, I wonder if we will get the actual kiss and who it will affect more. The moment that created the unkiss seems to have had a transformative effect on Sandor though he doesn't realize that there has been a kiss in Sansa's mind, whereas for Sansa the unkiss is what creates the beginning of her maturation process.

And thanks for the well wishes all! I'm still online as you can see but can't say for how much longer. We have heard from some friends in our neighborhood who have lost power and the wind is really picking up now. Also, wishing well to Butterbumps and others in the path of super storm Sandor (oops I mean Sandy :devil: he, he).

Elba & Saryan stay save!! :grouphug:

Very intresting points about LF due to butterbumps!! and Elba,i just love that you find the UnKiss scene/moment as intresting as i do!! :D

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First of all, stay safe all of you who are in the storm's way. :)

Secondly, excellent post butterbumps! I had a similar reaction to Littelfinger's petulant behaviour towards Tyrion. It's also telling that Varys seems to more or less let Littlefinger be, while he knows what LF really is about. For the moment, Varys is ok with it because LF's games are not contradicting his own. And LF definitely comes across as a "flawed" player. While he is good at being destructive, he builds nothing, as you point out. Chaos is also far easier to sow than anything that creates or builds up. LF isn't interested in that at all.

I also completely agree with your analysis of how he has no Master Plan ™, he only wants to be the last man standing while the world burns. Good point too about both Harrenhal and Sansa acting as "honeycombs" making LF overreach himself and show his hand earlier. Tyrion saw directly how much LF desired Harrenhal and it was easy for Tyrion to play him due to this desire.

Exactly. It takes hours or weeks to create a beautiful painting, 9 months to give birth, years to build a tower or cathedral, and a thousand years to create a stable country.

Yet it takes minutes to vandalise a painting, less than a minute to kill someone, a few months of plotting and use of other people's technology to destroy a tower or cathedral, and less than a century to destroy a civilization.

Destruction is easy and requires no particular intelligence, merely a lack of empathy.

But to create something worthwhile one needs hardwork, passion and genius.

How many years did Varys expend training Aegon to be the perfect King? How many years plotting to put him there?

Yet it took LF a few lies and in a matter of months Westeros was at war.

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Exactly. It takes hours or weeks to create a beautiful painting, 9 months to give birth, years to build a tower or cathedral, and a thousand years to create a stable country.

Yet it takes minutes to vandalise a painting, less than a minute to kill someone, a few months of plotting and use of other people's technology to destroy a tower or cathedral, and less than a century to destroy a civilization.

Destruction is easy and requires no particular intelligence, merely a lack of empathy.

But to create something worthwhile one needs hardwork, passion and genius.

How many years did Varys expend training Aegon to be the perfect King? How many years plotting to put him there?

Yet it took LF a few lies and in a matter of months Westeros was at war.

Speaking of building, we have Sansa's symbolic rebuilding of Winterfell via the snow castle construction in the Eyrie. LF offers his assistance, but he represents the giant responsible for its destruction, and in that scene he's much more interested in coming on to Sansa, and breaking down her defenses.

It came across my mind, I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it before but I believe that Sansa is the lone wolf if anything because of the fact that she actually is one. She is the only one without her direwolf. Nymeria is still in Westeros, Summer is with Bran, Ghost is with Jon, Shaggy is with Rickon and Grey Wind went to heaven with Robb. Sansa doesn't have her direwolf anymore. With all the circumstances plus this, she qualifies as the lone wolf.

Welcome shadowsc3! :) Sansa is certainly isolated and without a wolf, but I tend to think that none of the Stark children truly embody that definition. They might imagine that they are, but the pack still survives, even if in memory, and like Jojen says, the wolves will return.

A lot of reaching out and touching going on with these two.

Yup :) Martin didn't lie when he said he's played with it in the books.

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I still love the scene in Sansa's bedroom during the Battle of the Blackwater, after she sings and then she reaches up and touches his face. I guess that's all about the gaze there. The gaze, the sympathetic touch and the singing have such a powerful effect and it was so moving to read it.

Yes! It is also a powerful one. Really touching!

Hope that Sandor-Sandy has gone and you (and all that are suffering it) are fine.

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About LF: I always think of him as a smart guy. Anyway he always reminds me to a poker player (and a real good one). He may have that diva moments with Tyrion, but he can stand others when he knows that can be caught and he is still keeping cold. As at the Hand Tourney when he bets against the Hound. When the Hound wins Jaime, Renly says that he could have gone more if Tyrion was there. Ned is not able at that moment to associated that the dagger was won cause Tyrion bet against Jaime (and Tyrion never bets against Jaime). And there it is LF just acting normal.

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Thanks everyone :). Where I am specifically is okay, although there is massive flooding nearby, a lot of phones are out, a lot of houses were destroyed in our friends' neighborhood in Queens (but they are okay)...ugh! We heard of someone (friend of a friend) who was actually killed in a house collapse on Staten Island...ugh.

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Welcome Shadowsc3!

As Brash has said: the pack will return!! I´m just can wait to read how!!

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More about LF: also at the caos and destruction that he plays, it is necessary to be skillfull. He can´t be the best player, but he has luck and his schemes are working. He will fall, of course, and I hope that before that he can corrupt completely Sansa.

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