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brashcandy

From Pawn to Player: Rethinking Sansa XIV

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Hi all. We r ok here but my power is out & my internet. Responding on my phone from a cafe w/ internet just to say hi. Can't comment much more ATM.

Great to hear you're ok Elba :) Stay safe and hope you're reconnected soon.

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Thank you, Le Cygne. Glad to be of use. And you, too, Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun.

I'll work on that bgona, I promise. Milady of York also has some notes about one-handed people I believe.

Milady will write a second essay for the section in the B&B Project outline recently created exclusively for analysing the Beast. Not so soon, but she will. She’ll include her thoughts on fire and lameness in it, too. And will discuss three Beasts we’ve sadly overlooked somewhat in this project, but deserve their own paper:

a. Jaime Lannister,

b. Jaime Lannister, and

c. Jaime Lannister.

:D

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Maybe he could give Sansa some information that could help her destroy Cersei.

More than just some information, I would say. Sandor was her sworn shield before he was Joffrey’s, who said he was more his mother’s dog than his. Cersei tends to underestimate people, and doesn’t watch her behaviour much in the presence of servants and retainers, and he, as bodyguard, was closest to her most of the time, like he was with Joffrey. He not only knows a lot of LF’s skeletons in the closet and most of the Lannisters’, but the Queen Regent’s dirty secrets, including probably the paternity of her children–if he doesn’t know, at least he suspects it. The fact that he was so confident that he'd be of use to Robb Stark also points to the fact that he knew the value of the information he had about his former overlords, and how damaging it was.

Also, thanks Mahaut for your essay on giants and dwarves and also to Milady for explaining the differences between a Titan and Giant. I didn't know about that but I think the distinction is important. Littlefinger seems to have qualities of both. He's extremely intelligent for sure, but his gluttony and overreaching like a giant are a big part of his character as well. It makes for a very dangerous combination.

I associate Littlefinger more with a Giant than with a Titan, because the latter were –some of them, at least– not afraid of siding with lesser humans against the gods for a good cause, or even risking their status for their good, as Prometheus did. On the other part, Giants were mostly destructive, never creative; they never aided anyone but themselves and every move of theirs was for their own goals.

Anyways, no doubt Titans and Giants are dangerous, but perhaps the very fact of their standing above everyone else, prevents them from noticing the little things which will lead to their destruction.

You’ve made me remember which the Giants’ two major weaknesses are: violence and selfishness. Which led to uncontrollable destructiveness. They knew how to win battles –by force–, but they did not know how to win a war– with strategic planning and cooperation/allies. Or, in other words, they’re so destructive that they tend to destroy themselves as well, for lack of self-control.

I find myself in agreement with butterbumps! regarding Littlefinger. A world class schemer is emotionally intelligent in the sense that he knows the surest way to manipulate people is through their emotions, their desires, their feelings and perceptions. Gold and power come and go, they are unstable assets, but what is in your soul stays in your soul; and if you win a person by feeding him/her what his/her soul desires, you have that person on your side more firmly than if you had bought them. His idea of manipulating people is pretty unsophisticated, he’s not fully mastered one of the most crucial skills of genius puppeteers in History: know a person’s emotional weakness, which is different in each, and use it in your favour, but beware of showing your own weakness to outsiders.

Psychological & emotional manipulation requires more skill than blackmail & bribe, which are his preferred methods.

In that regard, Varys is more dangerous because he’s subtle, you cannot read him so easily, for he has control of his own emotions and can feign affability or innocuousness, almost any emotion, which LF cannot. He’s emotionally very immature himself, hasn’t gotten over his own personal grudges nor knows how to conceal his emotions successfully. And he’s still licking a decades-old wound. What sort of a highly intelligent Machiavelli would go around King’s Landing bragging about taking the virginity of a high lord’s daughter, revealing his weak spot for all to see? Tyrion was able to read him so quickly and accurately, and use his weakness against him because he didn’t bother to conceal it: he was practically shouting: See, I “love” Catelyn Stark, and still cannot get over her. And when he met Sansa… again, he shouted to the world what his weakness was.

In my humble opinion, his lack of understanding with regards to intrinsic motivation and favouring extrinsic motivation instead will be his perdition, eventually.

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Thank you, Le Cygne. Glad to be of use. And you, too, Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun.

Milady will write a second essay for the section in the B&B Project outline recently created exclusively for analysing the Beast. Not so soon, but she will. She’ll include her thoughts on fire and lameness in it, too. And will discuss three Beasts we’ve sadly overlooked somewhat in this project, but deserve their own paper:

a. Jaime Lannister,

b. Jaime Lannister, and

c. Jaime Lannister.

:D

Not beasts as such, but there are two other people who are without arms/hands. Donal Noye and Jacelyn Bywater. Bywater is even referred to as "Ironhand". They are probably more relevant to Jaime's story line, but since you mentioned onehanded/lame people, these two stood out in my mind. :)

In that regard, Varys is more dangerous because he’s subtle, you cannot read him so easily, for he has control of his own emotions and can feign affability or innocuousness, almost any emotion, which LF cannot. He’s emotionally very immature himself, hasn’t gotten over his own personal grudges nor knows how to conceal his emotions successfully. And he’s still licking a decades-old wound. What sort of a highly intelligent Machiavelli would go around King’s Landing bragging about taking the virginity of a high lord’s daughter, revealing his weak spot for all to see? Tyrion was able to read him so quickly and accurately, and use his weakness against him because he didn’t bother to conceal it: he was practically shouting: See, I “love” Catelyn Stark, and still cannot get over her. And when he met Sansa… again, he shouted to the world what his weakness was.

In my humble opinion, his lack of understanding with regards to intrinsic motivation and favouring extrinsic motivation instead will be his perdition, eventually.

I'm in complete agreement with you on Littlefinger and his scheming. He has laid his weaknesses wide open, it's just that nobody has bothered to exploit them. Tyrion could have, had he looked closer. LF's scheme with the dagger and Cat may have thrown him off the scent a bit though, but really, the bragging about taking both Lysa's and cat's maidenheads should have been a clue in for Tyrion. The duel with Brandon must be common knowledge as well, which should have tipped Tyrion off. We know Tyrion is not ignorant about history. He knows the fate of the last four Hands far better than Littlefinger, and he shows when Oberyn talks to him that he knows the Targaryen Kings and their Hands well, too.

Varys probably could undo LF should he bother to, but he chooses not to. Surely, he knows LF's motivations.

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Didn't want to respond in a Sansa thread about LF but after seeing a few posts I feel people here are misunderstanding LF a bit.

He is not some brutal, dumber version of the Joker. He is what he portrays he is: a ruthless courtier willing to go over corpses to advance himself. The Joker wants to see the world burn, but LF isn't the type who wants to topple governments for the **** of it. He's perfectly happy to work within orginazations - as long as it profits him.

I also find it curious that people call LF a poor actor. Because I feel, whenever I read about LF, that he is being brutally direct. He plainly tells people like Tyrion and Cercei in their faces he wants to be rewarded. That's not acting, that's just being direct. Whenever he is smug (such as with Tyrion and the knife) he is not poorly acting. He has a reason (in his mind) to be smug, because he is getting away with it.

Above somewhere it was mentioned that LF is showing all his weaknesses, for example when he first met Sansa on the stands. For one, no-one else saw it or took particulair notice of it. And it is entirely within character (as we find it in GoT and subsequent novels). Sansa is for him a symbol, both a young version of Cat (the woman that he indeed loved - or so he thinks) and a daughter he never had. So him showing surprise and fascination the first time he met Sansa is not surprising.

Secondly, he hid his "weakness" for Sansa very well, Eddard never knew and the Lannisters never suspected he was emotional (so far LF gets emotional) about Sansa. Even after proposing to Cercei he marry Sansa. And even Varys, who is usually attributed as superhuman on these forums, has little clue about this connection, as Varys had no idea where Sansa disappeared to or how, and he did know where LF was.

In other words, I think LF does do a good job of hiding his intentions (more on that below) and that he is a worst actor then Varys, well, yes probably, but I get the impression LF doesn't bother with acting most of the time. He is a smug bastard after all. I think he even likes the danger of it all, the high-stake gambler that he is.

Varys probably could undo LF should he bother to, but he chooses not to. Surely, he knows LF's motivations.

Varys doesn't. He himself said so in GoT to Illyrio. Furthermore Varys isn't omnipotent. This has been confirmed by Martin himself. Varys didn't know about the LF-Sansa connection, he did not know about Doran's letter to Ser William Darry and it is highly like he did not know R+L=J.

Just to name a few things.

I love Varys though as a character, as much as I love LF as a character. I just don't see the vast superiority and superhuman abilities assigned to Varys over LF. Varys does things differently and it is not surprising considering his background. He was trained a murmur - masters of misdirection (and acting). LF is trained as a courtier - focussed on intrigue, backstabbing, bootlicking and politics.

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Above somewhere it was mentioned that LF is showing all his weaknesses, for example when he first met Sansa on the stands. For one, no-one else saw it or took particular notice of it.

He’s not showing all his weaknesses, he’s showing the weakness that could ruin all his plans. There’s a big difference in that. He’s a poor actor not just because he cannot hide his feelings, but because he’s not emotionally intelligent or emotionally mature, as great actors are. Good actors not only hide their emotions, which is all he can do, but control them. You see him from a courtier, schemer standpoint. I see him from a psychological standpoint.

Secondly, he hid his "weakness" for Sansa very well, Eddard never knew and the Lannisters never suspected he was emotional (so far LF gets emotional) about Sansa.

Neddie was never a very perceptive man when it came to emotions and people’s true nature, was he? Otherwise he’d not have trusted the Mockingbird in the first place. And as for nobody noticing, I beg to differ. Sansa did, more than once, but she was too young to understand the implications, and Septa Mordane was more concerned with etiquette than anything. As for the Lannisters not noticing: first, they were more concerned with other things–such as a war and staying in power; second, they didn’t see them interacting much, did they? Third, those who could didn’t bother using it against him or digging deeper into what should’ve been obvious to them. And if we are talking about Cersei, she doesn’t count perceptivity among her qualities, either, and she just dismissed him as an arriviste aiming for a girl far above his station. For Tyrion or even Varys or anyone else who cared to reflect on it, his asking for Sansa’s hand in marriage would have been a big, red, giant, obvious clue.

I get the impression LF doesn't bother with acting most of the time.

Then he needs to improve his acting, it is key in intrigue and scheming, not bluntness and directness. Control and subtlety is everything for a courtier, not just for a master of whispers. And LF has shown he can lose his control in the presence of Sansa, as he did when he kissed her in public at the Eyrie. Another shout to outsiders about his weakness, and in a more dangerous setting, because she is supposed to be his daughter and whoever saw him could talk.

Furthermore, we’re not saying that Varys is omnipotent or omniscient, but that he’s more dangerous because he’s subtler. LF himself remarked once to Sansa that a dagger when hidden is more dangerous because you don’t see it. And besides, we do know what LF’s Achilles' heel is, he's shown it to us, but do we know which Varys’ is, for example? No. And I am not referring to something abstract, like not knowing about LF and Sansa, or about Sandor and Sansa, or Rhaegar and Lyanna, but to some concrete weakness, with a name or a face, like in the case of LF.

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In other words, I think LF does do a good job of hiding his intentions (more on that below) and that he is a worst actor then Varys, well, yes probably, but I get the impression LF doesn't bother with acting most of the time. He is a smug bastard after all. I think he even likes the danger of it all, the high-stake gambler that he is.

Hi! Scipio Africanus. I´m glad cause there is more people that see him as a gambler!!

It is good to have another that appreciate his mind. I never will say which one I prefer (maybe LF because reading about him I am able to know more of him, reading Varys is harder to know his weakness, I don´t like not to know the weakness of a dangerous mastermind).

------------

Milady just to point out: many good actors aren´t really mature (there are some, but no all). That is one of the things why they like to act, to be another person.

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Neddie was never a very perceptive man when it came to emotions and people’s true nature, was he? Otherwise he’d not have trusted the Mockingbird in the first place. And as for nobody noticing, I beg to differ. Sansa did, more than once, but she was too young to understand the implications, and Septa Mordane was more concerned with etiquette than anything. As for the Lannisters not noticing: first, they were more concerned with other things–such as a war and staying in power; second, they didn’t see them interacting much, did they? Third, those who could didn’t bother using it against him or digging deeper into what should’ve been obvious to them. And if we are talking about Cersei, she doesn’t count perceptivity among her qualities, either, and she just dismissed him as an arriviste aiming for a girl far above his station. For Tyrion or even Varys or anyone else who cared to reflect on it, his asking for Sansa’s hand in marriage would have been a big, red, giant, obvious clue.

Of course Sansa noticed. Anybody would notice when someone suddenly appears from behind and well, starts talking a bit creepy to you.

The point is no one else noticed. Not Tyrion and not Varys. Did they just not bother reflecting about it? Well could be. But Tyrion never trusted LF and Varys kept tabs on everyone, including LF. So LF must've done something right in hiding his weakness.

That we as reader know stuff should not count. Most people inbook think Cercei's children are legit while we know better. A lot of people inbook think Brienne of Tarth killed Renly while we know that it was Stan and Mel's shadowbabe.

Again, a lot of people have not picked up LF's "abnormal" interest in Sansa. That is what is important.

Hi! Scipio Africanus. I´m glad cause there is more people that see him as a gambler!!

It is good to have another that appreciate his mind. I never will say which one I prefer (maybe LF because reading about him I am able to know more of him, reading Varys is harder to know his weakness, I don´t like not to know the weakness of a dangerous mastermind).

LF is the kind of guy who never knows when to quit while Varys probably does know when to stop (at least, that is my feeling, no hard evidence).

That is LF's biggest weakness. What Varys' biggest weakness is? We'll have to wait to we find out more of his true intentions. If it is really restoring Aegon to the throne? Then his weakness is that he is commited and can't back another horse, so if Aegon loses he's lost too.

LF is more flexible that way. But again we don't know for sure if Varys ultimate goal is the Aegon restoration.

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Didn't want to respond in a Sansa thread about LF but after seeing a few posts I feel people here are misunderstanding LF a bit.

Just a FYI, Butterbumps' post was first fielded in the Tyrion re-read thread. If you want to raise particular arguments against that reading of Littlefinger, it may be a good idea to go check the Tyrion re-read threads to understand where this analysis originates and what parts of the novels it's based on. With quotes and textual evidence, I might add.

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Just a FYI, Butterbumps' post was first fielded in the Tyrion re-read thread. If you want to raise particular arguments against that reading of Littlefinger, it may be a good idea to go check the Tyrion re-read threads to understand where this analysis originates and what parts of the novels it's based on. With quotes and textual evidence, I might add.

Thought it was posted here as well but yes it is kind of "offtopic" as I first noted.

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Thought it was posted here as well but yes it is kind of "offtopic" as I first noted.

Slightly off topic, but bumps! has promised to be back here with additional thoughts :)

Of course Sansa noticed. Anybody would notice when someone suddenly appears from behind and well, starts talking a bit creepy to you.

I think this is an understatement. It's not just that Sansa noticed because he was focused on her, but it's the nature of that attention that really stands out. I don't think LF even went out of his way to be particularly creepy, but his desire for her is evident in nearly all of their interactions, making it a dangerous and noticeable weakness, had anyone been paying due attention. When someone is paying attention, like Lysa was in the Vale, we see the disastrous consequences it can have, and the revelations she made to Sansa might very well still come back to haunt him.

The point is no one else noticed. Not Tyrion and not Varys. Did they just not bother reflecting about it? Well could be. But Tyrion never trusted LF and Varys kept tabs on everyone, including LF. So LF must've done something right in hiding his weakness.

To be fair though, how could they have really noticed? For the majority of Tyrion's time in KL, LF has no contact with Sansa, and prior to this he encountered her in public settings, with the council meeting being the only one where Varys was present. As for Varys's little birds, LF is able to get around this by having her meet Dontos in the godswood.

That we as reader know stuff should not count. Most people inbook think Cercei's children are legit while we know better. A lot of people inbook think Brienne of Tarth killed Renly while we know that it was Stan and Mel's shadowbabe.

Again, a lot of people have not picked up LF's "abnormal" interest in Sansa. That is what is important.

Again, LF's abnormal interest in Sansa was not something that most people could have realistically picked up on while they were in KL (I actually think the big miss from all of the players was her developing relationship with Sandor). However, now that they're in the Vale, people have noticed, and will I expect, continue to do so; sharp-eyed Randa Royce will not be easy to fool when it comes to the Lord Paramount's unusual interest in his daughter.

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As far as noticing stuff goes, Sansa did observe upon meeting LF how his eyes did not smile when his lips did. That's no small thing for a young girl, to be fair.

I have a question: How much have you explored the LF/Heathcliff parallel here? I'm sure it's been discussed to bits, but I guess it doesn't hurt to ask, because the parallels just jump out from the pages. Thanks.

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Again, LF's abnormal interest in Sansa was not something that most people could have realistically picked up on while they were in KL (I actually think the big miss from all of the players was her developing relationship with Sandor). However, now that they're in the Vale, people have noticed, and will I expect, continue to do so; sharp-eyed Randa Royce will not be easy to fool when it comes to the Lord Paramount's unusual interest in his daughter.

The statement that was made by @Milady (and others I think) was that LF was such a poor actor and that Varys+Tyrion could easily have exploited/defeated LF because he showed his weakness.

My point was that LF actually did hide his weakness, because Varys despite his little birds never picked it up, nor Tyrion who mistrusted LF and even was married to Sansa.

My other point was that LF rarely acted but was brutally direct towards people in most situations. He was absolutely callous when asking for rewards from Tyrion and Cercei.

Even when lying about the dagger it was easy for him because a Lannister actually did order the hit on Bran, he just named the wrong name.

Slightly off topic, but bumps! has promised to be back here with additional thoughts :)

Well this is a Sansa topic so perhaps some of the discussion should go elsewhere. While Sansa's fate in WoW is intertwined with LF's her future is more then the misadventures of a ruthless gambling sociopath courtier called LF.

I do find his character and that of Varys fascinating in the series so that's why I responded.

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My point was that LF actually did hide his weakness, because Varys despite his little birds never picked it up, nor Tyrion who mistrusted LF and even was married to Sansa.

My other point was that LF rarely acted but was brutally direct towards people in most situations. He was absolutely callous when asking for rewards from Tyrion and Cercei.

Of what do we speak when we speak of LF’s Achilles' heel? We aren’t speaking here of his flaws as a human being or his competence/incompetence as a schemer in general, or the weaknesses his plans in general might have. No, we are talking about a very specific, very evident and very dangerous weakness. His obsessive feelings toward Catelyn Tully Stark, extended to her daughter Sansa.

Why is it his biggest weakness? Because Catelyn Stark is one –if not the– driving force behind his behaviour in this case, and the reason he wants to prove himself, to demonstrate to those stiff-backed noblemen that he’s better than them. He was denied a nobleman’s daughter because he wasn’t deemed worthy, and some years later, when he’s still nursing that wound to his self-esteem, as evidenced by his bragging about taking both Tully girls’ maidenheads, he’s again denied the hand of another prinzessin. And what makes it worse is that it’s not just any noblewoman, a Tyrell or a Martell or whoever else. No. It’s a Stark of Winterfell, who, for additional hurt, is daughter to the same woman he claims to love and the man he thinks stole her from him and is brother to the man who wounded him, helping in the birth of Littlefinger, the perverse schemer, in someone who until then was just plain Petyr Baelish.

This obsession was transferred to her daughter, as you know. His desire for Sansa Stark is his weakness. He wants her for himself and is willing to go to great extents for her, and he already has. And he’s shouting to everyone his biggest secret by being so careless around her. He cannot control it. The greatest schemers never show their biggest weakness for the enemy to pick it up and use against them. Sure, even the greatest schemers make mistakes, have flaws, they fail, their plans go to the eighth hell, etc., but they do not show their biggest weakness to the enemy willingly because of their own lack of control, carelessness or bluntness, nor do they let themselves be controlled by that weakness, like Petyr does. They try to hide it or mask it, because the whole point of it is to never let your biggest flaw be known to anyone but yourself.

You say that Littlefinger did hide his weakness. And Lyanna, Brash and I say: no, he didn’t.

Why? You say: because Ned, Tyrion, Varys, Cersei, or Balerion the cat, did not notice it. And we have pointed already that there was no realistic situation where they could have and in the cases where they could have, the person was not known for being a genius reader of people’s intentions and emotions, i.e. Cersei and Neddie. Which leads me to say that: There’s a big difference between not being discovered because you were lucky enough that nobody was looking at you with their eyes wide open and full concentration, and not being discovered because you are the best of liars or particularly good at hiding it. I think we know which group he belongs in. It was more the players’ fault than LF’s merit, because he’d been giving away all sorts of clues with regards to Sansa, who did sense what was going there.

LF was absent for much of the time Sansa was a hostage, which accounts for why Tyrion missed this. But we can assert he could’ve noticed and used it against him because he'd already picked up on Petyr’s bragging about Catelyn, and in fact did use it against him by revealing it to Lady Stark when she kidnapped him. As for Varys, do you seriously think he could’ve revealed what he knows about LF to a third person? This is a man that reveals only what is convenient and no more. When you say that LF was just being blunt, then you are pointing to another big flaw, this time as a schemer, because by being blunt he reveals his plans and his ambitions to an attentive listener, as Tyrion was being at that moment. And yes, LF acts; he is Littlefinger and he’s Petyr. He has to act to survive in that court, where everyone is an actor and a liar. If he didn’t act or did so rarely, he’d be no good at high-stake gambling, because they necessarily have to feign emotions, wear a mask, it’s a prerequisite. Or else, they’d be like an open book for the more cunning foxes to read and use against them.

LF and Sansa interacted in public, and even so, it’s interesting that all the times they interacted in public, this little girl managed to notice his intentions weren’t the colour of snow in winter, when nobody else did. She noticed his hungry gaze, the way he undressed her with his eyes when in the presence of the Council members, to name another example apart from that first time. So much for hiding his weakness. Now imagine someone had been observing his face…

And Dontos, to me, was more to cover his back, so nobody could track her escape to his intervention. Basic common sense.

Finally, we have his behaviour at the Vale. Here LF has totally lost it. Those kisses are no way to hide anything but to announce to the world what your intentions are, louder than ever. And make no mistake, it was not just a careless moment but already a pattern of behaviour: he demands kisses, he gropes her, he reveals damning secrets to her, etc. People have eyes, and there are Lords at the Vale that are not exactly happy with him.

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Not beasts as such, but there are two other people who are without arms/hands. Donal Noye and Jacelyn Bywater. Bywater is even referred to as "Ironhand". They are probably more relevant to Jaime's story line, but since you mentioned onehanded/lame people, these two stood out in my mind. :)

Thank you for bringing these two up, Lyanna. While I doubt I'll include Noye in the analysis, I do think I'll mention Jacelyn Bywater, for I believe there's an interesting point to be made about one-handedness and hand replacements made of metal.

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Finally, we have his behaviour at the Vale. Here LF has totally lost it. Those kisses are no way to hide anything but to announce to the world what your intentions are, louder than ever. And make no mistake, it was not just a careless moment but already a pattern of behaviour: he demands kisses, he gropes her, he reveals damning secrets to her, etc. People have eyes, and there are Lords at the Vale that are not exactly happy with him.

Come come, my compatriots; let us join hands and hope for a Stannis-esque "This isn't King's Landing, you creep," moment from Bronze Yohn Royce. :grouphug:

It seems a common-enough consensus that Sansa will be LF's undoing, and while this might be the case, this post got me thinking that the Lords of the Vale might have a lot to do with it. Sansa would probably be able to hide her identity (preventing Cersei from taking notice of anything) and reveal LF for the schemer he is at the same time, and at that point, if LF starts ranting about his poor bastard girl being a Stark, no one will actually notice or care enough for there to be any consequences imo (just as Sansa disregards Lysa's last words because, hey, she was pretty nutty. Taste of your own jerk medicine, LF! :smug: ). Royce thinks LF is pretty shady to begin with, and if his daughter - HIS OWN DAUGHTER, BY THE SEVEN (as far as he knows lol) - starts spouting off about how he's creepy and evil and plotting to kill SR, then the Lords Declarant will probably grab the opportunity to dispose of him with both hands.

I just kind of sat down and typed this out, so it's probably not likely or coherent to anyone... sorry... :blushing:

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Thank you for bringing these two up, Lyanna. While I doubt I'll include Noye in the analysis, I do think I'll mention Jacelyn Bywater, for I believe there's an interesting point to be made about one-handedness and hand replacements made of metal.

Donal Noye is a great counterpoint because his skilled hands were creative while Jaime's and Bywater's skill was destructive. Noye also seems to have suceeded in getting round the loss of his hand - it's a triumph over the futility or loss of purpose which Jaime feels.

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starts spouting off about how he's creepy and evil and plotting to kill SR, then the Lords Declarant will probably grab the opportunity to dispose of him with both hands.

Don't be surprised if if, apart from Bronze Yohn, the other Lords Declarant are eating out of Petyr's hand in WoW. He already has Lyn Corbray in his pocket...

You say that Littlefinger did hide his weakness. And Lyanna, Brash and I say: no, he didn’t.

Why? You say: because Ned, Tyrion, Varys, Cersei, or Balerion the cat, did not notice it. And we have pointed already that there was no realistic situation where they could have and in the cases where they could have,

LF was absent for much of the time Sansa was a hostage, which accounts for why Tyrion missed this. But we can assert he could’ve noticed and used it against him because he'd already picked up on Petyr’s bragging about Catelyn, and in fact did use it against him by revealing it to Lady Stark when she kidnapped him. As for Varys, do you seriously think he could’ve revealed what he knows about LF to a third person? This is a man that reveals only what is convenient and no more. When you say that LF was just being blunt, then you are pointing to another big flaw, this time as a schemer, because by being blunt he reveals his plans and his ambitions to an attentive listener, as Tyrion was being at that moment. And yes, LF acts; he is Littlefinger and he’s Petyr. He has to act to survive in that court, where everyone is an actor and a liar. If he didn’t act or did so rarely, he’d be no good at high-stake gambling, because they necessarily have to feign emotions, wear a mask, it’s a prerequisite. Or else, they’d be like an open book for the more cunning foxes to read and use against them.

I'm not trying to be difficult here but if no one noticed it then he succeeded in hiding his weakness, didn't he?

What will happen in WoW is another matter but up till now isn't he a succes?

As for the acting part. I still say Petyr is notoriously not acting, he was direct and callous towards Eddard, Cercei and Tyrion. Also notice the difference when Petyr and Varys are together how they worded their thoughts. Fascinating stuff I find.

Finally the gambling part. Not all games where people gamble requires acting. Varys is a Texas Hold 'Em poker player, Petyr a (Russian) Roulette player. That's the difference.

But I'll stop now about LF, for I do believe Sansa is more then a plaything for gambling man Petyr Baelish.

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