Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

brashcandy

From Pawn to Player: Rethinking Sansa XIV

Recommended Posts

I think it's mostly clever of Littlefinger to avoid Sansa in King's Landing. He has sort of forced himself into her company at the Eyrie which is where things are starting to get out of hand for him, especially now that Sansa is going to live in more proximity with younger females who can be seen as companions, even for a bastard daughter. I do think he's very clever but at certain points he reacts pretty revealingly where his obsession with Catelyn and now Sansa overcomes his logic. He is a fantastic manipulator when he has the right information (Lyn Corbray, Dontos, early Sansa through Dontos, Joffrey, Marillion, Lysa, etc.) but when he's offered Harrenhal he misreads Tyrion. When Sansa's betrothal to Joffrey is being broken, he asks for her hand. He tells Sansa that in order to succesfully hide her identity she must completely believe herself to be his daughter in order to act it, but kisses and touches her like a lover when he can. He tells her about the 'virtues' of the ''hidden dagger'' but reveals major chunks of his plans to Alayne. He goes with the flow rather than create a complete and rigid master-plan, but he also has the tendency to play Loki and smugly view the damage he's caused and he has problems controlling his impulses around Sansa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update on the male relationships project: butterbumps! - board member extraordinaire and current co-host of the Tyrion reread project, has agreed to take over the analysis on Sansa's relationship with Littlefinger in the series. bumps!, I cannot thank you enough for agreeing to do this on such short notice, and in the midst of other pressing concerns. xx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi! I´m just telling you that I am going to post the essay about the music at the Beauty and the Beast. It is quite long so it will be divided into three posts. I hope you like it. ;)

And about before I told Scipious Africanus to be able to talk about LF without recall that the post was first at the Tyrion reread. Sorry.

It is a really good new that Butterbumps will contribute with that analysis!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Beauty and the Beast: Music to dream and think

Music is always present in our lives, it reflects our mood, it makes us cheer up or calm down; it even helps us cry and thus release tension.

It shows emotion, sensitivity, tells stories and experiences. One of these stories is the one we are dealing with now, Beauty and the Beast. It does so from as many different angles and perspectives as each composer or singer is different from another. Each of them offers their own unique perspective. I am going to focus on musicals, ballet, opera music and songs that all of us can hear on the radio or on TV any day.

As this is about music, I am going to add a lot of links to YouTube (especially because most of this music is related to visual aspects, and more so in this case) and to song lyrics. I advise you to listen to the music preferably with your headphones on (especially film soundtracks and opera) if you can, because it will help you feel carried away by the melody.

1. - Film Soundtrack

The soundtrack for Jean Cocteau's movie was composed by Georges Auric (1899-1983), a French composer considered a musical genius since childhood and who was buried in Montparnasse Cemetery.

The soundtrack consists of 24 parts:

1. Main Title (2:01)

2. Beauty and Avenant (1:25)

3. In the Forest (3:15)

4. The Banquet Hall (3:35)

5. The Theft of a Rose (1:48)

6. The Merchant´s Return (0:59)

7. Beauty´s Departure (1:37)

8. Mysterious Colors (3:37)

9. Appearance of the Beast (1:39)

10. In the Bedroom (1:18)

11. The Dinner (3:39)

12. Frightful Moments (4:13)

13. The Burlesque of the Draper (2:51)

14. Conversations in the Park (3:59)

15. The Promise (2:07)

16. Beast´s Jealousy (1:29)

17. Love´s Despair (1:39)

18. The Five Secrets (4:03)

19. The Waiting (2:08)

20. Avenant´s Proposal (1:25)

21. The Mirror and the Glove (3:29)

22. Diane´s Pavilion (4:16)

23. Prince Charming (2:50)

24. Flying upwards (2:22)

The music was composed separately and played at the same time as the film. This BSO can be considered a masterpiece although its parts are brief, because each of them can carry us to a magical, tender and mysterious oneiric world, full of romanticism.

The Banquet Hall

The music sounds like a soft breeze, mixed with human humming (as a boy falling asleep and entering dreamland carried by the sound of his mother’s voice). It takes you to a strange place where you can feel the weirdness, but still don’t feel fear, and instead there is a disturbing echo, like the Stark motto, Winter is Coming. They know what will happen, that people will suffer, but it’s still summer and winter is far away, so people go on with their normal lives as if winter will never come.

The Mysterious Colors

This song begins with slow, soft sounds. Gradually, slowly, it gains more and more intensity, all filled with romantic notes. It is one of the most beautiful pieces of the Beauty and the Beast soundtrack.

Sansa dreams of her songs, and of love. And these dreams are deeply rooted in her. It is a longing for love (to give and receive it). All her beauty comes from that love more than from her external appearance. And it is what gives her more strength.

The Mirror and The Glove

This piece is a mixture of softness and forcefulness. You feel ready to jump, feeling all the accumulated tension. And, then, just a minute later, you are again in a quiet mood. It is just like the feelings that Sansa has. You can think that nothing is happening, but everything is moving and it is ready to start a fight. It is like the quiet moment before a battle.

2.-The Opera

Both lyrics and libretto were composed by Philip Glass in 1994, inspired by Jean Cocteau’s film. It’s part of a trilogy about this director; the other two works are Orpheus (a piano suite) and Les Enfants Terribles (a dancing opera). The opera has nine characters, but can be sung by four voices: a mezzosoprano, a soprano, a baritone and a bass.

The opera is divided in nineteen sections, which are related to certain dialogues in the film. They are related to such an extent that, in its premiere, the movie was projected in silent mode at the same time as the opera was performed in a concert without acting (only singing).

I have found

which I would like to show you. It is divided in three parts. Here you can see the first one, the one that leads to the rest. I do not know the names of the performers and it is written in French.

I must talk about Philip Glass, the composer. He belongs to the minimalist movement, which gets rid of unnecessary elements. His music is based on repetitive movements. Personally, this has not bothered me, for Pachelbel’s Canon is one of the works I like best. as it is one of the compositions that soothes me and helps me restore my balance. Perhaps this is the reason why I prefer this opera to the original movie soundtrack, despite the fact that I find the opera darker and disturbing.

In my view, Beauty and the Beast has been lucky, because both Auric and Glass can be considered great composers. Auric manages to bring out a more romantic atmosphere, which fuels the sort of surrealistic dreams they inspire so often. I find the atmosphere Glass depicts more claustrophobic.

We could relate Auric's music to the Sansa we met in Winterfell, with her dreams and ideals, while the Sansa Glass suggests is more the one of King’s Landing and the Vale. A more reclusive Sansa, whose dreams still exist, but they are gradually changing as if she was awakening to a new reality.

Edit: due to mistakes that I couldn´t see but one of my beta Milady see it (the other one is MaryaStone).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3. - Disney's Movie and the Musical

The Beauty and the Beast musical is based on the songs from the Disney movie with the same title. The soundtrack was composed by Allan Menken and Howard Ashman. The latter died from AIDS before the composition was finished, but left the premises for the Broadway musical.

The movie songs were performed at the same time as the orchestra was playing, they were not added afterwards. At the end of the film, we can hear the pop song Beauty and the Beast, sung by Celine Dion and Peabo Bryson, which is famous all over the world. The movie received two Oscar awards, to the best soundtrack and to the best original song (Beauty and the Beast), and it also received two other nominations (Belle and Be Our Guest). It was the first movie in the history of the Oscars to have three songs nominated simultaneously.

The musical includes seven more songs which are not present in the film, such as Human Again (these were included in the 2002 Special Edition), and has received other awards, such as a Tony. It also holds a record for being the eighth longest running production in Broadway.

In the musical, there are several obvious differences to be found if we compare it to the movie. For example, Phillip the horse is not present and there are no sheep in the initial Belle song, or that LeFou sings instead of the men in the canteen. Gaston is even viler in the musical, which makes clear he has no intention to remain loyal to Belle, while this is not clear in the movie.

This show retains the essence of the tale (as the song says: beauty is inside you), which remains exemplary. Selfish, vile and violent actions only generate more violence and they end up damaging the one who commits them, whereas love conquers all. Perhaps the best conclusion is that we should not be deceived by external appearances in order to judge a person's character accurately, we must find what their inner self, the real person, is like.

This is exactly what Sansa has learned throughout the series. In the beginning, she was misled by appearances, but later she decided to keep her ideals, as she started to realize appearances are not what they seem: Joffrey is not her ideal prince, but a vile psychopath who enjoys seeing other people suffer. Sandor is not the heartless monster he seems and ends up becoming a real friend she misses when he is gone, and whose real heart she has been able to glimpse. Petyr is someone she does not trust because she has learned to go further and seen his real inner self. Now she is learning to see how his mind works.

With regards to love, Sansa decides that if one day she becomes queen, she will be able to make people love her and not fear her. She has learned how much power love holds, and how dangerous fear is. Fear can turn into panic, and then situations cannot be controlled, as people who are terrified cannot listen to the voice of reason; scared people do not trust you, so you cannot calm them down.

Here you can have all the musical lyrics.

This song can be associated with Sansa’s feelings at the Vale. She doesn’t know how long she will stay there, she doesn’t know if she can feel the Eyrie is her home because there is too much silence, no animals, and no godswood. Her family is not there. Her home is where her heart is: Winterfell, her childhood. She has lost her freedom; she does not have a shelter to protect herself against danger.

And the last song can be related to all the Starks, Sandor, and even Theon. Maybe this song is too naïve. They are too damaged to be able to return to the starting point (we can never return to that point because events around us change us). But either way, they are still dreaming of freedom, of being able to do again what they want to do.

4.- Ballet

Beauty and the Beast has been performed many times as a ballet. It has a wide variety of formats. We can find classic ones with music from the film or the opera, and with music by other composers. We can also find performances based on the musical. I have even found a performance by the Russian Ballet on Ice.

Among everything I have seen on the internet, what has attracted my attention more is

. It is a classic one, which transmits elegance, while it evokes a wide range of emotions.

Perhaps it is through ballet that we can see more clearly how similar Belle and Sansa are. Watching Belle dancing is witnessing how she expresses herself without words.

Although Sansa can use words very well, she does not show her feelings. Joining Belle and Sansa, it looks as if their feelings took flight, you can see their emotions, even those emotions book Sansa hardly ever shows. She keeps them hidden, so hidden that those around her come to think she is stupid. She does not show any sign of a reaction to those people’s words, not even when they insult her family. However, she does react when Dontos’ life is forfeit because of Joff´s decision to put an unnecessary end to it. In the same way, she wants to save Margaery Tyrell from a psycho, Joffrey, by honestly telling her what he is really like. She always shows her reactions in front of Sandor, as he is the only one she can face in equal terms. He is the only one she tells her true opinions about himself. He is the only one in whose presence she takes off her courtesy armor, either because he does not let her hide behind it, or because of other reasons.

Edit: same reason than before (thanks Milady)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't be surprised if if, apart from Bronze Yohn, the other Lords Declarant are eating out of Petyr's hand in WoW. He already has Lyn Corbray in his pocket...

He also told Sansa every plan for winning over every other bro... Apart from our Bronzed and beautiful Yohn. He also said that Yohn wouldn't be an issue alone, but if Yohn reveals Petyr's treachery, then I think some of the Lords, except the one's he's been paying, wake up and oppose him.

I dunno. LF's smart - it might no go like that at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5. - Songs and Video clips

They are plenty of songs about this theme. And each author has a different vision. I made a special selection, choosing songs that have something special: the main idea, the song importance and the music, the singer. The last songs are the most powerful visually.

Beauty and Beast

Tale as old as time,

True as it can be.

Barely even friends,

Then somebody bends,

Unexpectedly.

Just a little change,

Small, to say the least.

Both a little scared,

Neither one prepared,

Beauty and the Beast.

Ever just the same,

Ever a surprise,

Ever as before,

And ever just as sure

As the sun will rise.

Whoa, whoa, oh, whoa-oh.

Ever just the same,

Ever a surprise,

Ever as before,

Ever just as sure

As the sun will rise.

Oh, oh, oh.

Tale as old as time,

Tune as old as song,

Bittersweet and strange.

Finding you can change,

Learning you were wrong.

Certain as the sun,

(Certain as the sun)

Rising in the east,

Tale as old as time,

Song as old as rhyme,

Beauty and the Beast.

Tale as old as time,

Song as old as rhyme,

Beauty and the Beast.

This is the first complete song lyrics that I have added here. Not only because it obtained an Oscar award (that gives a certain entitlement) but also, and mostly, because it reflects Sansa. Her illusions through tales and songs (she loves the romantic ones, while Bran loves the horror ones).

The song also shows her interactions with Sandor. They are barely friends (the night of the Hand Tourney was the first spark to their friendship). And there begins a little change that will be followed by other little changes (like his cover up at Joffrey´s Tourney, his advice). They are both scared of the other: Sansa is always a little scared around Sandor. During their conversation on the roof of Maegor’s Holdfast, with Sandor using his sword in such a foolish way, he proved that he was also scared of her, and there is no need to remind you of the scariest moment for both: the night of the Battle of the Blackwater.

Neither of them was prepared for their feelings (Sansa needed the long distance to begin to notice them). For both, their feelings had been a surprise. And these feelings are bittersweet. In their case, bitterness takes the biggest part, but deep inside all the sweet, candid feelings are even stronger than that bitterness, in my opinion.

Beauty and The Beast

Why have I put David Bowie here? Just because he is a chameleon with a prolific career, and has been imitated all around the world; and because he has also worked with Auric. The song can lead to the interpretation that both beauty and the beast live inside each person.

Anyway, the song can also be related to Sansa and her courtesy shield. She is suffering and, to protect herself, she smiles. She knows she can be killed, but smiles nonetheless. I don´t believe that there is nothing that can corrupt her, but her main values will not be corrupted by all her experiences and the vile people that she is encountering.

Also, the song demonstrates the dichotomy that exists inside Sansa. It may seem that she does not do anything, but she manages to survive and escape from King’s Landing. She is learning to lie and to use others, but she has goodness inside her. She seems to have contributed unwittingly to her father´s downfall, but there was nothing she could have done to stop it.

Finally, the song also can show the two sides of the coin: Sansa and Arya. Each one with her own part of Beauty and Beast inside, both hiding, without a name, both without a wolf, both being daughters of a giant of Braavos, both being seemingly corrupted, without morals or honor, but both keeping their attachment to their dreams (to Nymeria and Sandor, respectively) and both keeping something that shows their wishes (Needle and Sandor’s cloak). If both are reunited, I am sure they will not fight each other. They will fight their enemies with the knowledge they are acquiring.

The Ark

Beauty is the Beast

This famous Swedish rock band got a different idea about the tale of the Beauty and the Beast. First, they express through their song all the ugliness of the world, that men are killers. But the most terrible thing is the creation of the idea of beauty, discriminating people who don’t fit into that idea. Not taking the time to get to know what ugly people are really like, deep inside, where true beauty as well as ugliness really reside.

Also, this song attacks vanity, those people that only value beauty. Cersei is a good example of vanity. She uses her own beauty (what men see as beauty in her) for her purposes. But she can’t stand the outward ugliness of others. She does not really look inside. And when she does, it is with scorn. Sansa has learned that external beauty can help her achieve her goals, but she likes to look inside and find other people’s souls.

Bella y Bestia

Porta is a Spanish rap singer. He composed this song in response to the reaction caused by some of his other songs (the Spanish Woman Institute sent him a protest letter due to this).

This song shows us a different idea of Beauty and the Beast. Here the outside is not ugly, it is the inside. This one has to do with abuse.

I can see Sansa and Joffrey’s relationship here: when Joffrey ordered Sansa’s beatings; how she had to cover up all her bruises, all her sadness, thus proving stronger than the beast, than Joffrey.

Also there is a part of her marriage with Tyrion that is reflected here. Sansa knew that he slept with whores, but she did not know that his mistress was her chambermaid. That is an example of disrespect towards Sansa.

I would do anything for love

Meat Loaf is a hard rock US band that reached nº1 in the lists in 1993 with this song. This video clip, directed by Michael Bay, is aesthetically a mixture of Beauty and the Beast and Bram Stoker’s Dracula.

The song can be related to the moment in which Sandor tells Sansa that he will never lie to her. He will never forget the way she felt in King’s Landing, or the way she felt during the night of the Blackwater, as he proves in his conversation with Arya before she leaves him to die. Sandor is not a talkative man, and even less during the time he spends with Arya, but he talks to her about her sister twice.

This lyric can show the feelings more from the Beast’s perspective, from Sandor’s perspective. And more when it is associated with fire and ice, and his memories of her.

Sandor will never lie to Sansa, and he proved he can do anything for her (saving her from the Mob, covering her up from others, like Joffrey and Boros), but he will not force her (not rape her, not force her to leave with him). Maybe one of his main regrets is forcing her to sing. Perhaps this can only be related to his insistence not to let her remain ignorant of what is happening around her, not to let her stay in fairyland. Or maybe he will not hit her, never. He will not hurt her.

Sandor knows that Sansa can save him from himself. He needs her, that is why he searches for her that infamous night. She is his lifeline.

There is one and only promise that he can keep: that he will keep her safe. And some days he prays for Arya’s silence, for his own silence, and not only on the road, I believe he does it also at the Quiet Isle. There he is healing his soul, that soul that so many times he shows off not having.

He is alone because he thinks he does not deserve to be with her. And if he were with her, he would never leave her (that is the way the song ends). He left her when he thought Sansa did not want him. If he knew that she wanted him near her, then he would be with her and would never leave her, as becomes the loyal person that Sandor is.

Gérard Lenorman (music:

)

La Belle et La Bête

It is true that I was born

Of a selfish mating:

A black widow and a toad.

You, your mother has fair hair,

And your father showers you with gifts

Other world, other ways.

The Beauty and the Beast,

A fairy tale that amused you

When you read your tales.

I, the Beast, I cried.

I, the Beast, I suffered.

You, the Beauty, you laughed.

You laughed.

I had a bear´s walks and a monkey´s virtue,

I wasn´t a man, I almost wasn´t a man.

The whole county chased the terrible animal

But you held out your hand to me.

The Beauty and the Beast,

We had meet when I more bled,

The more I die, the more I lived.

I, the Beast, I dreamed.

I, the Beast, I hoped.

And you, the Beauty, you calmed,

You took care of, you loved.

The witche´s spells broke up

Because of love,

Come to my carriage,

I´m taking you to the Great King’s Court Ball

Oh! I am young and handsome.

The Beauty and the Beast,

Must be forgotten,

Dead and buried under the past dust.

I, the Beast, I am here (bis)

You, the Beauty, you are here.

Yes, you, the Beauty, you are here.

We are here,

Come, come.

Gerard Lenorman (Le Petit Prince) is a French ballad singer that features this song composed by Jean Michael Jarre. I couldn´t find the lyrics in English, so I translated them for all of you to understand. I like this song for different reasons, one of them is Jean Michael Jarre, as I have loved him for so long. Also, in the video, we can see a performance of a Barry Collins ballet piece. The complete Beauty and the Beast tale.

The Beast’s feelings are powerful, fluctuating from the deepest hole to the highest mountain. The image of the Beast crying and suffering just brings The Hound to my mind. And the Beauty is reflected as the healer, a caretaker, and a lover.

Also, I love the idea of burying the concepts of Beauty and the Beast, just to become normal people again. As if the two concepts must meet, as if their paths should cross again somewhere and they could find a place to live.

Limon y Sal

Julieta Venegas is a famous Mexican singer-songwriter who won two Grammy awards in 2007 with the album this song is in.

What I like most about this video is the soundless oneiric, dreamlike movie tribute. It is not based on Beauty and the Beast, it is rather about lycanthropy, but it works the other way around, because the wolf turns into a man when there is a full moon, and the rest of the time he is a wolf, a beast. And when he turns human, she gets scared.

The song is a declaration of love. She loves him the way he is, just the way he is, nothing more is needed, and she only needs him to be near her, even if he lacks romanticism. There is a special mention to meeting the eyes of one’s lover. I want to end with it as a possible future for Sansa. To have the love that she wants, not the one that others choose for her. Not to stay unmarried, not to be married to someone she doesn’t love. It does not matter who he is (Tyrion, Sandor, Harry, Aegon or another); I just hope that, at last, she finds happiness.

Edit: same reason than before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bgona, such thorough and interesting work! :) If only all discussions could be filled with music links, my blood pressure on this board might be considerably lower ;) Anyways, I really enjoyed reading this, and listening to your selections. Songs and singing are recurrent motifs in Sansa's arc and have real significance as we all know to her relationship with Sandor and how it develops. It's significant that in Sansa's other relationships with Tyrion and LF, the former requests for no music to be played around his wife, and the latter's only use for songs is associated with treachery and deceit. More later...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder what we might find if we went back a bit farther to Brel or further to Poulenc, Debussy, or Faure. There is a song by Schubert called "Der Zwerg" (the dwarf) that would fit Tyrion pretty well, tho' Sansa not so much. Somewhat melodramatic poetry, with very dramatic music that incorporates the "fate" motif from Beethoven's fifth symphony.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brash!!!! Say you, say me, say it for always that Sandor is the only one that ask her to sing :leer: .

Old-Growth of course it would be perfect to find more classic music. And there is more about the Psyche and Cupid tale. But I couldn´t find more about The Beauty and The Beast. If you know someone I will love to hear it!!

Anyway here is

(thanks Milady for the link). It is a pity that we haven´t assigned a classic music to each ASOIAF character or, to keep it smaller, related to Sansa, it will be a nice thing to do.

A detail about the

it that is based on a Camille Saint-Saënscomposition:
.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bgona: I posted suggestions for two songs for Sansa in one of those songs for ASoIaF characters threads but I haven't figured out how to do cut and paste on my cellphone (and my desktop computer is ill), and I have been too lazy to retype the texts :-). One song was Dover Beach (setting Samuel Barber) and the other was "To Gratiana, dancing and singing", setting by Denis Browne, a promising young English composer who was killed in WWI. I included about a third of the text in each case. It's past my bedtime but I will track down the posts tomorrow, and hope someone will be kind enough to copy and paste my posts into this thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right now I am also at my phone, if nobody do it when I am able. I would. And I promise I will post a comment!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bgona, such thorough and interesting work! :) If only all discussions could be filled with music links, my blood pressure on this board might be considerably lower ;) Anyways, I really enjoyed reading this, and listening to your selections. Songs and singing are recurrent motifs in Sansa's arc and have real significance as we all know to her relationship with Sandor and how it develops. It's significant that in Sansa's other relationships with Tyrion and LF, the former requests for no music to be played around his wife, and the latter's only use for songs is associated with treachery and deceit. More later...

Good call, Brash! Sandor is the only (non-birth-family) man in Sansa's life who appreciates what seems to be a considerable talent of hers.

I recall when we are introduced to Sansa, through Arya's POV, one of the things Arya envies about Sansa is her musical talent - she sings and plays the high harp and the bells. I want to see this developed more in canon; unfortunately Sansa seems to have been deprived of music (which must have been one of the things she longed for) when with the Lannisters and later with Petyr. Her brief friendship with the Tyrells, when Lady Leonette is described as giving harp lessons seems to be the only exception.

Bgona, I really appreciate your analysis of the music in B&B! It's original and it's very fitting for a character who is known in canon to be musically talented.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Old-Growth I found it here.

Anyway we can hear the song of Samuel Barber

and the one of Denis Browne To Gratiana Dancing and Singing.

The second it is as a possible Queen Sansa, but still fixing really well to Sansa.

The first one at the begining remains me to Sansa thoughts about Winterfell. But it really takes out the sadness that is getting inside Sansa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had never realised how many songs are related to Beauty and the Beast, this is a great job bgona ^_^! I've just learned that Lenorman sang about Beauty and the Beast (he's a familiar figure even though I wasn't born when he was at the top). It's a powerful song, really. I think it would fit Sandor's feelings rather well ^_^.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

KRBD thanks!!

I had forgot about Sansa playing high harp!

Mahaut It is indeed a powerful song. I hope that I translated it correctly. Lenorman is a famous singer (you have him, we, Spaniards, have Julio Iglesias :eek: ).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He also told Sansa every plan for winning over every other bro... Apart from our Bronzed and beautiful Yohn. He also said that Yohn wouldn't be an issue alone, but if Yohn reveals Petyr's treachery, then I think some of the Lords, except the one's he's been paying, wake up and oppose him.

I dunno. LF's smart - it might no go like that at all.

I think, that the Vale Lords would serve Littlefinger for money, but if they found out his true nature, they would not feel guilty about betraying him.

However if they were victims of blackmail (or if LF had a hostage like I think the Lynderley's and one other family) then they might be forced to remain loyal.

However the issue would be Nestor Royce: as Sansa notices in AFFC, Nestor Royce's ownership of the Gates of the Moon is contingent upon LF signature (rather than Roberts) so if LF falls, then they lose a very valuable place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×