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White Luck Warrior XI: 11 Hells down, 100 to Go


Spring Bass

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I'm quite sure it was only a fraction of the Dunyain that were "polluted". And I suppose it would be easy for Moe to do the same thing over and over again,

I believe that for dream magic one has to have known the person they are sending the dream to so Moe couldn't pollute all of the Dunyain even if he wanted to, just most of them.

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I believe that for dream magic one has to have known the person they are sending the dream to so Moe couldn't pollute all of the Dunyain even if he wanted to, just most of them.

But I don't think that we have any idea how many Dunyain were at Ishual. And while I have no honest guess as to how many of them there were, I have to think they kept their numbers relatively small because they couldn't risk need to forage further and all that stuff. Their isolation would be eventually threatened by a growing population. Which is to say that I think it's possible that, on some level, Moe knew everyone there.

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No. but I'm pretty we (I) all agree that it's just some Imperial functionary telling Kosoter to get his ass to Marrow or whatever that town's name is.

At this point, I agree.

It sure was fun to puzzle over, but I now just think that the point was that Kellhus, via the New Empire, contacted the Skin Eaters. That's all we really know.

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Francis, Marwyn,

there's a re-read going on on the Second Apocalypse forum as well. Feel free to join in.

And if only part of them suicided, then wouldnt it have been really easy for Moenghus to kill the rest by 'polluting' them with dreams as well?

Reaching out to people in their dreams requires knowing them. After thirty years, there can't be that many around of the Dunyain who were alive at the time Moe was still among them.

Wouldn't Kellhus know that at least some Nonmen are aligned with the Consult after his tussle with Mekeretrig and the Sranc he was leading?¨

Ishterebinth is the last Nonman city around, supposedly populated by Intact Nonmen. The ranging Nonmen can be discarded as erratic. Also, if it was Mekeritrig (and I see no reason to doubt that), he's well known as a renegade.

I still haven't read WLW though (I know, I know, crucify me) so I may be off about that. I just bought the book, but I decided to do a re-read of the series first because I don't feel like I absorbed enough of it, especially after reading these threads and not knowing half of what you guys are referencing (I need to read The False Sun again as well, kinda skimmed it the first time).

There's also a spoiler chapter Bakker released on Second Apocalypse; in time Pat will get it too, in a longer version, if I understand it correctly.

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I think it's clear Kellhus knows something is up with Isterberinth. Surely he plied Cleric or some other Nonman as much as possible.

Seems telling he sent a Scylvendi, Seswatha, and the king of the one outpost that survived the last Apocalypse.

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I thought it was Kayûtas.

I think that it could well have been, but I don't know if we have enough to conclude this or if it matters.

I think that the Traveler was described as having a gravelly officer's voice or something and then Kayutas was described in a similar way at some other point.

Sci - I don't know about all of that, but here's another question: Did Kellhus have anything to do w/ Cleric's departure from Ishterebinth, or did he simply find him after he'd left?

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Seems telling he sent a Scylvendi, Seswatha, and the king of the one outpost that survived the last Apocalypse.
Telling of what? That he wants the nonmen to remember? That he wants this woman to remind them of Seswatha along with this random young human to remind them of...some place many of them have never been to? I guess. I think that there's less depth there than you might think.

I'm still curious about the massive labyrinth underneath Ishual. Is that destroyed as well? If it's Kellhus and Kellhus wanted it destroyed, that would make sense. If it's not, I don't see why it wouldn't survive.

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Telling of what? That he wants the nonmen to remember? That he wants this woman to remind them of Seswatha along with this random young human to remind them of...some place many of them have never been to? I guess. I think that there's less depth there than you might think.

I'm still curious about the massive labyrinth underneath Ishual. Is that destroyed as well? If it's Kellhus and Kellhus wanted it destroyed, that would make sense. If it's not, I don't see why it wouldn't survive.

I tend to agree with the first point. I am not saying that there's no chance that Kellhus didn't intend something with the three that he sent. I just don't think the Scylvendi aspect or the Seswatha aspect is significant. We've already seen what happens with Akka-as-Seswatha with a Nonman erratic. He loves and thus tries to kill.

On the second point, I'm still so curious about what happened to Ishual. I think it's most likely Kellhus, but I don't think we can entirely rule out The Consult. We know that The Consult has been very interested in finding out about The Dunyain for the past 20 years, and Ishual isn't so far away.

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Here’s the main clue as to the desctruction of Ishüal, at the end of the excerpt:

“Come,” Mimara called, standing, brushing grit from her ragged trousers. The sickle of her belly caught an errant lance of sunlight... The old Wizard momentarily forgot how to breathe.

A chevron of geese soared above, barking southward.

Killer geese, disturbed in their bloody feast. What Akka and Mim will find are the defiled bodies of the Dûnyain, dripping blood and black semen from multiple beak-sized orifices.

Basically, a new faction is introduced in the Unholy Consult. The stakes!

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@HE: Ha! I just reread that part two days ago.

Minus some issues with the Mim and Ordeal arcs, I'd say that I enjoy those more when I reread. These are incredible strong narratives, sadly anchored by the mediocre to bad Esmi-Maitha arc.

I just don't think the Scylvendi aspect or the Seswatha aspect is significant. We've already seen what happens with Akka-as-Seswatha with a Nonman erratic. He loves and thus tries to kill.

If the Nonmen they meet are Erratic, then they are fucked. If the Nonmen are Intact, I think it will matter. I'm willing to say the Scylendi thing doesn't pan out, but I'm surprised people think Seswatha in Serwa won't matter at all.

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If the Nonmen they meet are Erratic, then they are fucked. If the Nonmen are Intact, I think it will matter. I'm willing to say the Scylendi thing doesn't pan out, but I'm surprised people think Seswatha in Serwa won't matter at all.

Could be.

I do very much wonder about Ishterebinth (sp). We've actually been shown more of the Ark than we have of a Nonman mansion with actual Nonmen in it.

I'm also curious about getting confirmation on whether the Intact are simply those that have yet to go erratic but eventually will, or if there's something more to it and those that have gone erratic have done so for some reason that the Intact have not.

I also wonder if any of the Nonmen we will hopefully see on screen in the next book will say anything about Cleric. Why he left, what they thought of him, etc...

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