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White Luck Warrior XI: 11 Hells down, 100 to Go


Spring Bass

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Presumably, after the fall of Tryse and certainly no later than the fall of Sauglish.

Then as far as I remember after the Dunyain would have established themselves in Ishual, the Consult chase Seswatha South to Eamnor, North-East to Aorsi, South to Meorn (sp?)... then flees West across the Three-Seas from Cil-Aujas to Kyranaes (sp?) where the assorted survivors defeat the No-God at Mangedda (sp?).

So yeah, I figure they'd [the Dunyain would] believe the Consult had won and tailor their actions, their principles, accordingly.

The one wrench is that the Dunyain [seem to have] repudiated the Gods themselves [before this] - if they had no evidence of the Gods aside from the belief in others, then they might have simply assumed that the worldborn were delusional, that the Gods never existed at all.

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That makes sense, I had wondered how the beginnings of a cult of superbeings could have denied the existence of magic.

One other thing that has bugged me about the no-magic Dunyain, how do they preserve their specimen for facial expressions? Kellhus recalls the room where he is to study the exposed muscles of varying emotions. How do they do that without some sort of magic?

I noticed we are approaching thread twelve and I have been wracking my brain for an appropriate sub-title; something along the lines of 12 inches = Pendulous or something, but that's not quite right... :lol:

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I noticed the Cish death by Chorae thing last night rereading a bit of TTT. Madness, did you say you saw some passage where they do turn to salt?

It would actually be interesting if the Cish, of all people, end up saved by recollecting the Solitary God. It would also make Meppa incredibly important if we saw salvation through his POV.

Of course, the knowledge that just about every POV character is damned will make these the darkest epic fantasy books I can recall.

[The only exception would be Mim I suspect.]

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Madness, did you say you saw some passage where they do turn to salt?

Nope - the other way: I found an instance where a Spire getting hit with a Chorae is described as "a flash, white ringed with a nacre of black. One their number, Rimon, plummeted to ground, where he shattered salt" (TTT, p431).

Previously, I had thought that only the Cishaurim were described with the nacre of black thing - but no, I've only found the three instances of Cishaurim being hit by Chorae (Cnaiur hits Moenghus, Proyas and Kellhus each hit one of the Incandati) and none of them explicitly described as salting as above... all other sorcerers hit with Chorae are.

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But their bodies do fall when hit by Chorae, so they do die. This does sort of make sense though, if the Chorae has reactions to magic as well as the Mark.

The paradox-magic causes magic users to die and it causes those with the Mark to salt. IIRC the stronger the Mark the more susceptible a mage is to having their skin salt.

But that wouldn't explain why Few who never practice sorcery can handle Chorae, as I assume a Cish is indistinguishable from an Unmarked member of the Few.

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What should the next thread be named. It ought to be an THE UNHOLY CONSULT thread, what with the preview chapter half and all being out. Or Unholy Consult T-1: Countdown to Apocalypse, or something similarly awesome...

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This is why I always bring up the Christian Rapture - aside from that it's an obvious metaphor within the context of my upbringing: that the bodies of the faithful disappear and they are one with God in Heaven. [Nicely folded clothes, if some parables are to be believe.] Maybe just their cassocks fall. Maybe this is why Moenghus form "sags" after Cnaiur hits him with the Chorae.

Also, in reading the TTT Glossary the other day - Inri Sejenus is supposed to have ascended... to the Nail of Heaven.

Lol, and as I was going to reread some of the False Sun for a new thread name:

Concerning Titirga & the vital difference:

And if what Cet’ingira said was true, the most powerful, period. No living Quya had the purity of his Recitations. Even his Stain was different, somehow muted, as if he could cut the Inward without scarring it. Even now, simply regarding him, his distinction literally glared from his image, a strange, sideways rinsing of the Stain.

The vital difference. The threat.

My emphasis. More powerful than Quya?!

But The Unholy Consult I - Debaucheries, Desecrations, Shrieks, & Blood!

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It would actually be interesting if the Cish, of all people, end up saved by recollecting the Solitary God. It would also make Meppa incredibly important if we saw salvation through his POV.

Of course, the knowledge that just about every POV character is damned will make these the darkest epic fantasy books I can recall.

I got the impression, I'm not sure how, that the Fanim are closer to "right" than the Inrithi, who are closer than the old, polytheistic religion.

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I agree with Jurble that the next thread should clearly indicate we'll be discussing TUC spoilers from the excerpt and Bakker's reading.

Madness - what exactly is the Aporos doing when it kills a mage? Forcing the soul to leave the body? The Mark is magic staining the mage's being, I suspect it is a flaw in the world's Perfection that allows the Aporos to attack the body.

Cish don't salt because they have no Mark, but Chorae do kill them. So magic does change a person - perhaps it changes their very soul and what Chorae attack is the imperfect recollection, the hamfisted ham fisted pseudo-divinity?

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Lol @ HE.

Yeah, Trisk the weird thing to me is that this middle guy kinda gets it half and half. Then there are disconcerting parallels - like Inri Sejenus is supposedly cast in the very proportion of God... except then the Third Sight is supposed to see Souls as looking more or less holy as they are more or less proportionate of the Solitary God. And the Dunyain apparently all look real proportion[al]ate to the Cishaurim because that proportionate apparently reflects the cognitive traits the Dunyain breed for, as Moenghus shines in the Third Sight... :o

Except that Sejenus is only "born" tenish years after the Dunyain find Ishual and certainly many years before they'd have breed for those enhanced cognitive traits that the Cishaurim would find so proportionate...

Too many proportionates... little Nerdanel there.

Edit: Or the Aporos/Chorae as a magical artifact of that sorcery is some kind of sorcerous hotline to God. If we view Sorcery as a spectrum whereas one side is damned (Sorcerers) and the other holy (Cishaurim) with some kind of perfect balance in Shaman. Perhaps, Aporos lies somewhere between Psuhke and Daimos o.O? [Just sucks Cishaurim directly back to the Solitary God?]

Just guesses of our conversations, obv.

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Or the Aporos/Chorae as a magical artifact of that sorcery is some kind of sorcerous hotline to God.

Oh, I've thought that for awhile now. Paradox relates to both Chorae and having a soul, and Mimara uses a Chorae to banish Hell. The relation between paradox and the underpinnings of reality may also be why the Aporos was banned.

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perhaps it changes their very soul and what Chorae attack is the imperfect recollection, the hamfisted ham fisted pseudo-divinity?

Interesting. Perhaps there will be a pivotal moment where Kellhus is hit by a Chorae, but it falls to the ground and does nothing, because he has become a self-moving soul / recollects the God's voice perfectly :cool4:

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