Sci-2 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Toir'inskiri had it done :).Meh, fuck that guy. ;-)eta:On a more serious note, HE mentioned the possibility of the Nail being the remnant of a portal (wormhole?) the Inchies used to get to Earwa.Should we make a new thread for TUC, has as there is some spoilerly stuff there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Meh, fuck that guy. ;-)eta:On a more serious note, HE mentioned the possibility of the Nail being the remnant of a portal (wormhole?) the Inchies used to get to Earwa.Should we make a new thread for TUC, has as there is some spoilerly stuff there.See... and that's my problem. So much discussion was had before I ever even discovered these books, that I probably missed all talk of the Nail of Heaven. I just always assumed it was the moon in Earwa. Are there passages that describe it as basically a really bright star? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Hm... it's always hinted at being a bright pole star in the books, Rhom. Also... most of those who partook in discussions on Three-Seas then here, probably are worse than the worst Eratics. We've been over the same theories, with different "unique" revelations, that covered the same ground endlessly - or for about threeish years.However, in this case, that sort of discussion only would have happened here on Westeros shortly after The False Sun was released on TPB. Major Unholy Consult spoilers, for anyone who hasn't read it.Partake in the Second Apocalypse. Help it grow. Keep the man writing.EDIT: There might even be some False Sun specific threads here on Westeros but I'm not sure.Lol @ Sci. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Wait, why are we spoilering the False Sun now? It came out like a decade ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Spoilers for The False SunSome refer to the Nail of Heaven as The Newborn. What if it really is like some kind of wormhole that the Ichies came out of and is so-named because it didn't always exist? That would mean that the Nail of "Heaven" was actually just an Inchie method of transportation just like the Tusk is an Inchie invention.**EAMDWait... What... I don't even...Nail... wormhole... Tusk... Inchie...Shit. I really need to go back and reread these books. Apparently all I remember must be Cnaiur raping Conphas... :leaving:No seriously, I've only read about the first two paragraphs of The False Sun (had it open on my iPhone in bed and couldn't stand reading on it), is all of this in there? Is my reading comprehension that poor for the five main books?!!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Nah, the wormhole is a theory brought forth by the knowledge that the Nail, among the Nonmen, is called the Newborn.It gives a sense as to how long lived the Nonmen are, as well as how it makes sense that their existences are mythic compared to humanity's own.False Sun is really some top writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibandar Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I'm unreasonably excited to hear that the book is at 180,000 words at this point. I was not expecting that.And it's also that it is written from start to finish already. Even with the caveat that publishers are expected to want to cut chapters, that is terrific news. We're not there yet, but that sounds like Scott is very much on the home stretch.One last thing, when the professor addressed Bakker, specifically when it was just them two talking and typically around the time of leaving, be called him Anasurimbor. Why?I would venture a somewhat supported guess that Bakker has always identified with Kellhus. You can see this in a lot of things. One small thing is on the old Three Seas forum, when I asked about Kellhus' height, he said "I checked my passport and it says 6'6, so, 6'6".Shame there were only a dozen people there, that must be a bit disappointing. But I guess, what can you expect, on a weekday afternoon on a college ground, unless you're a celebrity name?Wait, so, Serwa and Moe realize that Ishterebinth has fallen to the Consult? That's what the implication of Serwa and Moe's comments seem to be.I'm not sure what the chapter summary says to establish that they think Ishterebinth is now ruled by the Consult. The fact that Moenghus thinks they will die soon, could be something Moenghus derived from the fact that they may be seen as an offering from Kellhus to the Nonmen, not just hostages. But the quote could also be a further suggestion that Ishterebinth has been turned, as the chapter in WLW with the fraudulent Nonman Embassy to Kellhus already implies.I remain confused about what Moe and Serwa know or think they know or feel about Sorweel. Clearly they know something is up with him, and even through her trickery, they cannot read him. Yet they tell him that he is special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I remain confused about what Moe and Serwa know or think they know or feel about Sorweel. Clearly they know something is up with him, and even through her trickery, they cannot read him. Yet they tell him that he is special.One of my favorite parts of the Sorweel POV. Are Moe and Serwa playing along with Sorweel's delusional hope that he can't be read, or have they genuinely found dissonance in their own reactions to him ->They know he should hate them, but when Serwa uses her Dunyain senses to read him she still feels there should be loyalty. It reminds me of the brain damage that results in people thinking a loved one is an imposter when seen, but not over the phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 I think they've found dissonance in his "reactions" to them. Clearly, what Serwa and Moenghus are able to anticipate from Sorweel keeps defying their expectations. Sorweel's all like "I fucking hate you," yet Serwa reads clear love and good intentions all the way from his face to his soul ;).Like your perspective, Mith, wish you'd make it over to Second Apocalypse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Nah, the wormhole is a theory brought forth by the knowledge that the Nail, among the Nonmen, is called the Newborn."theory" in the loosest, douchiest, most textless sense possible, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 "theory" in the loosest, douchiest, most textless sense possible, of course.?That's a weird bug to have up the ass -> Someone buy you an expensive present using cappie funds? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 It's literally a 'newborn', that giant space-baby thing from 2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of Godsgrace Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 It's literally a 'newborn', that giant space-baby thing from 2001.Nope, it is Newborn from Alien:Resurrection :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Bakker on Paradox and Earwa:The thing is that paradoxes are real in Earwa – because souls are real – and so provide a handy test for soulless imposters like skin-spies. We can only hope in our world.eta:I'd also recommend his post, The Posthuman as Evolution 3.0. I think it was Jurble who noted that the Inchies are essentially a species that has undergone the Semantic Apocalypse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Well, I think what Bakker was positing at that point was that paradoxes can't be comprehended computationally, and so a soul is necessary.eta: There's also the stuff with the Aporos and Chorae and God in TJE... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sckma Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Is there a thread somewhere with all the different theories about The Second Apocalypse? I can't pretend to understand half of what's going on, and coming so late to this thread makes it harder to follow! The books themselves aren't the easiest to follow as well.I read somewhere that TUC is going to reveal a lot of information about Earwa and how it works? That I cannot wait to see, if only to get some understanding of it all!One thing that confuses me is Mimara's constant reference to a Chorae as a tear of God.... what does that mean? How does that change anything, and does it mean the Chorae can be used by other sorcerers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Well, I think what Bakker was positing at that point was that paradoxes can't be comprehended computationally, and so a soul is necessary.eta: There's also the stuff with the Aporos and Chorae and God in TJE...except that's wrong. But that's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Kal - To clarify, I meant Bakker was drawing off Penrose's reasoning as to why consciousness can't be solely computational.eta: I'm also not trying to suggest Bakker agrees with Penrose.IIRC -> Aporetics is sorcery that turns on paradoxes and contradictions in language ("This sentence is false.") Originally Tears of God are called that b/c sorcerers are seen as blasphemous, like Trisk notes, but I do think it's interesting that Mim ends up (apparently) finding God via an Aporetic artifact given Penrose+Hammeroff's ideas of quantum consciousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Well, it is a really facile statement but the easiest way to show it as wrong is to demonstrate that infinite recursive loops are perfectly computationally valid (which is what most paradoxes are) and there is a difference between reading said paradox and evaluating it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 sckma, welcome to this thread. Ask away, and we’ll do our best to answer. We haven’t grasped all, but I this board (and secondapocalypse) certainly has made me a lot smarter about what’s happening.In chapter IV of Darkness, Akka himself refers to the Chorae as Tears of God. (He’s explaining to Esmi how significant it is that Maitha has given six Chorae to the Spires, information that Inrau has secured.).It’s just a standard way to refer to Chorae. (Not among the Mandate, of course. They call them Trinkets, because they must make them small.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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