Rereading Tyrion III (ACOK)

[Lyanna Stark]

LS - Got a chill when I read this. It reminds me of Craster and the Others. :eek:

Yes, it rather does, doesn't it? Nordic folklore is often really disturbing. ;)

Ruining her hands is an interesting point because since she is selling her body those are part of her assets. Presumably the more desirably wealthy clients can get all the scullion sex they want at home anyway off the kitchen maid till the girl becomes pregnant. Shae is only able to earn good money off her body for as long as she looks like fresh meat, if you pardon my bluntness here and bleak is the most optimistic word I can think of for a future that consists of servicing clients for a clipped copper a go.

Indeed. And we see that one of the main reasons Tyrion even cares about Shae is that she is pretty and attractive. Every time he sees her he goes on about her looks, and in this chapter it's spelled out straight in that he shuts her up in order to shag her. He thinks that he doesn't want her words, only her body and the comfort that gives him. Where he also tells himself he is welcome and wanted. But as we know, those last two are just an illusion. They make Tyrion feel better, but they are lies he tells himself.

Just a bit later, he says he cannot marry her and she seems to think this is because of Cersei, but Tyrion has at that point just reflected that loving her shames him. Tyrion is not avoiding marriage with Shae because of Cersei, he is avoiding marriage with her because the relationship with her shames him, because he feels shame about "loving her". Hence: Tyrion tells himself two lies here in a short span of time.

1st: That he is welcome and wanted with Shae

2nd: That Cersei is the one preventing him marrying Shae (although it seems he is not convinced about this himself, but he lets the conversation pan out in this fashion. In the end Shae doesn't seem convinced either.)

Tyrion's suggestion strikes right at her chances of future earnings and in the same conversation it becomes clear that he isn't going to marry her, or make his concubine at court either. So the situation is particularly stressful for Shae just when it was looking fairly reasonable with good prospects.

I agree. Throughout the chapter Tyrion is extremely callous towards Shae. From when he threatens the singer who entertains her, to shutting her up, to being ashamed about their relationship, then throwing a cup of wine at the wall so hard it explodes and Shae has to take cover from the shards, and then of course up to the ultimate ending: the slap.

Also, Shae puts her finger on something we as readers have spotted several times over: What is Tywin going to do if Tyrion disobeys? Spank him? Try to make him marry Lollys?

Of course, Tywin's hold over Tyrion is psychological, and consists of several different parts, not the least that Tyrion is trying to in his own way become Tywin 2.0. Still, Shae is right: Tyrion is an adult, and Tywin cannot exert the hold on him he could when Tyrion was 13. Of course, Tyrion doesn't like hearing this truth, so he slaps Shae.

As others also have noted, this seems to be a turning point in that Shae realises here that Tyrion is only a "temporary" step when he confesses to once marrying a whore and that it was a no go. She will need to make other arrangements at some point, and as Tyrion has identified Tywin as the one holding the power and money over Tyrion, why not go to the source? It makes logical sense, for Shae.

[Lummel]

The shame of the love reminded me of his reaction to feeling guilty towards Jon Snow in Tyrion II (I think we've spotted that somewhere else too, but that is the incident that sticks n my mind) - that odd disavowal of his own emotion, or at least emotions other than pride and anger.

[Elba the Intoner]

I just want to say that this has been a fascinating discussion of Shae. I really missed the nuances of her character the first time around and just really disliked her a lot. I didn't even pick up on any hints about her possibly being abused by her father on first read. I saw people mention that on these boards and thought, "really"? Now I see it and understand a bit more where she was coming from and how damaged she really was. I still don't like her, but less so now than before. Also, really good catch with her being fertile, and possibly even wanting children of her own.

Also, my view on Varys has really done a turn around. It's sort of like the opposite of what is happening with my view of Shae. Varys' story of his cutting really evokes sympathy and I took him at his word about not liking magic. I had thought Varys a more sympathetic character than Shae in many ways, and I liked that he seemed to be helping the "good guys", Ned while in prison not wanting him executed, and Tyrion here for ex. But it seems that there is a lot more to Varys and no one is really sure what he is up to, where his sympathies truly lie, etc. It is interesting that Shae recognizes Varys in disguise right away. It makes sense because Shae has been keeping her real story, her origins, a secret as well and creating a whole new persona, and Varys seems to be doing the same thing, but using many different disguises and personas to present himself to others. No wonder Shae picks up on it so easily.

[Lykos]

Lummel, no I don´t regard you as swine, actually many posters created elaborate sockets, I think my pearls, I chanced upon, would fit nicely.

Just a small example, your tarnished silver reminded me of the niello brooches mentioned in Dance (Jon and Davos), which are deliberately tarnished to create a beautiful piece of art. (Yes I´m one of the few, who actually liked Martin´s use of the word niello.)

A bigger thing and more relevant in this reread is your mentioning of Westeros ravaged by the four dwarves, which I´m sure that Martin took from the Sörla þáttr.

"One day, Freyja saw that the Dwarves were making a beautiful collar and she offered them both gold and silver in exchange for it. But, the Dwarves would only sell it to her in exchange for one night each with her. Freyja agreed and after four nights with the Dwarves, she returned with the beautiful collar."

This act of prostitution was probably included by the christian priests, who compiled the tales, in order to discredit Freyja and show her as a false goddess.

I´ve noticed that necklaces / chains are a major theme of Clash, starting with the prologue with Maester Cressen´s chain, Melisandre´s ruby, Theon´s golden chain, Tyrion replacing the Hand´s badge with a chain of hands as well as the big iron trap of his, Grandmaester Pycelle´s chain made of many golden links (that show him as aa economics expert ?!) and finally Dany´s vision of the beautiful woman with the absence of Brísingamen.

To be continued.

[Lummel]

Casting pearls before swine is just another old saying Lykos :)

That's interesting what you say about chains because it is such a double sided image. The chain of office as something honourable, but also a chain as something that weighs you down, traps you or enslaves you.

Elba - I don't mean to say that Shae is nice, she's obviously a deeply unpleasant person but equally we get the sense that things happened to her that made her that way. Perhaps she is female counterpoint to Bronn, she'll do most things if the price is right. After ADWD I get the sense that this is for Tyrion a case of 'there go I but for the grace of being born a Lannister'.

Varys I think has been transformed by just those few pages at the very end of ADWD. Until he revealed his Aegonist sympathies all we had to go on was what he said and what he did. I certainly used to assume that he was trying to serve the realm as in preserve peace, but the ADWD epilogue combined with Arya III AGOT mean that we can now start looking for what he does as helping to bring Aegon closer to the iron throne! Of course that has the effect of turning Tyrion from player to pawn (well maybe a knight or a bishop, but a piece all the same).

[A wilding]

Incidentally, this chapter is the first time that Shae has seen Tyrion not in control.

Previously she has always got the confident alpha male. Here he is angry and worried that Storms End has fallen, concerned about the situation in Kings Landing, powerless to act against Cersei and Tywin, and so forth. She is suddenly seeing a whole new side to him and, as said, it is not a pretty one.

[Blisscraft]

Incidentally, this chapter is the first time that Shae has seen Tyrion not in control.

Previously she has always got the confident alpha male. Here he is angry and worried that Storms End has fallen, concerned about the situation in Kings Landing, powerless to act against Cersei and Tywin, and so forth. She is suddenly seeing a whole new side to him and, as said, it is not a pretty one.

It's funny you should bring this up ("a stranger here myself") because this is Tyrion's shadow Shae finally sees. This "bad," shadow side is Tyrion's stranger. We have seen it peep out in the previous chapter when he was kicking Joffrey. However, we wanted to kick that little-so-and-so along with him, so we, as readers, enjoyed Tyrion's violence upon the young monarch and let it go.

In the beginning of this chapter, after the visit with Launcel, Tyrion lingers in the Sept and lights two candles: one to the Warrior for Jaime and one to the Stranger for himself. The stranger is a powerful image, not only in this series, but for all of us since we began to gather in groups. The stranger is the mysterious other and the other's strangeness is suspect. We don't know if the stranger is a friend or foe. We don't know if the stranger is going to bring change for the better or the worse. Consequently, to a collective or group, the stranger may be seen as evil. The appearance of the stranger can cause a "split" between what is perceived as "good" and what is perceived as "bad." The appearance of stranger(s) can create a projection of "badness" or evil on to another(s). The stranger can act as a sword or battleaxe that splits society apart, creating sides and consequently, chaos.

For an individual, like Tyrion, Jung refers to the shadow, (or the stranger, as it may appear in dreams), as a part of the personality that has been repressed by the ego. It's that little piece of Tyrion that he has pushed way back, so that he can be seen as reasonable, logical, and intellectual. A creature not ruled by passion, but by rationality. This is clear in the Jon chapter where Tyrion refers to the mind needing "books like a sword needs a whet stone." Tyrion has chosen to fight his battles with his head and not his arms or his heart. This is a "split." However, as Homer noted in The Odyssey, "all strangers and beggars* are from Zeus and a gift. . ." The gift is an illumination, symbolized by Tyrion lighting the candle in the Sept to the Stranger. Tyrion must embrace the stranger within in order to realize his true potential. But, because he has suppressed it for so long, it's coming out in an ugly way.

Literature and art is filled with with examples of the Stranger as visiting god(s). Often the stranger's destiny is to replace the ruling power with a new, more enlightened one. There is the story of Philemon and Baucis who welcome gods who appear as strangers and are rewarded. Also, in the Bible, there are examples of God as a stranger.

*Note that Varys comes to the Manse as a Begging Brother and a Stranger before Tyrion really lets his ugly show.

[Elba the Intoner]

As children, one of the first lessons we are taught is to be wary of strangers and we are told don't talk to strangers. It creates a strong image from a very young age that strangers are dangerous.

[butterbumps!]

I'm kind of processing what I want to say about Tyrion-Shae here, so I'm not ready to dive in yet. In the meantime:

As children, one of the first lessons we are taught is to be wary of strangers and we are told don't talk to strangers. It creates a strong image from a very young age that strangers are dangerous.

I'm not sure if this will have cross-cultural significance, but I remember in elementary school we were given these "fun" instructional booklets on the "do's and don'ts" of dealing with strangers. They were of course incredibly over-the-top and hilarious, as one can imagine, but the "stranger" in question was always portrayed as a weird darkened shadow figure without features, despite the fact that all the other figures were more realistically drawn. I'm not really sure I have much of a point, except that this is the image in my mind of the "the Stranger" (who seemed to moonlight as a candy distributer, given how much of it he enticed these unsuspecting kids with), and your comment compelled me to mention this. Sorry for this useless tangent.

[Lummel]

It's funny you should bring this up ("a stranger here myself") because this is Tyrion's shadow Shae finally sees. This "bad," shadow side is Tyrion's stranger. We have seen it peep out in the previous chapter when he was kicking Joffrey. However, we wanted to kick that little-so-and-so along with him, so we, as readers, enjoyed Tyrion's violence upon the young monarch and let it go...

I like this because it takes us back to where we were when we were discussing Daenerys and her needing to heal or combine the split between the Dragon and Mother sides of her personality.

In another place I had talked about Tyrion needing to become his father in order to take his place. Here we've talked about the sweet and sour sides of his personality and that confirms my notion that ASOIAF is a Bildungsroman. We are seeing a process of education and the formation of the personality in reaction to life and experience.

ETA is Lancel a slightly cruel GRRM joke on Lancelot? :)

[Winter's Knight]

ETA is Lancel a slightly cruel GRRM joke on Lancelot? :)

Jaime is a sort of defective Lancelot and Lancel is a poor copy of Jaime-it's like Martin split the character into two and gave the part that would ride in and save the queen from the flames that her treason earned her, to neither.

[Lummel]

Lancelot was always defective :laugh:

Always the greatest knight with the most prowess in battle, for ever having the affair with Guinevere King Arthur's wife. That's why he wasn't allowed to go on the Grail Quest. (well he goes but gets roughed up by the Holy Spirit who practises muscular Christianity on him until he goes home).

[Elba the Intoner]

I'm kind of processing what I want to say about Tyrion-Shae here, so I'm not ready to dive in yet. In the meantime:

I'm not sure if this will have cross-cultural significance, but I remember in elementary school we were given these "fun" instructional booklets on the "do's and don'ts" of dealing with strangers. They were of course incredibly over-the-top and hilarious, as one can imagine, but the "stranger" in question was always portrayed as a weird darkened shadow figure without features, despite the fact that all the other figures were more realistically drawn. I'm not really sure I have much of a point, except that this is the image in my mind of the "the Stranger" (who seemed to moonlight as a candy distributer, given how much of it he enticed these unsuspecting kids with), and your comment compelled me to mention this. Sorry for this useless tangent.

Ha ha, I never saw one of those booklets but I can easily imagine how they would have portrayed the "stranger". For me as a young child, the personification of the "dangerous stranger" was the child catcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. Man oh man, that guy was creepy!!

[Blisscraft]

Lancelot was always defective :laugh:

Always the greatest knight with the most prowess in battle, for ever having the affair with Guinevere King Arthur's wife. That's why he wasn't allowed to go on the Grail Quest. (well he goes but gets roughed up by the Holy Spirit who practises muscular Christianity on him until he goes home).

Love muscular Christianity. Hairy chest with broad shoulders stuff. :rofl:

[Ragnorak]

Tyrion XI (ACOK)

Overview

Tyrion is sending Shagga to the Kingswood to harass Stannis as he makes his way to Kings Landing. The Stone Crows are the last of his clansmen to be dispatched on this same mission. The scene is an oddly emotional parting with Tyrion expressing an almost parental concern for Shagga. Shagga, despite being told how to fight a guerilla war by a rank amateur, accepts the advice respectfully. Tyrion threatens to feed his body to the goats if he dies stupidly which is a bit of a full circle from their first meeting with the roast kid.

Tyrion reflects on the assets he has left to defend Kings Landing and on their limits. Ironically, the limits primarily center around the loyalty ceiling inherent in buying people. He sees the makeshift town that has cropped up along the outer wall and orders Bronn to take a hundred men and burn it to the ground. If the smallfolk resist Bronn is to kill them, but he prefers no bloodshed recognizing they are not the enemy despite thinking of him as a monkey demon. He also directs Bronn to stop his sellswords from engaging in rape. Upon his return to the Keep he is confronted with a band of ship captains upset that their vessels have been seized. He promises them compensation when the war is over and nothing more. The delay in dealing with them makes him late for the ceremony to swear in the two new members of the Kingsguard.

Ser Balon Swann and Osmund Kettleblack are the two new members of the Kingsguard. Tyrion feels Swann is a good choice both personally and politically but not so with Osmund. We also learn that the new High Septon is his choice and that Varys has arranged for Shae to be Lolly's handmaiden. After instructing the new High Septon to publicly condemn Stannis for embracing the Red God he retuens to the Topwer of the Hand.

After reviewing a letter from Balon Greyjoy offering an alliance he admits Hallyne the pyrocmancer. He has come in well over the estimated wildfire count and this troubles Tyrion. It takes him a while to pry the information that his spells have been more effective but Tyrion still suspects a fraud and threatens to have him beheaded if any of the wildfire is deficient. We also get the interesting tidbit about dragons and magic. Jacelyn Bywater has returned and informs Tyrion that Tommen is well followed by Varys who brings news of a group of merchants called the Antler Men planning to open the gates during the siege and go over to Stannis. Tyrion signs the order for their arrsts sarcastically lamenting that he'll never get his demon helm.

Observations

The previous chapter was Dany in the HoTU. Aside from the mention of the connection between dragons and magic we have some threes here.

Tyrion only wished he could as easily make city walls twice as tall and three times as thick.

The gate was open. Inside, three great trebuchets stood side by side in the market square, peering over the battlements like three huge birds. Their throwing arms were made from the trunks of old oaks, and banded with iron to keep them from splitting. The gold cloaks had named them the Three Whores, because they’d be giving Lord Stannis such a lusty welcome. Or so we hope.

“Choose two or three dresses, no more,” he commanded her. “Good wool, no silk, no samite, and no fur.

Tyrion read the letter three times and set it aside.

Another cache of Lord Rossart’s was found, more than three hundred jars. Under the Dragonpit!

Of knights and squires and men-at-arms, Tyrion had no more than three hundred.

We've seen the term "pets" come up before with Tyrion.

“Shagga will listen to the Halfman’s pets,”

The crabs made me think of the dinner with Mormont.

Those who had coin came to the riverfront each morning and each evening, in hopes of bringing home an eel or a pot of red crabs

We had the Christian symbol of "King Bread" and now fish, though it is rotten and arrives in the form of an attack. The last High Septon was Cersei's and she was the subject of the woman's attack that led to the riot. Now the High Septon is Tyrion's and it is aimed at him.

A fish came sailing out of the crowd, slimy and rotten. It landed at his feet and flew to pieces.

This is very like Jon later reflecting on Ned's lessons.

Yet even those… a watchman was not truly a soldier, Lord Tywin Lannister had been fond of saying. Of knights and squires and men-at-arms, Tyrion had no more than three hundred. Soon enough, he must test the truth of another of his father’s sayings: One man on a wall was worth ten beneath it.

Analysis

This is primarily a chapter about the last bits of preparation before the impending attack from Stannis. The overwhelming impression is that despite Tyrion having done a great deal it just won't be enough. The limits he sees on his assets are all tied to Lannister gold.

“They’ll kill for that knighthood, but don’t ever think they’ll die for it.”

The things he is most confident in are all the assets the Lannisters have acquired by "screwing people over." The two thousand watchmen that can be most relied upon came from Robert not Cersei. Swann is the KG replacement he has faith in but he comes from his father's fear of Lannister wrath rather than true loyalty. The two truly loyal assets he has are the clansmen he just sent away and Bywater who he also sent away though he returns this chapter.

As he is reflecting on the fact that he must rely upon the walls to protect him his thoughts go to Winterfell and its walls.

He remembered Winterfell as he had last seen it. Not as grotesquely huge as Harrenhal, nor as solid and impregnable to look at as Storm’s End, yet there had been a great strength in those stones, a sense that within those walls a man might feel safe. The news of the castle’s fall had come as a wrenching shock. “The gods give with one hand and take with the other,” he muttered under his breath when Varys told him. They had given the Starks Harrenhal and taken Winterfell, a dismal exchange.

No doubt he should be rejoicing. Robb Stark would have to turn north now. If he could not defend his own home and hearth, he was no sort of king at all. It meant reprieve for the west, for House Lannister, and yet…

Tyrion had only the vaguest memory of Theon Greyjoy from his time with the Starks. A callow youth, always smiling, skilled with a bow; it was hard to imagine him as Lord of Winterfell. The Lord of Winterfell would always be a Stark.

He remembered their godswood; the tall sentinels armored in their grey-green needles, the great oaks, the hawthorn and ash and soldier pines, and at the center the heart tree standing like some pale giant frozen in time. He could almost smell the place, earthy and brooding, the smell of centuries, and he remembered how dark the wood had been even by day. That wood was Winterfell. It was the north. I never felt so out of place as I did when I walked there, so much an unwelcome intruder. He wondered if the Greyjoys would feel it too. The castle might well be theirs, but never that godswood. Not in a year, or ten, or fifty.

Tyrion Lannister walked his horse slowly toward the Mud Gate. Winterfell is nothing to you, he reminded himself. Be glad the place has fallen, and look to your own walls.

This is quite unlike Masha Heddle hanging at the Inn of the Crossroads. He finds no pleasure in the fall of Winterfell even with a direct Lannister benefit. "The Lord of Winterfell would always be a Stark" also runs counter to Tywin's Rains of Castamere philosophy and agenda. He also sees that godswood in rather martial terms as it is armored and the giant that is the heart tree is surrounded by soldiers. It also speaks to the Stark legacy as ancient and powerful. The next chapter is Theon's and we will get our first taste of Stark loyalty even when they're down and our first insight into just how much Winterfell is still the Starks. Winterfell was also the maze Tyrion was lost in from his very first sentence. It is his own feelings that he can't place so it would seem that maze is constructed of emotional walls.

The Starks had for more reason to trust Theon than gold can buy and yet still the walls of Winterfell fell to treachery. That speaks to Tyrion's situation here. He knows there are traitors among the gold cloaks and the chapter even ends with an unexpected conspiracy of traitors-- men who believe in money yet seek out Stannis over the Lannisters.

These are rich men. Traders, merchants, craftsmen. Why should they conspire against us?”

In spite of his Theon reflections Tyrion still thinks Swann, essentially a Theon surrogate, is a good choice. He also wholly entrusts Tommen's fate and safety to Bywater. Bywater is not only one of Robert's worthwhile two thousand gold cloaks as opposed to a Lannister man, but he won his honor as a knight was won fighting the Greyjoys alongside Ned Stark. A rather curious twist of fate. I happen to love Bywater's observations on Tommen and his response to Tyrion about his security arrangements.

“You have made suitable arrangements for him, should the battle be lost?”

“My men have their instructions.”

“Which are?”

“You commanded me to tell no one, my lord.”

That made him smile.

“Prince Tommen is hale and happy, my lord. He has adopted a fawn some of my men brought home from a hunt. He had one once before, he says, but Joffrey skinned her for a jerkin. He asks about his mother sometimes, and often begins letters to the Princess Myrcella, though he never seems to finish any. His brother, however, he does not seem to miss at all.”

[Lummel]

This is one of those chapters were you see odd things round the edges and peering out mid sentence: Tyrion's mercenaries are drunken rapists, people with trade connections allegedly prefer Stannis to Tywin, people are being dispossessed and driven about by Tyrion's men. I think I get a sense now of why they call him a twisted little monkey demon!

That detail of Bywater not liking to wait is interesting too. We saw with the ironworkers that Tyrion quite liked to keep people waiting as a tactic - does this mean that there was a frank exchange of views on the subject between the two men?

What is this with the black diamonds that Tyrion says Shae's eyes look like? Bit of an unfortunate comparison - cold, hard diamonds, black like lumps of coal!

"Did honour die with our fathers" asks Varys...who was Varys' father? It is funny to have honour and broken honour closing a chapter that has been concerned with how people can be bought - and since we have had a letter from Balon in the chapter perhaps we can ask Tyrion if he paid the iron price for his people or a gold one?

[Lyanna Stark]

This is a nice, fast paced chapter to read, and Tyrion is almost at his humorous and witty pinnacle here.

However, we also have some more dubious things lurking about, like Lummel mentioned above.

Still, we also have some old themes going strong in the middle of the slight weirdness. For instance, Tyrion Lannister, the heir of Tywin:

Yet even those...a watchman was not truly a soldier, Lord Tywin Lannister was fond of saying. Of knights and squires and men-at-arms, Tyrion had no more than three hundred. Soon enough, he must test the truth of another of his father's sayings: One man on a wall is worth ten beneath it.

Tyrion's combat strategy know how comes directly from Tywin, and Tywins method's are applied. It strongly identifies Tyrion as a Lannister, too. He is a Lannister, applying Lannister tactics and Lannister strategy for a Lannister cause. This is further enhanced after the eerie section on Winterfell when he convinces himself to be pleased and to focus on his own walls, his own Lannister cause.

Another theme that stood out is the Enemy Within. Often, this seems to be an unlikely enemy, too. Tyrion considers Theon and thinks him unlikely, and then of course we have the recent news of Storms End having fallen and Cortnay Penrose's mysterious death. Then later on, we have Hallyne talk of Dragons, and we know who will report to Varys about Danys' dragons: another enemy within, Jorah Mormont. Varys reports on traitors, and the Antler men will be arrested, another group of enemies within. Then we have Ser Osmund Kettleblack. Cersei thinks he is hers, Tyrion that Kettleblack is his, but in reality he belongs to The Enemy of all Enemies Within: Littlefinger.

Some other observations:

Tyrion's conversation with Hallyne is almost slapstick and reminds me of Terry Pratchett.

Tommen hates his brother, but loves his mother and sister.

The Winterfell section is strange, I think. It feels almost like a dream sequence in the middle of a chapter very much concerned with reality. Tyrion rejects dragon magic from the Pyromancer, but seems to almost unconsciously embrace the magic nature of Winterfell, the Starks and the North. This section will also be interesting to bring up later when Tyrion agrees to marry Sansa for her claim to Winterfell, and a keep of his own. Yet here he remarks Winterfell is a Stark place and that he did not feel welcome there.

Also, will Tyrion perhaps at some point get the helm with the demon horns? He complains here that he's not going to get one, and you should be careful what you wish for?

[Lummel]

Ah, so Tommen is a kind of anti-Tyrion? It does look as though there is a similar dynamic in the next generation of Lannister children as there was in Tyrion's generation.

It occurred to me that Tyrion thinks back to Winterfell a few times but never to Casterly Rock. He mentions Casterly Rock twice I think in the whole time he is at Kings Landing (once to Tywin and once to Sansa) but never seems to think about it. It is as though Winterfell has captured his imagination - or to steal Ragnorak's idea that he is still trapped there in the maze of walls and buildings.

There's a bit of Fathers and Children as a theme emerging here. Varys father represents honour (allegedly), Tyrion's father advise to be tested. There is an overlap with the Stark children POVs when they think back on what The Ned said or did. But this is a theme that runs across a few POVs - the need to come to terms with the Fathers' legacy.

[Blisscraft]

Just one thing - The comment from Varys about "honor" dying with their fathers suggests that Tyrion's father is dead, too. Tyrion corrects him, but still . . . That Varys and all of his little secrets. Maybe he's knows a secret from his little birds?

More later. . . :unsure:

[Winterfellian]

Great analysis Lummer!

Taking up Tyrion's advice from Tywin:

One man at a wall was worth ten beneath it

This isn't the only time we hear a similar affirmation. In fact Theon recalled as much during his short lived period as prince of Winterfell. To me, though the line in itself is sound advice it also stands in great contrast to another northern line (I can't recall if it was Ned's or the Old Bear, sorry) regarding defending walls:

A wall is only as strong as the men defending it

The first line, though it speaks about worth is more in terms of how much difference the numbers of men both in and outside a wall can make in a fight; the second line is about the quality of the men behind said wall. It brings to contrast much of the different mentalities between the South and the North at this point of the story. Tyrion is clearly following his father's, but like Bronn tells him:

They'll (Bronn's sellswords) will kill for that knighood, but don't ever think they'll die for it.

I think is safe to say that we can easily rephrase the line with: They'll will kill for that knighood, but don't ever think they'll die for you. This sellswords will fight for Tyrion and House Lannister as long as it is safe to fight for them and no more. They might be worth in terms of number in contrast to the men storming the wall, but in the end they follow their own self interest and so their value is less than it will appear at first glance.

While Tyrion employs this sellswords and even tries to keep them happy for practical issues, I think deep down he keeps wishing for the second approach (I wonder if this has something to do with the sentimental way he seems to remember Winterfell). After all, whenever he has needed or given protection to somebody else (Tommen, Sansa) he employs either Bywater or his clansmen and not Bronn and his ilk. In this chapter he even thought how he felt naked when the last of the clansmen left.