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Arya's Destiny?


Lady Wylla Manderly

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Shameless plug :D

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/98719-arya-ahai/

But seriously, Arya is so far out of the loop there is no telling what comes next for her. Last we hear she is being sent to Izembaro for further training. Not only do we not know who/what/where Izembaro is, we don't even know if Arya will make it to him/her/there. She seems to be good at getting lost along the way to where ever she is headed. I think the key is whether she scoops up Needle on her way out the door or not. If she does, then she is headed to Westeros. If she doesn't, then who knows :dunno: ?

Since this has to be defined more precisely in German, the German translation makes it clear that Izembaro is a person, probably male, and can be reached walking by foot from the HoBaW; so Arya should make it without being hit by a serpent boat. There are a few points where the German translation of ADWD is a bit spoilerish; I take it they asked Martin.

Edited for spelling

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Since this has to be defined more precisely in German, the German translation makes it clear that Izembaro is a person, probably male, and can be reached walking by foot from the HoBaW; so Arya should make it without beeing hit by a serpent boat. There are a few points where the German translation of ADWD is a bit spoilerish; I take it they asked Martin.

That is really interesting! Hmm....

Arya is one of those "game changers" floating around looking for a place to land. When she hits the main plotline she'll hit it hard, but in the meantime she's doing that thing where she builds her power, hones her skills, and waits for her chance. To do what? No idea. But I bet it's gonna be big.

As for Gendry, actually I'd be happy if the single females in this book (especially the 11 year old ones) manage to NOT have "who will they end up with" be the ultimate goal of their story. Arya has other things to do.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Wow, I can't believe I actually read all 37 pages of this. Apologies in advance for length, I think about Arya a lot!



I think that Arya will end up alive and actually happy at the end of the books. Mainly I think this because though one of Arya's defining features currently is her desire for revenge, I think to go down this path would make for a boring a too expected a path. I like the idea others have mentioned earlier in the thread about Sansa actually treading the dark path and Arya being a red herring.



I really believe that Arya's time with the hound is supposed to be a life lesson in what all consuming vengeance will do to a person and that Arya will find love, peace and forgiveness - though everyone on her prayer list may well be doomed anyway, just not by her hand.



One of the key components in Arya achieving forgiveness is experiencing affection and love again. She could experience this with her remaining family members, but at the moment Jon and Sansa are too caught up in their respective storylines to be able to provide this kind of environment for Arya and I just don't see there being a period or rest in Westeros before the shit hits the fan.



Again as others have mentioned, Arya's current period in the Hobaw is a respite from the horror she has experienced where she can be safe and fed, and is learning useful skills, not just for killing but for life in general. The thing she is lacking at the HoBaW is love.



I have my doubts about this theory as it does seem a bit fan servicey but I think there is a really good chance Arya will end up in Dany's court. I may be deceived by the relative peace that Missandei and the other children in Dany's service have been experiencing of late at the shit may also be about to hit the fan in Meereen. The reason I think it has some possibility of occurring is that should an assassin need to reach Dany, a female, Westerosi child would be a good bet at someone able to earn Dany's trust relatively easily. Arya's schooling in languages may even point to the possibility of her assassinating Missandei and taking her place at Dany's side.



Something that Whitering said though is that the ultimate test of Arya's allegiance to the FM will be if she is sent on a mission to kill an innocent - I can well imagine her coming to the conclusion that Dany (or Missandei or any of the other kids) is not deserving of death and therefore will not fulfill the contract but will come clean about her identity and find some semblance of 'home' among Dany's entourage. Plus if Dany is supposed to be a serious contender for the throne in Westeros it will be good to have a Stark on her side as well as a Lannister (presuming Tyrion also reaches her).



Further to this, what other posters have said about Arya's wolf's namesake Nymeria leading a people from Essos to Westeros and seeing as how the wolf names may be slightly prophetic it would also fit that Arya would play a part in leading Dany's to Westeros to start a new 'kingdom'.



Even if the Dany stuff is wrong and she comes about it in another way, I strongly believe that Arya will not become the vengeful person the Hound was/is. Given how strongly Arya holds on to her Stark identity there will also be an inevitable reveal of who she is, Needle and/or Nymeria will probably play a large part in this but either way I don't think she will return to Westeros under the guise of anyone else or anonymously. She's been at other people's mercy in the Riverlands for so long she needs to go back with agency based on her Stark identity.




Seeing as there has been a lot of discussion about Arya's love life I will also add my thoughts to that debate, though I doubt we will ever see Arya with a love life unless Martin does a 20 years later epilogue.



I do not think Arya will end up marrying a guy or actually being with a man at all. Someone pointed out earlier in the thread that the amount of sexual violence Arya has witnessed may well have warped her view of heterosexual sex in a way that she may not be able to get over.



I don't buy the idea that she will have to either marry or join a nunnery cus thats what happened in the old days - for one she is the younger sister of a powerful house without a strong tradition (seemingly) or meek wives, two, what living relative with any power over her would force her to marry (and in fact who does have power over her really? As Varys says power is an illusion and Arya can see through them!), three, the north favours the strong and if Arya can defend herself then who is to say she needs the protection of a husband? Finally there is the textual foreshadowing of Arya specifically telling Ned that it is 'not her' to marry and produce children.



The Lilith parallels that others have drawn are interesting and while she might be able to find a husband in the modern day who doesn't insist of obedience and submission, will she find anyone like that in Westeros?



I don't really believe in Arya/Gendry as I think all the affection was from his side (note the annoyance that Arya isn't jealous when he is approached by a prostitute). In fact this passage may be telling:



“And come the morning, when the night wolf left her and she opened her eyes, she saw a tallow candle burning where no candle had been the night before, its uncertain flame swaying back and forth like a whore at the Happy Port. She had never seen anything so beautiful.”


What is the 'she had never seen anything so beautiful' is a duel reference to the candle and the women at Happy Port.


Actually further to the Lilith theme and the not submitting to men, when the KM tells her that not many women are FM because women give life, the fact that she chooses to continue her training and kind of has become an FM with the adoption of a new face, could this indicate that Arya is rejecting the traditional role of women in society and taking up one traditionally occupied by men?
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Wow, I can't believe I actually read all 37 pages of this. Apologies in advance for length, I think about Arya a lot!

I think that Arya will end up alive and actually happy at the end of the books. Mainly I think this because though one of Arya's defining features currently is her desire for revenge, I think to go down this path would make for a boring a too expected a path. I like the idea others have mentioned earlier in the thread about Sansa actually treading the dark path and Arya being a red herring.

snip

Actually further to the Lilith theme and the not submitting to men, when the KM tells her that not many women are FM because women give life, the fact that she chooses to continue her training and kind of has become an FM with the adoption of a new face, could this indicate that Arya is rejecting the traditional role of women in society and taking up one traditionally occupied by men?

I hope you are right, but also, the Mormont chicks have already done this, so it's not like she is breaking new ground on that front.

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Wow, I can't believe I actually read all 37 pages of this. Apologies in advance for length, I think about Arya a lot!

I think that Arya will end up alive and actually happy at the end of the books. Mainly I think this because though one of Arya's defining features currently is her desire for revenge, I think to go down this path would make for a boring a too expected a path. I like the idea others have mentioned earlier in the thread about Sansa actually treading the dark path and Arya being a red herring.

I really believe that Arya's time with the hound is supposed to be a life lesson in what all consuming vengeance will do to a person and that Arya will find love, peace and forgiveness - though everyone on her prayer list may well be doomed anyway, just not by her hand.

One of the key components in Arya achieving forgiveness is experiencing affection and love again. She could experience this with her remaining family members, but at the moment Jon and Sansa are too caught up in their respective storylines to be able to provide this kind of environment for Arya and I just don't see there being a period or rest in Westeros before the shit hits the fan.

Again as others have mentioned, Arya's current period in the Hobaw is a respite from the horror she has experienced where she can be safe and fed, and is learning useful skills, not just for killing but for life in general. The thing she is lacking at the HoBaW is love.

I have my doubts about this theory as it does seem a bit fan servicey but I think there is a really good chance Arya will end up in Dany's court. I may be deceived by the relative peace that Missandei and the other children in Dany's service have been experiencing of late at the shit may also be about to hit the fan in Meereen. The reason I think it has some possibility of occurring is that should an assassin need to reach Dany, a female, Westerosi child would be a good bet at someone able to earn Dany's trust relatively easily. Arya's schooling in languages may even point to the possibility of her assassinating Missandei and taking her place at Dany's side.

Something that Whitering said though is that the ultimate test of Arya's allegiance to the FM will be if she is sent on a mission to kill an innocent - I can well imagine her coming to the conclusion that Dany (or Missandei or any of the other kids) is not deserving of death and therefore will not fulfill the contract but will come clean about her identity and find some semblance of 'home' among Dany's entourage. Plus if Dany is supposed to be a serious contender for the throne in Westeros it will be good to have a Stark on her side as well as a Lannister (presuming Tyrion also reaches her).

Further to this, what other posters have said about Arya's wolf's namesake Nymeria leading a people from Essos to Westeros and seeing as how the wolf names may be slightly prophetic it would also fit that Arya would play a part in leading Dany's to Westeros to start a new 'kingdom'.

Even if the Dany stuff is wrong and she comes about it in another way, I strongly believe that Arya will not become the vengeful person the Hound was/is. Given how strongly Arya holds on to her Stark identity there will also be an inevitable reveal of who she is, Needle and/or Nymeria will probably play a large part in this but either way I don't think she will return to Westeros under the guise of anyone else or anonymously. She's been at other people's mercy in the Riverlands for so long she needs to go back with agency based on her Stark identity.

Seeing as there has been a lot of discussion about Arya's love life I will also add my thoughts to that debate, though I doubt we will ever see Arya with a love life unless Martin does a 20 years later epilogue.

I do not think Arya will end up marrying a guy or actually being with a man at all. Someone pointed out earlier in the thread that the amount of sexual violence Arya has witnessed may well have warped her view of heterosexual sex in a way that she may not be able to get over.

I don't buy the idea that she will have to either marry or join a nunnery cus thats what happened in the old days - for one she is the younger sister of a powerful house without a strong tradition (seemingly) or meek wives, two, what living relative with any power over her would force her to marry (and in fact who does have power over her really? As Varys says power is an illusion and Arya can see through them!), three, the north favours the strong and if Arya can defend herself then who is to say she needs the protection of a husband? Finally there is the textual foreshadowing of Arya specifically telling Ned that it is 'not her' to marry and produce children.

The Lilith parallels that others have drawn are interesting and while she might be able to find a husband in the modern day who doesn't insist of obedience and submission, will she find anyone like that in Westeros?

I don't really believe in Arya/Gendry as I think all the affection was from his side (note the annoyance that Arya isn't jealous when he is approached by a prostitute). In fact this passage may be telling:

“And come the morning, when the night wolf left her and she opened her eyes, she saw a tallow candle burning where no candle had been the night before, its uncertain flame swaying back and forth like a whore at the Happy Port. She had never seen anything so beautiful.”

What is the 'she had never seen anything so beautiful' is a duel reference to the candle and the women at Happy Port.

Actually further to the Lilith theme and the not submitting to men, when the KM tells her that not many women are FM because women give life, the fact that she chooses to continue her training and kind of has become an FM with the adoption of a new face, could this indicate that Arya is rejecting the traditional role of women in society and taking up one traditionally occupied by men?

Just to add into that, I noticed that while Arya has obviously abandoned her identity many times, Sansa has also changed her "name" through the books. I see three identities for her so far;

Sansa Stark of Winterfell: a summer child, with idealistic views of knighthood and marriage and all these the Southern beliefs etc.

Sansa Stark of King's Landing: a cautious girl, grief stricken, abused, beginning to understand how naïve she was.

Alayne Stone of the Vale: a girl who is the opposite of Sansa Stark of winterfell, a girl beginning to become a clued up woman. brave and loyal

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  • 8 months later...

I'm quite sure Arya will find her way to Westeros, as will Dany. Otherwise- why writing their POVs?

I remember GRRM mentioning he was inspired by the child-soldiers while creating Arya's arc. He said that for them war is often a "game" ;).

After reading through this whole thread I've decided that my original thought on Arya's fate is correct. Think about all the things she's pulled off so far. Currently she is and 11 year-old girl who's already been trained by an expert swordsman, contributed to the capture of a castle for her brother's men, learned to forage for her life in the middle of a warzone, successfully robbed one of the most cruel and cunning men in Westeros, watched how an outlaw band carries out guerilla warfare, been able to effectively intervene in a 3 man on 1 man fatal bar brawl, bartered her way onto a cargo ship, be able to conduct surveillance activities in one of the busiest port cities on the planet, read people faces like they were her own, detect lies by the sounds of people's voices, become a first-rate linguist and translator, change her own face, use poisons correctly to her own ends, and come up with creative ways to assassinate people without being detected. That's a hell of a resume.

That's a bit impropable, and "too badass" for me :/

And Arya leading a great army? She wasn't really trained in warfare, and FM work alone. Besides, doesn't that sound, a bit, I don't know, mary sue? (I always mention her having many sue-characteristics, maybe i'm a bit obsessed by arya sue...)

As to Arya becoming the queen from Cersei's prophecy, well, she might become Lyanna-like with her face-changing skills, except

1) I don't think she is meant to rule- too much responsibility, and again- she was not trained for it (i will toss the book out of the window if Arya ends up on the Iron Throne, which will be anyway destroyed )

2) the queen from the prophecy will take everything Cersei hold dear- Arya wasn't for sure involved in the Purple Wedding or in Jaime's change

evita mgfs, on 20 Nov 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I have not dropped into Arya’s destiny for a while, even though I had some further comments to make on her behalf, one having to do with this neato web site I found concerning Celtic Tree astrology. In several posts here and in the water motif thread, we discussed Arya’s connection to the oak tree, and added to this is her eating the acorn paste when she was half starving, nasty as that might be! Ugh! Anyways, the site had an amazingly interesting take on the symbology associated with the oak tree – and I even believe that Arya was a “summer child”, and the months of June and July are associated with summertime, so I wanted to share my findings. Even though ALL of the information applies to Arya, I underlined pertinent information. So here is what the oak tree means for those who are born between June 10 and July 7:

<>Oak - The Stabilizer
Those born under the Celtic tree astrology sign of the Oak have a special gift of strength. They are protective people and often become a champion for those who do not have a voice. In other words, the Oak is the crusader and the spokesperson for the underdog. Nurturing, generous and helpful, you are a gentle giant among the Celtic zodiac signs. You exude an easy confidence and naturally assume everything will work out to a positive outcome. You have a deep respect for history and ancestry, and many people with this sign become teachers. You love to impart your knowledge of the past to others. Oak signs have a need for structure, and will often go to great lengths to gain the feeling of control in their lives. Healthy Oak signs live long, full, happy lives and enjoy large family settings and are likely to be involved with large social/community networks. Oak signs pair off well with the Ash and Reed, and are known to harmoniously join with Ivy signs too.

http://www.whats-your-sign.com/celtic-tree-astrology.html

  • Arya is strong of will and strong of body, evidenced in her skill at survival, finally arriving safely in Braavos after enduring harrowing experiences.
  • Arya is fiercely protective of others, as she demonstrates over and over again: Arya chases her beloved Nymeria away in order to save her life; Arya risks her own life by saving Jaqen H’ghar, Rorge, and Biter from the flames; Arya even tries to save her father’s life by telling him about overhearing the conversation when she became lost in the well after visiting the stone dragons at King’s Landing.
  • Arya always champions the “underdog” – as illustrated when she even cares for the Hound, nursing him through his fever, hand-feeding him water and such. Even after what the Hound had done to Michah, Arya still found it in her heart to champion the much misunderstood Sandor Clegane. Ultimately, she could not even grant him a “good death” – and I do not think it was out of spite that she did not grant his dying wish. No! I think Arya would not have been able to take his life because she had come to care for him in a weird way that even she and he did not understand.
  • We see Arya as nurturing, generous and helpful while a servant and cupbearer at Harrenhal and also as an acolyte in the House of B&W, serving Him of Many Faces. Arya assists dying souls take a drink from the cup filled with the poison waters, where she helps to lead their troubled souls on their final journey to the nightlands.
  • Arya is confident, as we see in her natural ability to become a water dancer – which, IMO, takes a certain amount of confidence.
  • Arya tends to be optimistic, and she finds some comfort in hard work and servitude.
  • Arya has a deep respect for history and ancestry, in her own as well as in the stories the kindly man tells her of the history of Braavos and the order of the Faceless Men who serve the god Him of Many Faces.
  • Arya becomes a teacher when she instructs the Waif on the language of Westeros; she also becomes the student, learning all that she can about new languages.
  • Arya is more content in a structured environment, as the kindly man provides for her. She thrives on keeping busy and making herself useful, attending to a rigorous daily schedule that is imperative to self-discipline in education: she is studying and learning languages, a profession – tending the dead, the nature of poisons, the value of sensory details, theatrical illusion and glamor, espionage and dissembling, and the list goes on!
  • Arya likes to be in control, as we see when she learns the identity of the person beating her in the HoB&W during her blindness. Arya trumps the kindly man when she identifies him as the culprit, much to his chagrin.
  • I hope that this Celtic Tree Astrology is on point and that Arya will live a long and healthy life; if nothing else, this Celtic insight offers “hope” for Arya’s destiny.
  • Arya prospers in a large social network, as evidenced before Braavos and during her stay there. She has no problem making friends, and she garners much knowledge from those she meets. She gets along with the sailors, the whores, the courtesans, the fishmongers, the mummers, Taganero, Casso King of Seals, Sam Tarley, Cossomo the Conjurer, Brusco, Talea, Brea, Umma, Quill, Gyleno, Red Roggo, Little Narbo, and more. Furthermore, she readily adjusts to her role as student and apprentice in the HoB&W under the tutelage of the kindly man and waif. In a way, the kindly man fills the role of a surrogate father of sorts, just as the waif fills the role of a sister. But from all who are part of Arya’s circle, she acts like a sponge and absorbs as much information as possible from each of her sources.

Yes, I think Arya fits the role of a Celtic Oak !

Yes, but when we remember she was once compared to Lyanna (could change), lyanna wasn't an ideal of a queen- for example, she tossed a cup of wine over her brothers head, well, a bit lightminded. (by the time she was 16

And Arya killing LF is a bit unfair to Sansa ;)

Then, I've got a problem with Arya's future after the revenge... She will lose all she had, her only goal (unless there will be something new). I can't believe it but I'm actually a bit sorry for Arya.

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