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AGoT Reread: Direwolves, Dragons [eggs], Momont’s Raven, and Cats, Oh My! Pets or Providence?


evita mgfs

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To get back of the many mentions of iron, and ironwood in the prologue here's one from Bran'd chapter.

Finally his lord father gave a command, and two of his guardsmen dragged the ragged man to the ironwood stump in the center of the square.

It's interesting that this man is about to be beheaded on ironwood, while iron swords are needed to keep the ghosts in their crypts in WF.

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Jon somehow HEARD Ghost, even though he never makes a sound. He says : Don't you hear it? But Bran only hears his own pup whimpering. it's interesting.

Yes, it's very interesting.

There are man, horses and found pups all making noises. But, in all of that, somehow Jon "hears" a small mute pup?

And have no problem finding white pup in white snow without sounds to guide him?

Plus, he's the only one to hear / see Ghost. I doubt he was capable of "hearing with his ears".

Mose likely Old Gods guided him to the pup.

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That I do not know, I think so because the Other melted away like ice (I think that's what they're made from, and dragonglass kills them because it's fire as hot as dragonfire inside - sort of). I think Grenn and Sam would've pickes up the sword and took it with them as proof if it was still there... right?

I found the passage.

And then he was stumbling forward, falling more than running, really, closing his eyes and shoving the dagger blindly out before him with both hands. He heard a crack, like the sound ice makes when it breaks beneath a man’s foot, and then a screech so shrill and sharp that he went staggering backward with his hands over his muffled ears, and fell hard on his arse. When he opened his eyes the Other’s armor was running down its legs in rivulets as pale blue blood hissed and steamed around the black dragonglass dagger in its throat. It reached down with two bone-white hands to pull out the knife, but where its fingers touched the obsidian they smoked.

Sam rolled onto his side, eyes wide as the Other shrank and puddled, dissolving away. In twenty heartbeats its flesh was gone, swirling away in a fine white mist. Beneath were bones like milkglass, pale and shiny, and they were melting too. Finally only the dragonglass dagger remained, wreathed in steam as if it were alive and sweating.

And you're right Little Wing, the Other's blade is not mentioned. And seeing as how "only dragonglass remains" after it was stabbed, the theory someone mentioned about their blades being a part of them has merit.

Jon somehow HEARD Ghost, even though he never makes a sound. He says : Don't you hear it? But Bran only hears his own pup whimpering. it's interesting.

So do you think it was a moment of warging? Sort of how Arya warged into the cat in Braavos, but she didn't do it in purpose - it was almost like the cat reached out to her. Maybe Ghost did the same thing?

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So do you think it was a moment of warging? Sort of how Arya warged into the cat in Braavos, but she didn't do it in purpose - it was almost like the cat reached out to her. Maybe Ghost did the same thing?

IMO, it could have been the voice of Old Gods or BR.

When Bran first "wargs" a tree he sees Ned and tries to speak with him.

Ned can't truly "hear" Bran but he feels something.

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So do you think it was a moment of warging? Sort of how Arya warged into the cat in Braavos, but she didn't do it in purpose - it was almost like the cat reached out to her. Maybe Ghost did the same thing?

Yes I think so. I think at that point, because he's so quiet and observant Jon might be the one who is most open to his wolf connection, but I don't think he realises it yet. It also might have to do with his Targ blood. Targs have prophetic dreams, so maybe he even had a dream about it in advance, and that was why he excluded himself from the Stark kids. I definitely think it was all some unconscious process though.

Little Wing does have a point, maybe we should focus on the prologue today and look into Bran's chapter more tomorrow to avoid total chaos?

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And you're right Little Wing, the Other's blade is not mentioned. And seeing as how "only dragonglass remains" after it was stabbed, the theory someone mentioned about their blades being a part of them has merit.

Hah, I mentioned it, of course ;) the scream the blades make is organic to me, an animal screaming - it made me think it's part of the Other, and the painful scream comes from its clashing with iron, which Others bulk from. It's not "lethal" as dragonglass but may hurt them anyway...

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Little Wing does have a point, maybe we should focus on the prologue today and look into Bran's chapter more tomorrow to avoid total chaos?

You guys are right. Unfortunately, with a subject like this, it's so easy to get ahead of ourselves and put in crackpot theories everywhere xD

Hah, I mentioned it, of course ;) the scream the blades make is organic to me, an animal screaming - it made me think it's part of the Other, and the painful scream comes from its clashing with iron, which Others bulk from. It's not "lethal" as dragonglass but may hurt them anyway...

Well, the repeated use of iron (not just in the Prologue but everywhere), Old Nan's claims about the Others not liking iron and even the superstitions surrounding iron in the real world pretty much indicates that it's important. However, if that's the case, I'll have to say the Other's are not very smart for fighting with something that is a part of themselves, and hurts every time someone delivers a blow xP

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Holy crap Evita, didn't realize we would be getting yours so soon. Time to reread the chapter and get back to you.

Awesome stuff though, you guys are doing fantastic so far!

:kiss: :kiss: THE LORD'S KISS: We were thinking of posting them together, and I am new at this, :blushing: so I didn't know when I should add it. I am sorry if I breeched proper protocol. :dunno: Next time I will wait, Or I can repost after the discussion on THE PROLOGUE! :dunce:

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Waymar was the first to unsheathe the blade and lift it above his head, going for the attack. So the fight was inevitable at that point - I couldn't imagine the Other fleeing from a fight with a mere human however the iron may or may not hurt...

Evita, there's no protocol, but it was too soon to post about the next chapter only after a few of us got to comment on the Prologue... no rush, take it easy... :laugh:

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Before you read my notes, I wish to advise that I visited other threads, and people linked to The Tower of the Hand as well as wrote up their own summaries for the chapters.

I thought this a bit redundant, so the teacher in me has devised a different approach. In my post, I offer quotations from the chapter and possible questions for study and discussion.

I did not want to summarize what you had just read – so I deviate from what is probably the norm, and I apologize, but it is school teacher in me.

So instead, I gathered and typed up relevant quotes from the POV and possible questions to get us going. BTW, some of my questions may be lame – but I wanted to allow the people new to the board an opportunity to address some of what we long-time posters may already know.

Moreover, some of these new people are a little intimidated – and I do not want them to feel that way. On the contrary, I want them to share without the fear of reprisal. So I hope my approach is a bit different but still helpful.

You DO NOT have to discuss my questions either. We can begin our return to GoT with any ideas or questions anyone has. My information gathering is just a way to help jump start speculation and discussion.

Chapter 2 BRAN’S POV

Dramatic Personae

Brandon Stark, Eddard Stark, Robb Stark, Jon Snow, Theon Greyjoy, Desmond, Gared, Harwin, Hullen, Jory Cassel, Tomard

The first line of Bran’s first POV reads:

“The morning had dawned clear and cold, with a crispness that hinted at the end of summer” (13).

  • Note the use of summer. What does this mean? For SUMMER is the very name Bran gives his pup.

  1. Ned says to Bran:

“In truth, the man was an oathbreaker, a deserter from the Night’s Watch.No man is more dangerous.The deserter knows his life is forfeit if he is taken, so he will not flinch from any crime, no matter how vile” (16).

  1. Ned says to Bran:

“One day Bran, you will be Robb’s bannerman, holding a keep of your own for your brother and your king, and justice will belong to you.When this day comes, you must take no pleasure in the task, but neither must you look away.A ruler who hides behind paid executioners soon forgets what death is” (16).

NOW, I will ADJUST Ned’s wording to fit Bran’s situation “presently” as we know it:

“One day, Bran, you will be a greenseer, sitting a weirwood throne of your own for the old gods of the North, and justice will belong to you.When that day comes, you must take no vengeance for personal reasons, but neither must you shirk your duties as part of the godhood.A god who hides behind the face of a weirwood tree soon forgets what death is.”

I couldn’t help it.I think these words of Ned’s are significant even in regards to Bran presently.

I applied Ned’s advice to Bran the greenseer.So let me ask you, gentle readers, do you think Bran will be a vengeful god, at least at first?Why or Why not?

  1. Does Ned speak with unconscious irony here, or am I overanalyzing Martin’s word choice:

“Come, let us see what mischief my sons have rooted out now” (17).

  • Ned uses the verb rooted – what does this mean?
  • Do Ned’s words suggest that “rooted out” means that the direwolves are sent by the old gods, who reside in the roots of trees?

  1. “The riders picked their way carefully through the drifts, grouping for solid footing on the hidden, uneven ground. Jory Cassel and Theon Greyjoy were the first to reach the boys. Theon was laughing and joking as he rode. Bran heard the breath go out of him. “Gods!” he exclaimed, struggling to keep control of his horse as he reached for his sword.

Jory’s sword was already out.“Robb, get away from it!’ he called as his horse reared under him.

  • Theon says “Gods!” in conjunction to the direwolf. Is his choice of word intentional? Or is he saying ir merely as an expletive?
  • Will Bran someday hear “Theon’s breath” leave him for real in the future?

  1. Robb grinned and looked up from the bundle in his arms. ‘She can’t hurt you,’ he said. ‘She’s dead, Jory.’

  • Does Robb speak with unconscious irony when he suggests that the dead can’t hurt you?”

  1. “A wolf,” Robb told him [Theon].

“A freak,” Greyjoy said.”

  • Freak rhymes with Reek – is this a happy coincidenc

  1. Half-buried in bloodstained snow, a huge dark shape slumped in death. Ice had formed in its shaggy grey fur, and the faint smell of corruption clung to it like a woman’s perfume. Bran glimpsed blind eyes crawling with maggots, a wide mouth full of yellowed teeth. But it was the size of it that made him gasp.
    So I always obviously knew the direwolf represented Ned, but never noticed how much so. Starting with the name of his sword the beast is "covered" in, there is a "faint smell of corruption [clinging] to it like a woman's perfume." Cersei, anyone? Blind eyes, because he cannot see the dealings and underhanded tactics going on at King's Landing, and a wide mouth because he opens his mouth to Cersei in the godswood and seals his fate. Call me crazy.
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:kiss: :kiss: THE LORD'S KISS: We were thinking of posting them together, and I am new at this, :blushing: so I didn't know when I should add it. I am sorry if I breeched proper protocol. :dunno: Next time I will wait, Or I can repost after the discussion on THE PROLOGUE! :dunce:

lolol aw it's okay! I would say from now on only do one a day but I think you already have that scheduled. We can discuss both at once, you both did really well! Commendable indeed.
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HEY, ALL. SKIP CHAPTER 1 BRAN'S POV: ONLY DISCUSS THE PACK SURVIVES PROLOGUE. I WILL REPOST MINE LATER - AND HOPEFULLY THEN THE NUMBERING WILL TAKE! SORRY FOR THE INCONVENIENCE OF POSTING SOOO SOON. LIKE LITTLE WING SAYS, I AM TOO EXCITED!

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:kiss: :kiss: THE LORD'S KISS: We were thinking of posting them together, and I am new at this, :blushing: so I didn't know when I should add it. I am sorry if I breeched proper protocol. :dunno: Next time I will wait, Or I can repost after the discussion on THE PROLOGUE! :dunce:

It's no critisism, it just got a bit confusing. I say let's just go on the way it is for this week, since people are already discussing both, and leave one or 2 days between chapters next week :)

Well, the repeated use of iron (not just in the Prologue but everywhere), Old Nan's claims about the Others not liking iron and even the superstitions surrounding iron in the real world pretty much indicates that it's important. However, if that's the case, I'll have to say the Other's are not very smart for fighting with something that is a part of themselves, and hurts every time someone delivers a blow xP

Yes I know! It's so interesting. Iron seems to be connected to fire magic. I think probably because the Others are made of superice, everything else shatters as soon as they touch it, so they have no choice.

So I always obviously knew the direwolf represented Ned, but never noticed how much so. Starting with the name of his sword the beast is "covered" in, there is a "faint smell of corruption [clinging] to it like a woman's perfume." Cersei, anyone? Blind eyes, because he cannot see the dealings and underhanded tactics going on at King's Landing, and a wide mouth because he opens his mouth to Cersei in the godswood and seals his fate. Call me crazy.

Wow! this is really interesting. I noticed the blind eyes too, but couldn't think of a connection with Ned!

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I'm reposting some of my previous post, cause I think this part is quite interesting:

A cold wind was blowing out of the north, and it made the trees rustle like living things. All day, Will had felt as though something were watching him, something cold and implacable that loved him not.

Are the trees rustling a reference to the Old Gods? Are the CotF trying to warn them? Are they the ones watching? Are the CotF working with the Others on the side of Ice? Others hide during the day, so how could they be the ones watching?

Frostfallen leaves whispered past them, and Royce's destrier moved restlessly.

Again whispering leaves, the horse notices. Maybe the horse understands the warning.

Somewhere off in the wood a wolf howled.

A warning? Or is the wolf announcing the attack, like a warhorn? Are the wolves on the side of the Others or not?

Royce paused a moment, staring off into the distance, his face reflective. A cold wind whispered through the trees. His great sable cloak stirred behind like something half-alive.

Again leaves are whispering, perhaps another warning. Most interesting is the descrition of the sable cloak looking like something half-alive, as if it's foreboding of the dead coming back to life.

"There's something wrong here," Gared muttered.

The young knight gave him a disdainful smile. "Is there?"

"Can't you feel it?" Gared asked. "Listen to the darkness."

Will could feel it. Four years in the Night's Watch, and he had never been so afraid. What was it?

"Wind. Trees rustling. A wolf. Which sound is it that unmans you so, Gared?" When Gared did not answer, Royce slid gracefully from his saddle. He tied the destrier securely to a low-hanging limb, well away from the other horses, and drew his longsword from its sheath. Jewels glittered in its hilt, and the moonlight ran down the shining steel. It was a splendid weapon, castle-forged, and new-made from the look of it. Will doubted it had ever been swung in anger.

Gared is pressing Waymar to use his animal instincts. Also in this text is one of the many examples where moonlight reflects on either metal or water. It seems to be related to death or the Others.

"There's some enemies a fire will keep away," Gared said. "Bears and direwolves and ... and other

things . . ."

Bears and direwolves... Hmm.. Mormonts and Starks? Does this mean they have been known to fight on the side of Ice in the past?

Will made no sound as he climbed. Behind him, he heard the soft metallic slither of the lordling's ringmail, the rustle of leaves, and muttered curses as reaching branches grabbed at his longsword and tugged on his splendid sable cloak.

As if the wood is saying: “Get down! Hide Hide!” in once another warning, or as if the wood is trying to hold him back so the Others can attack. Again the question: are the CotF involved in this, and if so; which side are they on?

Down below, the lordling called out suddenly, "Who goes there?" Will heard uncertainty in the challenge.

He stopped climbing; he listened; he watched.

The woods gave answer: the rustle of leaves, the icy rush of the stream, a distant hoot of a snow owl.

The Others made no sound.

Again a warning, or announcement from the woods, the Old Gods and the CotF. The Others make no sound, so it's probably not them giving the warning/announcement.

The Other said something in a language that Will did not know; his voice was like the cracking of ice on a winter lake, and the words were mocking.

I think this is (not the Old Tongue, but) the True Tongue that the CotF speak as well, this makes me wonder again if they might be on the side of Ice.

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I love the Royce connection with the runes! I think Bronze Yohn will play a much larger part in the next two books, and his armour might prove to give some supernatural protection. They seem to be descended from the First Men, probably why he finds the Wall still important enough to send his own son there.

LF is planning on recapturing WF for Sansa, if Bronze Yohn goes along with this, it will place him in the North. Or maybe he'll go to the wall to find out what happened to his son himself.

Did I just see that there was a sable in his sigil? This would explain his son's sable cloak, and perhaps would even be a link to them warging sables in the past :D

:bowdown: :bowdown: MANDERLY'S COOK RAT: WOW! and WOW! I read through your posts, and I need to come up with a worthy response. :blushing: So give me a few - the catch with the animals and the sable, BRILLIANT!!

Maybe you should do one of the upcoming summaries for the group, if you have time. :thumbsup: You obviously out much thought and effort into your presentations for us. You truly have amazing insight.

Keep up the good work. I am proud of you! :love: :wub:

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:bowdown: :bowdown: MANDERLY'S COOK RAT: WOW! and WOW! I read through your posts, and I need to come up with a worthy response. :blushing: So give me a few - the catch with the animals and the sable, BRILLIANT!!

Maybe you should do one of the upcoming summaries for the group, if you have time. :thumbsup: You obviously out much thought and effort into your presentations for us. You truly have amazing insight.

Keep up the good work. I am proud of you! :love: :wub:

Ahw Thank you so much Evita!

I'd love to write some summaries, though not all of them ;) I like to study the text, and I always hope to find some inspiration for my art in it (I'm an artist). I'm currently working on a Reek painting, with Reek eating a scrummy wriggling rat :P

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TO ALL: I had to share with you these darling squirrels from the campus of Penn State University. A wild life major makes little hats and props for each squirrel. Now, these squirrels are quite tame, for the students spoil them daily – look at these pix? They even wear the little hats. :dunce:

I figured they would fit into the topic because Arya always has to eat acorn paste!!! :ack:

Here are the PSU SQUIRRELS: http://ladyevyta.tum...ost/35071506245 :grouphug:

LITTLE WING: Make sure you see the Halloween Squirrel wearing a witch's hat! He, or she?? reminds me of your vampire kitty with the hat!! :hat:

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