Lady Sansa Stark Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I for one, wonder when it is you supose Theon betrayed Robb?While Theon seemed cocky, at the start, he is rather weak willed. He did go to his father, he did try to plead his and Robbs plan, but back down after his father questions what kind of man he is. He then does as his father told him, and attacks the North. He wins WF, to try and show up his sister, and to show he was an Ironman, but then is goaded in to killing people there by other Ironmen because he doesn't want to seem weak. When Bran and the our gang escape, he is again goaded into doing things he did not want to do, this time by "Reek" his prisoner, who he was too weak to stop.Theon was always weak willed, likely from growing up as a hostage. He was just to weak to stop things from happening, even in his own name.But that doesn't excuse Theon for the things he did. Killing two young boys, their mother, Mikken etc. He can be weak-willed all he wants, but to use that as a weak excuse.. Nah. I blame him for it, even after the torture he's endured. He knew those weren't the right things. I know he wanted to look strong and ''Look at me, I'm an Ironborn and so fieeeeerce'', but that absolutely doesn't excuse him for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 This is the Tully coming out in Robb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Wolf Smith Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 But that doesn't excuse Theon for the things he did. Killing two young boys, their mother, Mikken etc. He can be weak-willed all he wants, but to use that as a weak excuse.. Nah. I blame him for it, even after the torture he's endured. He knew those weren't the right things. I know he wanted to look strong and ''Look at me, I'm an Ironborn and so fieeeeerce'', but that absolutely doesn't excuse him for anything.He didn't Ramsey did(as Reek) and Theon had neither the balls, or strength to stop him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSnow House Stark Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I've always suspected that, had Theon not done what he did (and had Robb survived), he and Robb's relationship could have ended up being similar to the one Robert and Ned had. Not exactly alike, mind you, but similarly based on a deeply felt respect and admiration. Alas, what could have been.Yeah, GRRM did say that (I couldn't find the SSM, unfortunately). The reason Robb never became a POV is because, as I recall, GRRM didn't want any of the kings to be POVs. In fact, Davos was created in part so that someone could tell Stannis's story.Ok, now this is interesting. I had not heard that he did not want kings to have a POV, does this mean that any character in the series who does have a POV will not be a king? Likely this has been discussed before, with me being a noob I would have missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budj Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 What I find interesting in the Jon - Robb - Theon love triangle is that Theon ended up doing what Cat was always afraid of Jon doing....taking WF... Granted he didn't hold it long - he still 'killed the heirs' and took it over long enough for someone other than a Stark to get a hold on it (Ramsay).And I agree - weak will was always Theon's issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrlukeduke Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 Ok, now this is interesting. I had not heard that he did not want kings to have a POV, does this mean that any character in the series who does have a POV will not be a king?Interesting question.It's fascinating how we can infer things not just from subtle clues in the content of the books themselves (i.e. plot), but also the writing style and plot "devices" George Martin employs as an author.POV chapters are a huge device. Example being, the final character POV being the "death" (literally or metaphorically) of the chapter's POV character (Jon Snow & Kevan, ADwD final chapter and Epilogue; also Daenerys, GoT chapter #73; etc, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Hand Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 He didn't Ramsey did(as Reek) and Theon had neither the balls, or strength to stop him.Ramsay came up with the idea but it was Theon who gave the go-ahead. He believed at the time that it was neccesary but regretted it soon afterwards. My point is Reek didn't do it in spite of Theon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Hand Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 But that doesn't excuse Theon for the things he did. Killing two young boys, their mother, Mikken etc. He can be weak-willed all he wants, but to use that as a weak excuse.. Nah. I blame him for it, even after the torture he's endured. He knew those weren't the right things. I know he wanted to look strong and ''Look at me, I'm an Ironborn and so fieeeeerce'', but that absolutely doesn't excuse him for anything.Mikken died because he insisted on it, shouting and insulting the people who took your castle is stupid, especially when they mean you no harm. Theon didn't want to kill the kids he just thought it was the only option left to him given the situation. His worst crime is killing his own men IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blue Rose Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Ok, now this is interesting. I had not heard that he did not want kings to have a POV, does this mean that any character in the series who does have a POV will not be a king? Likely this has been discussed before, with me being a noob I would have missed it.I know! This would take a great many possible kings/queens out of the running. From the Starks only Rickon would be left. Queens that defeat Cersei... Margery, Myrcella, Shireen? From the Targs, only the young griff... Gendry and Edric Storm for Baratheons... Tommen for Lannisters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyannaStargaryen Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Blood is thicker than friendship and Robb learned that the hard way.And Theon learned the exact opposite, and also the hard way, interesting:"And Robb. Robb who had been more a brother to Theon than any son born of Balon Greyjoy's loins. Murdered at the Red Wedding, butchered by the Freys. I should have been with him. Where was I? I should have died with him." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 And Theon learned the exact opposite, and also the hard way, interesting:"And Robb. Robb who had been more a brother to Theon than any son born of Balon Greyjoy's loins. Murdered at the Red Wedding, butchered by the Freys. I should have been with him. Where was I? I should have died with him."Very interesting, indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylin Stark Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 I think Theon did influence Robb to a certain extent. Even though they are not blood brothers, Theon, Robb and Jon did spend most of their time together as teenage boys in Winterfell.But there are differences. Theon was cocky, prideful and used to boast about his status as a nobleman, unlike Robb or Jon.Also, Theon visited brothels unlike Robb or Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greywind93 Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Blood is thicker than friendship and Robb learned that the hard way. I read that quote on a different site and your using it incorrectly the saying used to be the blood of battle is thicker then the water of the womb. meaning those you fight with should be closer then family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I read that quote on a different site and your using it incorrectly the saying used to be the blood of battle is thicker then the water of the womb. meaning those you fight with should be closer then familyI meant what I said. I was not quoting anything or paraphrasing anything. Get it? Oh yea, it's you're not your. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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