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Varys the Mastermind/ Littlefinger the Golddigger: A Comparison


butterbumps!

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Bolded.

1. Probably for two reasons. Firstly, he can't prove it. Secondly, he gains nothing from it. Just because Tyrion is clued in (without proof) that LF whispers in Joffrey's ear, so what? He has little to no chance of taking LF down, not while Cersei and Joffrey don't want him gone. At the same time, the city is on the verge of a monetary and food crisis. Taking out the master of coin would make little sense, especially when this man has men in almost every important administrative position. Varys does not guarantee LF's downfall by mentioning this to Tyrion. He doesn't hold LF's fate in his hands.

We also have no idea as to whether LF or Varys have any true dirt on the other because of the fact we can't see into their minds. The only potential fact is the possibly non-canon scene in GOT where LF suggests he knows about Varys' relation with Illyrio.

2. Just because Varys sees LF as a help to his agenda, it still doesn't mean he knows what he believes.

BTW, by "believes" you mean with regards to motives and the like, not stories about people yes?

Oh, and am I the only one who finds Varys' ability to bring tears to his eyes whenever he wants hilarious?

I don't suspect Tyrion would require much proof, especially with the dagger incident. He was also given explicit permission/instructions from Tywin to put heads on spikes if anyone is playing the Lannisters false and LF's head was on Tywin's list along with Ned's beheading as one of Tywin's beheading offenses. In that chapter Tyrion is dealing with Slynt per Tywin's "will get Harrenhal over my dead body" instructions. He specifically investigates Tywin's complaints when he arrives at KL and he speaks of Ned's beheading with Varys.

Lord Tywin seated himself. “You have the right of it about Stark. Alive, we might have used Lord Eddard to forge a peace with Winterfell and Riverrun, a peace that would have given us the time we need to deal with Robert’s brothers. Dead…” His hand curled into a fist. “Madness. Rank madness.”

Tyrion hooted with laughter. “My sweet sister might have a word or two to say about that!”

“Let her say what she likes. Her son needs to be taken in hand before he ruins us all. I blame those jackanapes on the council—our friend Petyr, the venerable Grand Maester, and that cockless wonder Lord Varys. What sort of counsel are they giving Joffrey when he lurches from one folly to the next? Whose notion was it to make this Janos Slynt a lord? The man’s father was a butcher, and they grant him Harrenhal. Harrenhal, that was the seat of kings! Not that he will ever set foot inside it, if I have a say. I am told he took a bloody spear for his sigil. A bloody cleaver would have been my choice.” His father had not raised his voice, yet Tyrion could see the anger in the gold of his eyes. “And dismissing Selmy, where was the sense in that? Yes, the man was old, but the name of Barristan the Bold still has meaning in the realm. He lent honor to any man he served. Can anyone say the same of the Hound? You feed your dog bones under the table, you do not seat him beside you on the high bench.” He pointed a finger at Tyrion’s face. “If Cersei cannot curb the boy, you must. And if these councillors are playing us false…”

Tyrion knew. “Spikes,” he sighed. “Heads. Walls.”

Tyrion almost puts the LF pieces together himself.

“It does seem my sister was telling the truth about Stark’s death. We have my nephew to thank for that madness.”

“King Joffrey gave the command. Janos Slynt and Ser Ilyn Payne carried it out, swiftly, without hesitation…”

“…almost as if they had expected it. Yes, we have been over this ground before, without profit. A folly.”

“Lord Janos will be sailing for the Wall on the morning tide. Varys would have me believe that I have replaced one of Joffrey’s men with one of my own. More likely, I have replaced Littlefinger’s man with one belonging to Varys, but so be it.”

If Slynt expected the order and he was LF's creature... Varys really didn't have to do much here to tip the scales.

Yes, by "belief" I mean values, motivations, etc or to put it in Varys terms, if LF were the sellsword in the riddle he knows who would live and who would die.

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Varys is known for attributing his motivations to “for the children,” and “serving the realm.” The obvious questions are “which realm?” “serve the realm in what way?” and “which children exactly?” On one hand it appears that Varys wants ultimate stability, for which he admittedly cracks many eggs. But I could also see it being the exact opposite case, especially if magic is involved.

Beautiful analysis.

It always bothers me when people claim that he's a Targ loyalist.

If he was why would he give information to a (mad) King about Rhaegar supposedly plotting against him?

Shouldn't a Targ loyalist be happy with Rhaegar?

About Viserys and Dany; is it possible that part of their use was just to be something to take Robert's attention off " Aegon".

If Aegon was supposed to do something bast way to keep him covered is to give King Bob the last Targs to chase.

I think too much has been made of LF. He is basically an opportunist with contigencies and a personal grudge. His main asset is (was) that he is useful without being a threat (or at least that is what most of the high lords thought of him).

Agreed.

The way most characters go "Oh, LF? Yes, he's so very useful, let us give him things. We don't have to fear him because he's too lowborn to be a threat." make me want to scream. :bang:

Varys plays a more subtle game. He tiptoes for twenty years being useful to nobles who would without a second thought take his head off. I doubt that he ever outright lies. He can't afford to be cought at it. His ablility to saty alive and manipulate under these constraints is impressive on its own, but I can't help but wonder what he has to show for dancing the dance for twenty years or so.

He danced that dance with a mad king.

A king who could have had a wild idea at any moment. Reasoning and proving how useful is much easier with a sane ruler.

Insane one can roast you for a slightest thing. But Varys did well.

That's gives him bonus points in my book.

They keep him because he's made himself indispensable ... and they know that if they ever got rid of him, he'd be selling out to the highest bidder in five minutes. Would you rather have the all-knowing spymaster working for you, or for someone else?

Yes, later when Qyburn takes over as spy master, Cersei thinks how "Varys made us think he's indispensable".

I think Gendry is sent to the Wall as a means of preserving evidence of the incest, should such evidence be needed. When Aegon comes and the realm is in shambles, it will distract attention from questions of Aegon's legitimacy to turn the conversation back on the Lannisters with accusations of their illegitimacy.

I don't believe that Varys has a soft spot for children as such.

I think so too.

But I also think that Gendry was to be stashed away as a possible future Lord of Stormend.

If Aegon needs support of Storm Lord he can legitimize Gendry (Robert v2) and make him a lord.

Storm lords would probably follow him, he's uneducated and have no family (much easier to to be manipulated then ES who have a bunch of high born relatives and who had education) and he be indebted to Aegon.

And by "rewarding" a bastard son of the man who killed his "father" Aegon is shown as wise, just and merciful.

No reason to fight him. He holds no grudges.

I don't know if the fact that magic was sorely weakened before these dragons occurred tells us anything conclusive about Varys' beliefs, though. We know that fire magic seemed weakened, but despite this, Thoros- who never seemed like a big believer in the first place-- somewhat uncharacteristically thought to try the kiss of life, despite it's never working for him before. It's possible that someone who hadn't previously seen the signs of magic would recognize these signs when they do ultimately come to fruition. Also, do we know for a certainty that Varys doesn't know about the dragons at this point? I think he could, actually.

Thoros wasn't trying to save Beric with his kiss.

It's not a "kiss of life" it's a "last kiss".

I have no magic, child. Only prayers. That first time, his lordship had a hole right through him and blood in his mouth, I knew there was no hope. So when his poor torn chest stopped moving, I gave him the good god’s own kiss to send him on his way. I filled my mouth with fire and breathed the flames inside him, down his throat to lungs and heart and soul. The last kiss it is called, and many a time I saw the old priests bestow it on the Lord’s servants as they died. I had given it a time or two myself, as all priests must. But never before had I felt a dead man shudder as the fire filled him, nor seen his eyes come open. It was not me who raised him, my lady. It was the Lord. R’hllor is not done with him yet. Life is warmth, and warmth is fire, and fire is God’s and God’s alone.

He just wanted to " send him on his way".

And probably was the one surprised the most when Beric got up.

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But I also think that Gendry was to be stashed away as a possible future Lord of Stormend.

If Aegon needs support of Storm Lord he can legitimize Gendry (Robert v2) and make him a lord.

Storm lords would probably follow him, he's uneducated and have no family (much easier to to be manipulated then ES who have a bunch of high born relatives and who had education) and he be indebted to Aegon.

And by "rewarding" a bastard son of the man who killed his "father" Aegon is shown as wise, just and merciful.

No reason to fight him. He holds no grudges.

Except that the Night's Watch is not a place where you stash future heirs. Joining the Watch takes them out of the political games of the realm (quite apart form the fact that it's ridiculously far away).

And legitimizing Gendry will please the Stormlords? Aren't we forgetting the rampant classism in Westeros? Elevating some baseborn bastard to one of the greatest lordships in the realm is not going to win you a whole lot of friends. Edric is an option here because of his mother's rank, Gendry not so much.

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Fantastic thread BB. The Lyn Corbray-Sweet Robin connection is something that completely sailed over my head, but jesus.

I just have one question; where do you think Tyrion fits in? With Littlefinger, we have two strong motives for him to want Tyrion gone ASAP; Tyrion knows about Littlefinger's deception regarding the dagger (and Littlefinger knows he knows) and Littlefinger is rather unhappy Tyrion "used" him in the Myrcella-Robert ploy. I think Littlefinger is a decent candidate in the Mandon Moore assassination attempt, but then he finishes the job with the Purple Wedding.

But what about Varys? Ostensibly, Varys gives Tyrion the same song and dance he gives all new arrivals to King's Landing that we see with Ned, and hear about from Cersei. He gets stung by Tyrion in the same fashion in his One,Two,Three scheme, but unlike Littlefinger, he doesn't seem to mind being deceived, or is at least able to conceal an emotional reaction. He does reveal his 'origin story' to Tyrion, but I agree we need to take that with a grain of salt.

But once Tyrion is arrested after the Purple Wedding, what was Varys planning for him? His initial testimony at Tyrion's trial suggests he was going to throw Tyrion under the bus with the rest of the court. So did Jaime's visit change all this? Or was this testimony merely maintaining a facade? Once Tyrion was freed, Varys was sure to be at the top of most people's suspect lists (it's Tywin's first guess, and Cersei's as well), so was this a planned action, or did Jaime force Varys to alter his plans, or was the plan all along to free Tyrion to kill Tywin, and destabilse Cersei by seeing Tyrion's influence in all the people at court?

Did Varys all along intend to send Tyrion to Daenerys, once Tyrion had proven himself a capable player, or did Varys do it out of expediency, to make the best of a bad situation?

Or is Tyrion a pawn in a hidden game being played between Varys and Illyrio? Did Varys accurately assess that Tyrion would counsel Aegon to not wait for Daenerys, based on his hate for Cersei, and is this something Varys wanted, but Illyrio didn't? Does Varys not want Daenerys or the dragons in the mix, as they're an unpredictable element he can't easily control?

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Except that the Night's Watch is not a place where you stash future heirs. Joining the Watch takes them out of the political games of the realm (quite apart form the fact that it's ridiculously far away).

And legitimizing Gendry will please the Stormlords? Aren't we forgetting the rampant classism in Westeros? Elevating some baseborn bastard to one of the greatest lordships in the realm is not going to win you a whole lot of friends. Edric is an option here because of his mother's rank, Gendry not so much.

I said that I think it could be a possible game to play.

Not that I think it's a certainty.

Gendry could have even been used in a "The Battle of the Trident" redux.

But one in which Rhaegar v2 kills Robert v2. :dunno:

I just don't see Varys saving anybody out of the goodness of his heart.

There had to be something in it for him.

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...I don't know if the fact that magic was sorely weakened before these dragons occurred tells us anything conclusive about Varys' beliefs, though. We know that fire magic seemed weakened, but despite this, Thoros- who never seemed like a big believer in the first place-- somewhat uncharacteristically thought to try the kiss of life, despite it's never working for him before. It's possible that someone who hadn't previously seen the signs of magic would recognize these signs when they do ultimately come to fruition. Also, do we know for a certainty that Varys doesn't know about the dragons at this point? I think he could, actually...

According to the Global Timeline Varys could, just about, know of the dragons in that Daenerys December marriage is being discussed the following July by the Small Council, the Dragons are hatched in January and Varys tells Tyrion about the fall of Storms End in September. We know Jorah Mormont was still sending messages to Varys at that time - however it does require that communications from the middle of nowhere to Kings Landing are as good as communications from Pentos to Kings Landing which seems implausible - unless somebody remembers a mention of a Western Union office in that town that the Dothraki sack.

If I remember correctly Thoros doesn't give Beric the kiss of life the first time because he thinks it might revive him - he does it because that is the R'hllorista priest equivalent of administering the Last Rites.

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Oh- yes, thanks Dark Heart and Lummel. I forgot the Kiss was just part of the Red's funerary ritual, and something Thoros had done without the intention of reanimation. Though, now that I think on it, what the hell happened to dead people when fire magic has been plentiful in the past? I mean, if the Kiss of Life/ Last Kiss is just rote convention, was there a time period when this funerary practice actually brought a ton of people back to life as just "business as usual?" I know a major tenet of the Reds is the belief that AAR will come and vanquish death itself through a kind of Revelations-esque mass resurrection. And it just so happens that only now such death-vanquishing is taking place, even though we know that magic hadn't truly left the world given what was going on North of the Wall. I have to think on this more, and it's a complete tangent anyway, but I wonder if there's a clue here in how different forms of magic work.

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It is a good question. Because if magic disappeared with the dragons - that's fairly recently (within Bloodraven's lifespan anyway :laugh:). I would expect it to be mentioned if Red Priests were reviving people on their death beds a mere hundred and fifty years earlier.

I can't help wondering about the practical implications too - what does one do with these hordes of unpeople? Presumably they only revived priests or temple soldiers, does this explain what Melisandre is? Anyhow off topic.

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It is a good question. Because if magic disappeared with the dragons - that's fairly recently (within Bloodraven's lifespan anyway :laugh:). I would expect it to be mentioned if Red Priests were reviving people on their death beds a mere hundred and fifty years earlier.

I can't help wondering about the practical implications too - what does one do with these hordes of unpeople? Presumably they only revived priests or temple soldiers, does this explain what Melisandre is? Anyhow off topic.

[Tangent]

I don't believe that dragons influence "magic" holistically, as we had stirrings of magic up North-- both of the CotF and Ice variety (and I think the CotF magic is a much different nature than fire and ice, which seem similar to each other). I get the sense that some kind of condition has to be "right" to enable the birth of dragons, and will concede that fire magic seems to have a causal relationship to them (i.e. fire magic won't work without dragons). But it appears that only fire magic is rooted in the existence of dragons.

I like where you're going with the nature of Mel in this. As an even further aside, I'm truly wondering what she will look like once that glamour comes off and/ or tries to give the kiss of life somehow (which, incidentally, I suspect would be going to Stannis rather than Jon)-- dust? Something like the woman in the bathtub in the Shining? [/Tangent]

It's just a curiosity to me given that fire magic is not exclusive in the world, and that some forms existed prior to Dany's dragons that there could be some involvement of Varys in a brand of this outside of fire magic. This isn't something I subscribe to-- only tossing out-- but it would be a pretty funny development if he was one of Bloodraven's moles. Makes it even more hilarious that a major part of his master plan pertains to elevating a Blackfyre. Which means that at least Varys isn't actually working toward said Blackfyre restoration.

This is seriously the problem with Varys. When you look beyond the plot he has with Illyrio, everything lends itself to becoming a crackpot.

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Oh- yes, thanks Dark Heart and Lummel. I forgot the Kiss was just part of the Red's funerary ritual, and something Thoros had done without the intention of reanimation. Though, now that I think on it, what the hell happened to dead people when fire magic has been plentiful in the past? I mean, if the Kiss of Life/ Last Kiss is just rote convention, was there a time period when this funerary practice actually brought a ton of people back to life as just "business as usual?" I know a major tenet of the Reds is the belief that AAR will come and vanquish death itself through a kind of Revelations-esque mass resurrection. And it just so happens that only now such death-vanquishing is taking place, even though we know that magic hadn't truly left the world given what was going on North of the Wall. I have to think on this more, and it's a complete tangent anyway, but I wonder if there's a clue here in how different forms of magic work.

And now imagine the never-ending Summer the Red Priests look forward to so much and want to bring about, and what it really implies... :o and there's no Wall to stop them from coming, hah...

Anyway, I wonder how much Varys knows about the Game of Ice and Fire - he did tell the council about rumours of dragons and even krakens, and as it's already been observed, he explained death-by-shadow-baby quite well, so he's well informed on the magic front as well... which could not be said for LF.

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Mormont gave Varys a report once he reached Quarth. Varys would have been among the first in Westeros to learn a Targaryen hatched dragons. I always assumed that Varys never talked about it because at that point, Dany and her dragons becamse part of the whole Aegon plot. But if Varys has other agendas beyond Aegon that are magically related, the dragons could have changed his entire course of action.

It's funny how in AGOT, Varys was giving every detail about Viserys and Dany, telling Robert she was pregnant. Suddenly Dany has 3 dragons and he clams up about it? There could be more at play than simply getting Aegon on the throne for Varys, I could believe it.

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Word about dragons reaches Quarth before Mormont does - remember the blood rider turns up in Quarthe and then brings back dignitaries to visit Daenerys in her white city in the red waste. News is probably getting out before Daenerys arrives in Quarth.

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This is seriously the problem with Varys. When you look beyond the plot he has with Illyrio, everything lends itself to becoming a crackpot.

:agree:

If I had a nickel for every "Varys is behind everything that ever happened in Westeros...ever" post.

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:agree:

If I had a nickel for every "Varys is behind everything that ever happened in Westeros...ever" post.

lol, yea, just to be clear, I don't think that's the case, and I was joking above his working for Bloodraven (mostly joking- the idea makes me laugh for some reason). I think there's plenty worth discussion in terms of Varys' endgame without diving into the magic, which is so speculative at this point that it's potentially unproductive and crackpotty.

With that said, I do happen to think Varys does believe in magic and is aware to some extent of the song of ice and fire. I was trying to tease out that magic stuff earlier, because I think it's worth noting that fire isn't the only type of magic, and that if Varys does believe in some capacity or has some connection to it in some way, he need not be necessarily aligned with the Red side of things, which is food for thought if he simply lied about which type of magic he hated to Tyrion.

I do happen to think there is something curious about the fact that Varys' is referred to in similar terms that Bloodraven was for doing similar things at court (intelligence gathering and the like), that Varys calls his children "birds," that Varys cites "the children" as his motivation, and appeals to "the realm" as his mission. Before I get shot for saying this, I think there's a good literary reason for this parallel that doesn't necessitate there being a literal connection between these two. I think Tze was getting at this in an earlier post, but it could simply point to Varys as a pale imitation of Bloodraven, who is the supreme mastermind behind it all. The comparison could simply be there as a way of elevating this other character. I think this is actually a really interesting avenue to explore that doesn't necessarily have to led to crackpot territory.

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Is it possible that Littlefinger was Cersei's source, not Varys? (I'm not making an argument either way---I'm just wondering (off the top of my head) if it's a possibility.) One of the things I've always found striking is how Cersei, the Empress of Paranoia, who sees schemes in basically everything, somehow never seems to consider distrusting Littlefinger during her descent into batshitedness in AFFC. And from what I can see, Littlefinger's (known) actions should have been pinging her paranoia radar pretty drastically---he publicly led the negotiations that brought the hated Tyrells to King's Landing, he offered to marry the hated Sansa, etc. Is the reason that Cersei doesn't see anything amiss with Littlefinger due to her belief that he's on her side due to some service he did for her in the past? And if so, could that "service" have had to do with Robert's bastards? That it was the gold cloaks who were sent after Gendry, given that we know the gold cloaks were in Littlefinger's pocket, might be a hint that Littlefinger, not Varys, was the one involved in all this.

Out of sight, out of mind?

Littlefinger being geographically removed from Kings Landing seems to have put him out of a lot of people's minds. Cersei also has reason to be grateful to Littlefinger (to a degree) because he has placated the Vale for the Lannisters and "removed" a potentially hostile region. She also seems to think he'll have enough on his hands trying to deal with the Lords Declarant, so it's like it never strikes her LF was plotting against her and various others before.

It also seems LF's pinning of the blame for Joffrey onto Tyrion has been extremely successful. Together with Maggy the Frog's prophecy, Cersei is so focused on Tyrion being the culprit that she cannot really shift gears and look at another taking his place as the main perpetrator. A lot of the more hysterical paranoia she shows in AFFC seems to be linked to Maggy the Frog (the younger and more beautiful queen, the valonquar).

EDIT: also butterbumps! *loved* your Varys and LF analysis. Really great stuff. :)

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lol, yea, just to be clear, I don't think that's the case, and I was joking above his working for Bloodraven (mostly joking- the idea makes me laugh for some reason). I think there's plenty worth discussion in terms of Varys' endgame without diving into the magic, which is so speculative at this point that it's potentially unproductive and crackpotty.

With that said, I do happen to think Varys does believe in magic and is aware to some extent of the song of ice and fire. I was trying to tease out that magic stuff earlier, because I think it's worth noting that fire isn't the only type of magic, and that if Varys does believe in some capacity or has some connection to it in some way, he need not be necessarily aligned with the Red side of things, which is food for thought if he simply lied about which type of magic he hated to Tyrion.

I do happen to think there is something curious about the fact that Varys' is referred to in similar terms that Bloodraven was for doing similar things at court (intelligence gathering and the like), that Varys calls his children "birds," that Varys cites "the children" as his motivation, and appeals to "the realm" as his mission. Before I get shot for saying this, I think there's a good literary reason for this parallel that doesn't necessitate there being a literal connection between these two. I think Tze was getting at this in an earlier post, but it could simply point to Varys as a pale imitation of Bloodraven, who is the supreme mastermind behind it all. The comparison could simply be there as a way of elevating this other character. I think this is actually a really interesting avenue to explore that doesn't necessarily have to led to crackpot territory.

Haha! Yeah, I was (for the most part) joking, too; but there are quite a few who see Varys's shadowy hand behind everything that happens in ASoIaF (though I'm completely aware that you're not one of them).

I agree that there are some very interesting parallels between Bloodraven and Varys; both outsiders (one a bastard-born albino, the other a foreign eunuch), both never wholly loved (despite their high positions at court), and both accused of sorcery and magic (though Bloodraven is confirmed to us readers as having actual "supernatural" powers). And it's still not fully clear what their endgames are in ASoIaF. And yeah, I think Varys is a believer in magic of some kind, though I'm not sure what it is.

A "Varys/Bloodraven" comparison thread might be cool once we get more info on Bloodraven.

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lol, yea, just to be clear, I don't think that's the case, and I was joking above his working for Bloodraven (mostly joking- the idea makes me laugh for some reason). I think there's plenty worth discussion in terms of Varys' endgame without diving into the magic, which is so speculative at this point that it's potentially unproductive and crackpotty.

With that said, I do happen to think Varys does believe in magic and is aware to some extent of the song of ice and fire. I was trying to tease out that magic stuff earlier, because I think it's worth noting that fire isn't the only type of magic, and that if Varys does believe in some capacity or has some connection to it in some way, he need not be necessarily aligned with the Red side of things, which is food for thought if he simply lied about which type of magic he hated to Tyrion.

Varys must be aware of wildlings causing trouble beyond the Wall, since Mormont sent letters asking for men. And Alliser Thorne brought the wight's hand to court, so Varys knows other things are stirring as well... maybe he'll keep on paddling even after Others come and go :laugh:

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I agree, this is a great thread.

LF and Varys are two of my favorite characters, and I love to read about them.

My sentiments exactly. Awful people who, in real life, should've been jailed for life (or excecuted) for their transgressions but I can't wait to read about what they're up to next two novels.

I pray to the Old Gods that Martin doesn't kill them off in WoW. With them gone the story would get boring I suspect, as they seem to drive things.

We know that they shouldn't have trusted him. The question is, did they — without the benefit of knowing what we know — have a reason to think he was unreliable? It seems like Varys gave them just enough reliable information for them to deem him reliable. He's not an idiot — he has to know that if his quality of intel goes down the crapper, they'll get rid of him. His plan relies on him having some sort of power hold in the capital and he'll do what he has to do maintain that; namely, convince the new regime that he's actually working for them in good faith.

Varys actually has a pretty bad rep amongst the nobility and even the smallfolk who are totally ignorant in politics. One of the bigger mysteries to me is that all POV (and non-POV) characters (initially) say they don't trust Varys (or LF for that matter) but in the end they end up working with them regardless.

I don't think I actually disagree with yours that much (other than the self-made man aspect), but I'm not sure that I see LF's desire for Cat and Sansa the way you do. I don't think this is one of those "pure as the driven snow" love stories regarding either lady. I actually believe that Tyrion is correct when he says "the only person LF has ever loved is LF." I think that Cat is a token and that Sansa is little more than a pawn to him.

Varys has said this as well.

And they´re not wrong. His lust for Cat comes over to me as something he feels entitles to, not because he was deeply in love with. He probably loved the idea that he married into the Tullys as much as he lusted for her.

In other words, he's like Bob Baratheon in a way, who loved the idea Lyanna Stark more then the woman he actually knew (or was). He was in love with a fictional person - and so is LF in loving Cat.

For the rest we probably agree yes, apart from the self-made man part.

Varys is pretty clearly a horrendously immoral guy. He is behind untold misery and strife in the 7 kingdoms.

What I'm personally curious to read more about is his role during Bob's rebellion. Why did Varys "poison" Aerys' ears about Rhaegar (this indicates he was plotting against the Targs), and why did he then advise Aerys not to open the KL gates to Tywin (this indicates he wanted Aerys alive)?

Once we have more info on that his (future) actions is going to be much more clear to us.

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