redriver Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 When Mance agrees to rescue "Arya" he requests some of the spearwives penned up in Mole's Town.In Jon's next chapter he reflects on having loosed Mance and six spearwives on the north."Young ones,and pretty," Mance had said.The unburnt king supplied some names,and Dolorous Ed had done the rest,smuggling them out of Mole's Town".So the spearwives were chosen by name for youthfulness and prettiness.But Mance turns up at Winterfell as Abel the bard with,"Two sisters,two daughters,one wife,and my old mother."I posted this in a thread in the Dance section,but maybe we'll get some more ideas here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djinn Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I always read it as supplying for every fantasy logic. Each spearwife was of a different ''type'' to maximize the chances of sucess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic 8 Ball Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 And by passing one of them off as his "old mother", it was obvious to everyone, even Reek that he was a pander (read : pimp) passing himself off as a musician.The lie was obvious, but making himself not just a "passable" singer, but also a pimp, made the men at Winterfell all the more likely to let him into their midst.He never expected anyone to believe that one of them was his "old mother", it was an obvious lie in order to get admitted without question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redriver Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 I always read it as supplying for every fantasy logic. Each spearwife was of a different ''type'' to maximize the chances of sucess.Maybe it is,but then why did Mance say young and pretty in the first place?When Theon is confronted by the three washerwomen in the godswood,he asks,"What do you want?""You," said the third washerwoman,an older woman,deep voiced,with grey streaks in her hair. This turns out to be Myrtle.I accept that bringing different types would have been a good idea,but someone who is old enough to pass as Mance's mother,gaunt,with grey hair and a deep voice is stretching it a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Might it be simply that Mance would've preferred young, pretty ones but had to make due with what was there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic 8 Ball Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Yeah well...Girls from the wrong side of the tracks (wildlings) are often pretty when young, but usually go to hell in a handbasket at a young age.Maybe Myrtle was 24, but it was the best they could do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redriver Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 Might it be simply that Mance would've preferred young, pretty ones but had to make due with what was there?He supplied the names though.So he knew what was there.I'm thinking he may have met someone on the journey to Winterfell and adjusted the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djinn Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Considering the crowd(Ramsay, Whoresbane,etc), it's good to have options. Besides, pretty among the wildings is a vey slippery slope(Val is freak of nature). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I sort of see the point but to be honest I don't think this is worth the hair-splitting. And if five of the six are "young and pretty," I think that qualifies as "young pretty ones" in a "meh, close enough" sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Maybe Mance has a thing for older women? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redriver Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 Maybe Mance has a thing for older women?What if it's an older man?The Mance is not a pervert.A bit kinky,maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayard Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Would have Ygritte made this 6 women list??? probably :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King.In.Yellow Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Some men like milves (plural of milf, compare to dwarf/dwarves and wolf/wolves). I like milves. My girlfriend is 13 years my senior. Would it be an overstretch to assume that at least several of the many men at Winterfell will as well? Ramsay did marry Lady Hornwood. Sure, it was for her lands and money, but that's a legitimate facet of attractiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I think that the OP was not making a point of "Why whould he take a not so pretty and young woman?", but a point of "We're explicitly told they were all young and pretty when they were smuggled out". I remember reading the original post inm the Dance section a while ago and in the context it kind of made sense.Redriver, can you remind me of what were the speculations of Myrtle's possible identity if she is not really who she is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redriver Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 I think that the OP was not making a point of "Why whould he take a not so pretty and young woman?", but a point of "We're explicitly told they were all young and pretty when they were smuggled out". I remember reading the original post inm the Dance section a while ago and in the context it kind of made sense.Redriver, can you remind me of what were the speculations of Myrtle's possible identity if she is not really who she is?I'm thinking someone like the Liddle.Mance and co have to pass through Liddle territory and it's quite possible they met up.The Liddle showed a great deal of knowledge about events in the North and the Wall in the Bran encounter.He may have put Mance in the picture regarding the "Arya" deception in Winterfell.So Mance changed the plan to either expose fake Arya or rescue the real one in WF,whichever it is.The Liddle revealed his sadness at the lack of Starks in WF,and the presence of Boltons (and squids).I suggest the Liddle replaced one of the original spearwives,to help Mance with his plan and sow discord within WF.Mance has first hand experience of "men seeing what they want to see",and if they expect to see his "old mother"........then they do.I really don't think Martin would be careless in his descriptions,they differ by design.The bottom line is I suggest Myrtle is a man.Who or why is open to speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 What I take from this is that Mance was lying when he said "young and pretty". He supplied the names and knew what he was asking for. They were from Moletown, not the Wall. Were they seen in the flesh before starting for Winterfell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 What I take from this is that Mance was lying when he said "young and pretty". He supplied the names and knew what he was asking for. They were from Moletown, not the Wall. Were they seen in the flesh before starting for Winterfell?Why would he lie about that? I mean, if 5 out of 6 were pretty, yes, he could say that they are all young and pretty. But "lying" implies he's doing it for a reason. What is the reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redriver Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 What I take from this is that Mance was lying when he said "young and pretty". He supplied the names and knew what he was asking for. They were from Moletown, not the Wall. Were they seen in the flesh before starting for Winterfell?They were "smuggled" from Mole's Town to Castle Black.Rattleshirt "provided some names,Dolorous Ed did the rest."This suggests that the spearwives were exactly who Mance requested by name,and that yes they did leave from Castle Black.Jon asks Mel for word about Rattleshirt and the spearwives in his last chapter of ADWD.This suggests Mance left glamored as Rattleshirt,as far as the witnesses at Castle Black are concerned.But not unprecedented as Jon had already sent the Wildling,Val,on a mission.And why would Mance be lying anyway?What's the point?Ask for four pretty and two ugly spearwives,if that's what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Ask for four pretty and two ugly spearwives,if that's what you want.Or just say the names and omit the appearance, it is irrelevant information anyway.This being said, he could've said all young and pretty even if they were not exactly "all" without giving much thought and without this meaning anything. But just because the info is given, and then a certain spearwive is described differently. It is kind of odd.Also, the guy with the stuffed manhood in his mouth. I mean, I always found it as unnecessarily cruel, especially when the spearwives are posing as prostitutes, being all seductive and stuff. It was weird to me, really. This cruelty could somehow be explained if the woman that the soldier was trying to have his way with was actually a man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summer is Ending Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Problem with Myrtle being a man is most men in the books have very wandering hands when it comes to serving women and especially 'washerwomen'. It's only going to take one grope for bells to start going off and she spent enough time around the men that it happened.This is what he says originally,And this is nothing I can do alone. Some of the spearwives penned up at Mole’s Town should serve. Women would be best for this. The girl’s more like to trust them, and they will help me carry off a certain ploy I have in mind.”I'm thinking Squirrel was chosen less for her looks than her talents in climbing, it's just as likely Myrtle was chosen for her own particular reason. Just because Mance wanted at least a few young and pretty enough to run some interference doesn't mean Martin is going to spell it out 'young and pretty... except for her her and her because I want to do this that and the other thing.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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