Starting to think Jon Conn might know about Jon Snow true identity..

[Stannis 4 Prez]

Hmm this is very interesting to me. Makes me think of a typical cop-show line when a suspicious piece of evidence shows. "Could be nothing. Could be everything".

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Rhaegar sent word across the narrow sea to Jon telling him Lyanna was pregnant. It would then be easy for him to figure out that Jon was that child after.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I'm with people who think it doesn't really mean anything and is a formality.

And Jon was not named for Jon Connington.

1. The Rhaegar/Connington "relarionship" was extremely one-sided. Jon might have loved Rhaegar but I don't see anything suggesting that it was reciprocated.

2. GRRM has already said that Ned named Jon.

And #1, by the way, is the reason I don't think Jon Conn knows anything about Jon Snow. People are overblowing Jon's importance to Rhaegar by just assuming that it was on the same level as Rhaegar's importance to Jon, and I see nothing showing that it was.

[Sweet-N-SourRobin]

I think it'd be hilarious and/or classic irony if he knows that Jon Snow is actually Rhaegar Targaryen's son (or at least that there is another Rhaegar Targaryen son out there and that Jon Snow could be/likely is it, since Lyanna Stark was the mother) but doesn't know that Aegon VI is a Blackfyre imposter and actually NOT Rhaegar Targaryen's son (and that Varys has been duping him/exploiting his guilt and unrequited crush).

Love this theory. On Board.

Him actually being named after Connington instead of Arryn would be a nice wrinkle, except I get the impression from the tone of Connington's memories that the Rhaegar/Connington connection was a one way relationship. Rhaegar meant the world to Jon but Jon was just another guy to Rhaegar, so Jon probably wasn't important enough to Rhaegar for him to name The Prince That Was Promised after him. Otherwise it's a very good idea (and who knows, maybe we'll get more info later that reveals Jon meant more to Rhaegar than I currently think he did).

Further thought: Way back when, Benjen Stark cautioned Jon against taking the black at so young an age because "you don't know what you're giving up yet." Now, Benjen clearly means girls. But it'd be interesting if this was also foreshadowing of/referring to Jon's True Lineage. I wouldn't be surprised if it eventually comes out that there's a legal precedent for Secret Heirs getting out of the NW vows if/when Their True Lineage -- genuinely not known about when they took the black -- comes out. For the Royal Line at least if not in general. Hell, Maester Aemon even tells Jon of a couple instances where people tried to get him off the wall/out of the citadel to use as an alternate contender for the throne, and Aemon DID know he was a Targ before he took the chain and the black.

More legally sound, perhaps, than "yeah technically I died so my watch is over even though I'm clearly still alive and everybody knows you can't come back from the dead so this obviously sounds like self-serving bullshit to any sane pair of ears."

[Aerys Blackfyre]

R+L = J you know nothing Jon Con!

[Dr. Pepper]

1. The Rhaegar/Connington "relarionship" was extremely one-sided. Jon might have loved Rhaegar but I don't see anything suggesting that it was reciprocated.

Yeah, I was scratching my head over this idea that Jon Con and Rhaegar were besties. Just because Rhaegar was Jon C's silver prince doesn't mean the feeling was mutual. Remarks have been made about Rhaegar's friendship with Dayne, but I can't recall anyone talking about Rhaegar's friendship with JC (other than JC himself).

[King Jonboy]

Maybe Martin accidentally wrote that as he knows raegar had another son....Jon.

[Jon Icefyre]

Yeah, I was scratching my head over this idea that Jon Con and Rhaegar were besties. Just because Rhaegar was Jon C's silver prince doesn't mean the feeling was mutual. Remarks have been made about Rhaegar's friendship with Dayne, but I can't recall anyone talking about Rhaegar's friendship with JC (other than JC himself).

That's not true In ADWD when Tyrion figures out who JC and Aegon really are he say's something along the lines of "Who better to raise Rhaegar's son than his close friend Jon Conn." So obviously people in the realm knew/thought they were close because Tyrion was still a child at the time of Robert's rebellion. Which means someone told him JC was a close friend of Rhaegars or he read it somewhere.

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

They were friends, Jon Con just wanted more is all. I didn't give these words much thought at the time...but since I believe Septa Lemore Is Ashara Dayne & that she must have known about Jon before she faked her death, I suppose it's possible.

[Jon Icefyre]

They were friends, Jon Con just wanted more is all. I didn't give these words much thought at the time...but since I believe Septa Lemore Is Ashara Dayne & that she must have known about Jon before she faked her death, I suppose it's possible.

I completely forgot about the Ashara dayne = Septa Lemore theory very good point if she is indeed Lemore

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

That's not true In ADWD when Tyrion figures out who JC and Aegon really are he say's something along the lines of "Who better to raise Rhaegar's son than his close friend Jon Conn." So obviously people in the realm knew/thought they were close because Tyrion was still a child at the time of Robert's rebellion. Which means someone told him JC was a close friend of Rhaegars or he read it somewhere.

They ran in the same crowd and Jon Connington was an ex-Hand of the King, so he had ties to the Targaryen government apart from just being friends with Rhaegar. But as for them being totes BFFs to the point where Jon would know Jon Snow's identity despite being already exiled by then, I don't see that at all and I think that's one-sided on the part of Jon Connington.

[Ingelheim]

I completely forgot about the Ashara dayne = Septa Lemore theory very good point if she is indeed Lemore

But Ashara was absolutely beatiful, and Lemore is atractive, but not pretty. And his eyes were purples, I think. That are the only problems I see with that theory.

[Black Crow]

I'm with the formal introductions. Its just a pretty straightforward way of referring to an heir, just as you often get references in parish registers to so and so "lawful son of" whoever. All that the "lawful" bit means is that his parents were properly married, and that he's therefore legitimate rather than illegitimate, but its important to note that its a standard form of words and that use of them doesn't automatically imply that one or both parents also has illegitimate children.

Likewise, in Scotland at least, it was standard practice in recording baptisms to name a child as the lawful son or daughter of both named parents - say James Grant and Margaret Urquhart - who were married incidentally

In this case therefore Aegon is named as the first born son and therefore heir of both named parents - as distinct from the son of Rhaegar. Its just the "proper" way of doing things.

[Jon Icefyre]

But Ashara was absolutely beatiful, and Lemore is atractive, but not pretty. And his eyes were purples, I think. That are the only problems I see with that theory.

Well GRRM never actually says what color Lemore's eyes are which could be GRRM not wanting to give away too much as the connection with Ashara Dayne would be way to obvious if he said the Septa's eyes were purple...but he also can't lie to us about her eye color so he just chooses not to describe them at all. Whenever GRRM explains the looks of a character in the series he almost always describes the eyes yet for some reason he didn't with Septa Lemore? Suspicious to say the least.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I'm with the formal introductions. Its just a pretty straightforward way of referring to an heir, just as you often get references in parish registers to so and so "lawful son of" whoever. All that the "lawful" bit means is that his parents were properly married, and that he's therefore legitimate rather than illegitimate, but its important to note that its a standard form of words and that use of them doesn't automatically imply that one or both parents also has illegitimate children.

Likewise, in Scotland at least, it was standard practice in recording baptisms to name a child as the lawful son or daughter of both named parents - say James Grant and Margaret Urquhart - who were married incidentally

In this case therefore Aegon is named as the first born son and therefore heir of both named parents - as distinct from the son of Rhaegar. Its just the "proper" way of doing things.

This is probably the best explanation in this thread so far. It's fun to think about but ultimately people are reading way too much into it.

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

But Ashara was absolutely beatiful, and Lemore is atractive, but not pretty. And his eyes were purples, I think. That are the only problems I see with that theory.

This isn't a Ashara=Lemore thread so I will answer this once & hope the conversation goes back the way it's suppose to. Ashara was described as "fair" not "beautiful", that means she was pretty, & she also had a great personality, a few years & a slightly less that easy life later, she could easily meet the description of Lemore. & since JI got to the point about her eyes before I did, I'll go away now.

[Jon Icefyre]

This is probably the best explanation in this thread so far. It's fun to think about but ultimately people are reading way too much into it.

We'll see soon enough

[Peko]

The 'firstborn' son can probably likened to the whole 'first of his name' that follows kings' names in their introductions. We've heard "King Tommen, the first of his name" several times, yet that does not mean there is a "King Tommen, the second of his name" and so forth.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

We'll see soon enough

I'm curious as to how Jon Connington could possibly know Jon's real identity when he had already been exiled by the time Jon was born and had been for at least a few months. Even if he might have some idea of Rhaegar having another child — and I see nothing showing that he does, not even in his own thoughts — there's nothing that would allow him to make the connection to Jon Snow specifically.

[Jon Icefyre]

I'm curious as to how Jon Connington could possibly know Jon's real identity when he had already been exiled by the time Jon was born and had been for at least a few months. Even if he might have some idea of Rhaegar having another child — and I see nothing showing that he does, not even in his own thoughts — there's nothing that would allow him to make the connection to Jon Snow specifically.

Septa Lemore = Ashara Dayne is an example of how JC knows Jon Snow's identity as Ashara would know everything that took place at the TOJ considering she was probably the one who told Ned where Rhaegar and Lyanna were hiding. We haven't had that many JC pov's yet so the fact that it hasn't been mentioned in his thoughts means nothing to me. Stop acting like JC has been a POV character for all 5 books they just added him in the last book and he had like 3 pov chapters in case you forgot. Maybe GRRM is saving a lot of info on JC's deep thoughts for the next two books. Why tell everything there is to know about JC in ADWD??

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Septa Lemore = Ashara Dayne is an example of how JC knows Jon Snow's identity as Ashara would know everything that took place at the TOJ considering she was probably the one who told Ned where Rhaegar and Lyanna were hiding. We haven't had that many JC pov's yet so the fact that it hasn't been mentioned in his thoughts means nothing to me. Stop acting like JC has been a POV character for all 5 books they just added him in the last book and he had like 3 pov chapters in case you forgot. Maybe GRRM is saving a lot of info on JC's deep thoughts for the next two books. Why tell everything there is to know about JC in ADWD??

Calm down and get out of your snit, please. It's extremely unbecoming.

Black Crow has already, very politely and patiently, replied to you to show that such wording is a very normal ceremonial way of wording an anouncement, and probably doesn't mean anything.

I'm also not sold on Lemore being Ashara, but even if she is, I don't see any reason why she'd tell Connington about Jon's identity.