butterbumps! Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I wonder what is the worst crime. To break your oath and leave the Wall or stay at the Wall and leave your sister in the hands of Ramsey Snow. Plus also leave the North in the hands of Ramsey.I like to see it as fighting the same battle, tbh. The NW can't effectively do what they're supposed to be doing with the Boltons on the loose and the resultant chaos this causes (and as an aside, I kind of suspect that the Boltons are tied to the Others in some capacity). By taking out the problems in the North and rallying, I think it's the best thing anyone could really do for the NW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sworn Shield Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 IIRC in that dream wasn't Jon wielding Longclaw and not some other fancy sword.Edit:Yes in the dream he did wield Longclaw."I am the Lord of Winterfell" Jon screamed. It was Robb before him now, his hair wet with melting snow. Longclaw took his head off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis the Wight Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 It's ok guys we only need to wait another 2-3 years to possibly get some answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sworn Shield Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Alas it might be longer than that. GRRM wrote this on his blog recently.Commenter: Was also excited to see the comment (yours??) that WOW is about half way completed? Looking forward to updates here or at your website. GRRM: Unfortunately, that's a misquote. I am working on WINDS, but it is nowhere near half done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Gathers Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 GRRM: Unfortunately, that's a misquote. I am working on WINDS, but it is nowhere near half done.Although, if it turns out Winds is around 1,500 pages, then he's basically done with half compared to the other books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 GRRM: Unfortunately, that's a misquote. I am working on WINDS, but it is nowhere near half done. :bawl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis the Wight Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Alas it might be longer than that. GRRM wrote this on his blog recently.Commenter: Was also excited to see the comment (yours??) that WOW is about half way completed? Looking forward to updates here or at your website. GRRM: Unfortunately, that's a misquote. I am working on WINDS, but it is nowhere near half done.With the amount of events that have to be covered in this book I'm not surprised. I think this will be the longest book to date and it will need to cover a larger span of time, I just hope GRRM doesn't get lost in his own creation. It has become so big and with his writing style I can see this book easily being 1,500+ pages. About 500 of those pages will solely be descriptive text about locations, food, people and their attire.Back on topic though, the Glovers, Mormonts, Manderlys and Alys Karstark I think know a little more than they have revealed. Jon's "death" will absolve him from his role as LC and duties with the NW. When he wakes up from his coma I don't think anyone will be left at Castle Black, hence his dream. Maybe a handful of people, Satin perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Baratheon Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 If I can't have my homeboy Stannis on the Iron Throne, at least I can have my homeboy Jon as King in the North (King of the First Men?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Manderly's wording to Davos is "Bring me my liege lord, and I will swear to Stannis."Well, if he knows that Jon is his liege lord, then Davos could bring back Rickon, and Manderly would be able to hold to his end of the bargain without having to bend to Stannis, as the Stark that Davos brought back is not Manderly's true liege lord. Jon is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWizard Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Apple MartiniTHE KING OF THE BOARDS THE KING OF THE BOARDS :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:Edit: Come to think of it i think you have mentioned before that your a female soooo yeah King,Queen whatever you get the point :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacker Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 So can unJons have babies?Just thinking of the future of Dragons in the north. Somehow they don't seem to fit in with the climate in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 If there is a resurrection I would expect something mirroring Dany's rebirth via Pyre with Melisandre playing the part of MMD, than an 'Un'. It fits the symmetry of their arcs much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironkiller Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I can't see things going well if Jon steal Rickon's heritage... Robb only legitimized Jon because he thought that Rickon and Bran were dead, and I DEFINETLY can't see Jon screwing up his brother if he knows he is alive.Also, if the northman betray Stannis, I hope Danny goes there with dragons and burn the whole kingdom to the ground. Betraying your savior? NOT COOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna Stark Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Loving the northern conspiracy! I really can't find any flaw in the logic and looking at the larger political picture, it makes sense.Also, I feel compelled to add that all of Jon's advice to Stannis — which people to approach, which places to avoid, which places to hit first, how to get around, which families align with whom, etc. — just compounds to show that hey, the kid knows his shit and would probably be a very good King in the North.Now, anyone who knows me knows that I love Stannis. But without Jon's advice, Stannis would have marched to the Dreadfort, and probably would've gotten obliterated and/or walked into a trap. Without Jon's advice, Stannis doesn't get the mountain clans, and doesn't relieve Deepwood Motte.Without Jon's advice, Stannis is, as we say in the motherland, gefickt.This was something that really stood out in the Learning to Lead thread, how Jon was advicing Stannis and how Jon knew his way around the north. So even if the formal power relation was that Stannis was of higher rank, Jon actually took on the role as the one doing the decisive thinking, while Stannis followed his lead and did what Jon told him. In effect, Jon was the real leader here.Since I think it's clear the North will never bend to Stannis, will Stannis be able to bend to a Targaryen again? Stannis did go north to save the realm, but can he put the realm before his own claim to the throne once more, if Jon proves to have a legitimate claim as Rhaegar's son, and the military might to back up his words with the full support of the North (at the very least, the Riverlands and the Vale should be ripe for turning their allegiance towards the north, too)?If there is a resurrection I would expect something mirroring Dany's rebirth via Pyre with Melisandre playing the part of MMD, than an 'Un'. It fits the symmetry of their arcs much better.I agree, and I read a theory a long time ago that Jon may have a similar "pyre" moment. Obviously, Targaryens aren't fireproof, but in cases where magic is somehow used, it seems to be able to shield someone from excessive damage at least. Dany's hair got burnt off, but she was fine. Should magic be used for Jon's "resurrection", Red God style, then that should provide enough magic (magical energy? magical potential? I can't help but think about it as physics, with a unit, like Joule or Watts attached) to enable Jon be leave a pyre scenario alive and not burnt to cinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentyn Baratheon Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 This was something that really stood out in the Learning to Lead thread, how Jon was advicing Stannis and how Jon knew his way around the north. So even if the formal power relation was that Stannis was of higher rank, Jon actually took on the role as the one doing the decisive thinking, while Stannis followed his lead and did what Jon told him. In effect, Jon was the real leader here.Since I think it's clear the North will never bend to Stannis, will Stannis be able to bend to a Targaryen again? Stannis did go north to save the realm, but can he put the realm before his own claim to the throne once more, if Jon proves to have a legitimate claim as Rhaegar's son, and the military might to back up his words with the full support of the North (at the very least, the Riverlands and the Vale should be ripe for turning their allegiance towards the north, too)?That's increasingly sound like those cheesy fanfic written by some fanboy of a specific character. I hope it doesn't go that way.My guess is that northmen's plan, whatever they are, will go awry because Stannis will die anyway. Oh, not in the Battle of Winterfell. He'll put back a Good Guy Stark there (treacherous, vicious, borderline northmen are only good for Stark's bannermen), once it's done, he'll go down. Maybe even quicker than everybody expects, like BEFORE the Wall fell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna Stark Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 That's increasingly sound like those cheesy fanfic written by some fanboy of a specific character. I hope it doesn't go that way.You mean the statement that Stannis did go north to save the realm? Or that he could potentially bend the knee to Jon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Jon will not steal Rickon's heritage. He will be King in the North for a short time, before becoming King of the Realm and giving the North back to Rickon.In other words, he will be revealed as Robb's heir in Winds of Winter, but will only be revealed as Rhaegar's son in Dream of Spring. There is a set chronology to it which means it all fits together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentyn Baratheon Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 You mean the statement that Stannis did go north to save the realm? Or that he could potentially bend the knee to Jon?Stannis bending the knee for the greater good being Jon, because he's Rhaegar's son.Just....please no.ETA: Stannis bending the knee will never happen, he'll die or live a king. Jon saving the day because he's rhaegar's son. Please no. He'll save the day by his hard work, please no more bullshit with destiny hero and whatnot prophecy, there's work to do. Someone has to deal with the shit and stop bragging how cool his lineage and his wizard is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWizard Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Stannis bending the knee for the greater good being Jon, because he's Rhaegar's son.Just....please no.I agree I love Stannis but its like people forget who the guy is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I think you guys forget who Stannis is. He will bend the knee to Jon not for the greater good, but because Jon has the better claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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