Iron Throne succession question... [maybe spoilers]

[Lion of Judah]

There is a legal conflict as well. Robert's will proclaims Joffrey as his heir, Tommen takes that place in light of his death. Stannis has been attainted because he invoked his claim on the basis that Roberts children are not trueborn or of his blood. However he has not renounced his claim, I'm not sure what the legal precedence is, but it can only be settled one of 2 ways. Through the justice system (the high sparrow) or war.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

Yes, the succession line needs to be someone with Baratheon blood, but if Tommen (not a Baratheon of course) dies and Myrcella also dies, which Baratheon we have beyond Stannis?

I think if the succession line extinguish, the closer family can sit in the Iron Throne, Lannister is the closer family to the royal family

[ab aeterno]

There is a legal conflict as well. Robert's will proclaims Joffrey as his heir, Tommen takes that place in light of his death. Stannis has been attainted because he invoked his claim on the basis that Roberts children are not trueborn or of his blood. However he has not renounced his claim, I'm not sure what the legal precedence is, but it can only be settled one of 2 ways. Through the justice system (the high sparrow) or war.

Doesn't Ned alter the will to just say "my heir?" I can't remember specifically... Also, Cersei tore up the will and executed the regent so it is irrelevant as far as the crown is concerned. :P

[Lion of Judah]

Doesn't Ned alter the will to just say "my heir?" I can't remember specifically... Also, Cersei tore up the will and executed the regent so it is irrelevant as far as the crown is concerned. :P

Yes he did, when Robert mentioned Ned being the steward until Joffrey was ready Ned didn't put Joffrey's name. But that document was tossed and never brought into consideration.

[Vuron]

Yes, the succession line needs to be a someone with Baratheon blood, but if Tommen (not a Baratheon of course) dies and Myrcella also dies, which Baratheon we have beyond Stannis?

I think if the succession line extinguish, the closer family can sit in the Iron Throne, Lannister is the closer family to the royal family

The Lannisters have 0 claim on the Iron Throne. There is no such thing as "closer family to the royal family".

This gets discussed after every book. I can't find the old posts, but IIRC, the line reverts back to the Targs due to them being cousins of the Baratheons. This relationship is what enabled the Baratheon line to take the crown in the first place, instead of Ned or someone else taking control after the war.

[mcb]

There's no scenario where Stannis is the heir. If we follow the official Lannister version of history, then Stannis, by making a grab at the crown, committed high treason and thus forfeited his place in the succession line, his lands, titles, life, and whatnot. Hence, they will sooner look for some distant third cousin of Bob's (he's bound to have some other relatives) instead of allowing Stannis on the throne. Or, alternatively, they'll consider the Baratheon dynasty officially out.

If we follow the blood and the rules of succession, Stannis isn't heir, either - he's the king.

And if you ask Dany, they all are the Usurper's dogs anyway.

Pick one of those. There isn't, however, an option "sorry, Uncle Stannis, you're no traitor, we were just goofing about".

[Buckwheat]

Better safe than sorry. :P To be entirely fair, assuming that it were true, 'sacrifice one child to save the entire world,' is quite a compelling argument.

It is. It is exactly what Varys said about Dany and what Eddard was fighting against.

Yes, the succession line needs to be someone with Baratheon blood, but if Tommen (not a Baratheon of course) dies and Myrcella also dies, which Baratheon we have beyond Stannis?

I think if the succession line extinguish, the closer family can sit in the Iron Throne, Lannister is the closer family to the royal family

The closest Baratheon relatives on the male side are Targaryens. Lannisters have absolutely no claim to the throne just because the former king's wife came from that family.

Doesn't Ned alter the will to just say "my heir?" I can't remember specifically... Also, Cersei tore up the will and executed the regent so it is irrelevant as far as the crown is concerned. :P

I think that Joffrey was Robert's heir even without Robert's will.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

The Lannisters have 0 claim on the Iron Throne. There is no such thing as "closer family to the royal family".

This gets discussed after every book. I can't find the old posts, but IIRC, the line reverts back to the Targs due to them being cousins of the Baratheons. This relationship is what enabled the Baratheon line to take the crown in the first place, instead of Ned or someone else taking control after the war.

So the heir is Aegon (but they don't know he's alive

would they try to call Daenerys home?

I still think the Lannister would take the throne with a trick or something

Lannister are trickers, they would do anything to stay as rulers (Westeros is being ruled by Lannisters since the beggining of the saga!

[Tony Soprano]

By law, Joffrey and the Lannisers usurped the Iron Throne, which should have fallen to Stannis, as Robert's younger brother.

But, no one believed Stannis' allegations that Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella aren't Robert's children. And the few that thought that it could be true, didn't do anything for fear of what might happened to them, or they just simply didn't want Stannis on the throne.

So, if Tommen dies, Myrcella would be heir. And Stannis would still be seen as a traitor and a rebel. :bang:

[Vuron]

So the heir is Aegon (but they don't know he's alive

would they try to call Daenerys home?

I still think the Lannister would take the throne with a trick or something

Lannister are trickers, they would do anything to stay as rulers (Westeros is being ruled by Lannisters since the beggining of the saga!

Well, they can't really "trick" Westeros into a new royal family. The lines of succession are usually well known, even if they do get a little muddied. It could be possible for them to name Dany as the heir, knowing that she is on the other side of the world, and rule through a Regent.

The faith might be talked into declaring Dany dead, a heretic, unfit, or whatever, leaving no heirs and causing all hell to break lose.

[ab aeterno]

I think that Joffrey was Robert's heir even without Robert's will.

I agree. I was responding to this:

"There is a legal conflict as well. Robert's will proclaims Joffrey as his heir..."

[Buckwheat]

So the heir is Aegon (but they don't know he's alive

would they try to call Daenerys home?

I still think the Lannister would take the throne with a trick or something

Lannister are trickers, they would do anything to stay as rulers (Westeros is being ruled by Lannisters since the beggining of the saga!

No, they would not call a girl who never lived in Westeros and who might or might not have three dragons in her possession to Westeros to make her queen.

Aegon's claim is not even believed by the book readers, I guess everybody will say he is fake in the story too to say his claim is not relevant.

I absolutely agree with the bolded part. They will try to stay in charge. For now, the best they can do is keep Tommen alive (and get Myrcella back too).

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

Well, they can't really "trick" Westeros into a new royal family. The lines of succession are usually well known, even if they do get a little muddied. It could be possible for them to name Dany as the heir, knowing that she is on the other side of the world, and rule through a Regent.

The faith might be talked into declaring Dany dead, a heretic, unfit, or whatever, leaving no heirs and causing all hell to break lose.

Dany would make her Dragons kill all the Lannisters (they are considered Robert's dogs), she would happily kills Cersei, Jaime (for her fathe's death), probably she would spare Tommen and Myrcella, but they probably would be sent in exile

House Lannister would be exiled or extinguished

I'm not sure if Cersei would risk it, call Dany back

it's a two sides pointy stick

[Buckwheat]

I agree. I was responding to this:

"There is a legal conflict as well. Robert's will proclaims Joffrey as his heir..."

Yes, your post was only closer to quote. :P

[Where Boars Glow]

It would go to Myrcella and she will be wed, and if Myrcella is to die it would then go to Stannis.

(Assuming this happens in an alternate timeline where they are legitimate and Stannis isn't looked upon as a traitor)

Who would the Lannisters wed Myrcella to? Would they keep the pact with Dorne? A tyrell? A frey?

[Where Boars Glow]

Dany would make her Dragons kill all the Lannisters (they are considered Robert's dogs), she would happily kills Cersei, Jaime (for her fathe's death), probably she would spare Tommen and Myrcella, but they probably would be sent in exile

House Lannister would be exiled or extinguished

I'm not sure if Cersei would risk it, call Dany back

it's a two sides pointy stick

Do you think she would send the Lannister children into exile? Knowing how she felt being sent into exile and how that turned around?

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

People think Aegon is fake, but I don't know, I think Martin is expecting us to be suspecious about Aegon, and then it turned out to be Aegon really

People got used to the idea that Martin always wants to surprise us, but I don't think he intends to surprise all the time, sometimes things are the way they are.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

Who would the Lannisters wed Myrcella to? Would they keep the pact with Dorne? A tyrell? A frey?

Frey?

no way

Lannisters just used them, but they wouldn't marry a royal princess to a ferret Frey

They are doomed (the Freys), all people in Westeros are disgusted of Freys

Cersei considered into punishing some of them to quiet people

[Vuron]

Dany would make her Dragons kill all the Lannisters (they are considered Robert's dogs), she would happily kills Cersei, Jaime (for her fathe's death), probably she would spare Tommen and Myrcella, but they probably would be sent in exile

House Lannister would be exiled or extinguished

I'm not sure if Cersei would risk it, call Dany back

it's a two sides pointy stick

If Tommen and Myrcella die, than it's not really Cersei's decision to make. At that point, Cersei loses all power as she's not even the Queen Mother, anymore.

The final decision on succession normally falls to the Faith when no clear heir is able to be identified. Maybe in the books Gendry could be legitimized, but not in a real world scenario. There is no way to prove that he is actually Robert's son. The faith could, technically, legitimize one of Robert's acknowledged children, but it is unlikely.

If no heirs can be identified, you'd end up with a situation like Gondor in that there is a royal line, but the kindgom is run by stewards until an heir can be found.

[Dementia]

Daughters come before brothers. Males before females is the rule only among siblings (that is why Tommen before Myrcella). Myrcella is Robert's daughter, so she comes before her uncle.

The Martells do not want to usurp the throne.

I assume if both Tommen and Myrcella die, the Lannister-Tyrell alliance will think of a way to keep Margaery queen.

No...males before females...brothers before daughters! And I meant Tyrell, not Martell. I'm going to edit that.