Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Oh, btw because that specific vision was brought up: has it ever been discussed anywere, that Mel is seeing events in Mereene?Are there towers in mereen? We know there are towers on Pyke, and at Oldtown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 As it hapens I just read it yesterday. But can't copy it here. Dead tree stuff, you know... Are you looking for something specific?How about a book and page number and whether or not you have a paperback or hardcover. I just want to re-read it. Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Are there towers in mereen? We know there are towers on Pyke, and at Oldtown. Answered my own question. Yes there are many great towers in Meereen, and the walls that protect it have a tower on each corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted December 12, 2012 Author Share Posted December 12, 2012 Hmm. So since this is about as official as we'll get--I wonder if it confirmation or conjecture that Mel's glamour on Mance made him more powerful. If it is true about the glamour altering a person's abilities that is new info. Gah. Curse my Android devices! :bang:I'm not sure about this one. Glamours mess with the mind(s) of those around the subject. In this case Mance wasn't physically transformed into Rattleshirt, its just that those looking at him thought he was Rattleshirt. Similarly I'd very much doubt that Mance became physically faster or more powerful, but rather that he appeared to be. Its still a useful trick if you can manage it - in a fight if you think your opponent is moving faster, is more powerful and so on, the end result is likely to be the same unless you get lucky.ETA: that being said, when I read that passage in the book, I rather got the impression that Jon was surprised that Rattleshirt was faster and more powerful than he expected, not knowing it was actually Mance he was fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Wing Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Yeah, I mean, it was Mance's speed and agility under the glamor of physical appearance of Rattleshirt. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncat Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 How about a book and page number and whether or not you have a paperback or hardcover. I just want to re-read it. Thanks,Hardcover, edition from Harper Voyager (I guess this is the british edition, got it via amazon.uk the second it was out. The chapter starts on page 768 with the dream. It follows the chapter where Thyrion goes to Ben Plumm and it is followed by the Barristan Chapter called "the discarded Knight"Hope, that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncat Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Answered my own question. Yes there are many great towers in Meereen, and the walls that protect it have a tower on each corner.Thanks. So there is not even the nescessity to recurre to writer's tricks like blurry vision causing confusion between towers and pyramids.Assuming it is Meereen, Why does she get it show (following her idea that R'hollor sends the visions). She is at the Wall in Westeros and the vision is of allmost no use to her, if it is Meereen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Hardcover, edition from Harper Voyager (I guess this is the british edition, got it via amazon.uk the second it was out. The chapter starts on page 768 with the dream. It follows the chapter where Thyrion goes to Ben Plumm and it is followed by the Barristan Chapter called "the discarded Knight"Hope, that helpsNearly perfect. My edition, the POV starts on page 769. I like how he screamed, "I am the Lord of Winterfell."The dream appears as if he's fighting wights by the descriptions of the foemen scuttled up the ice like spiders... and how he "sent them down to die again." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Assuming it is Meereen, Why does she get it show (following her idea that R'hollor sends the visions). She is at the Wall in Westeros and the vision is of allmost no use to her, if it is Meereen.Dany is definitely connected to fire and Moqorro is on his way there. She also had the vision of the wall with the blue winter rose growing out of a chink in the ice, and the parallels between Dany's story and Jon's suggest that they'll definitely meet. And we know how Mel feels about Jon :) .She's still one of the leading candidates for Azor Ahai having fulfilled all the requirements already with her rebirth on the pyre as well. I'm kind of surprised she knows so little about Dany actually.So yeah, no idea why now of all times :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Associate Maester Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 The really frustrating part is there is a nook app version, and the Nook runs android. However, they have their own shit lumped on top of android that handles their app store, so we still cant get it :(When I read they didn't plan on doing an Android version I nearly screamed. It is frustrating because so much depends on context and word choice--see the quoted bit from the app about Mel's glamour on Mance for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 When I read they didn't plan on doing an Android version I nearly screamed. It is frustrating because so much depends on context and word choice--see the quoted bit from the app about Mel's glamour on Mance for example.I'm hoping someone with a rooted nook will post the file. Then I can buy a legitimate copy, and attempt to modify the nook version with a clearer conscience :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Associate Maester Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I do want to do "Wall" and "Wall built". I guess whoever can get to "First Men" can add that. It sounds like a lot already!It is but hey, at least it is a fun side-project. :cheers: Uncat, I'll look for thousand years as well. I assumed Martin was using it in like for a generic "long-time ago" like for example, the number 40 is used the Hebrew Bible and New Testament. However, it needs reevaluation so I'll compile the passages and contexts where Martin uses it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 The shadowbabies that Melisandre created is proof of her abilities, so it may also mean that glamors are more than mind tricks. Especially if Mance was swifter and stronger and not just because Jon thought he was Rattleshirt and was stronger just cuz he was Mance. (i hope that made sense) She realizes that Jon and Ghost have powers also, and I wonder if she hasn't experimented and discovered a way to tap "ice" power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elaena Targaryen Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 @ Uncat forgive me I have not welcomed you back yet. I missed you and I am happy to see you again! I have not been around much myself, until recently, since maybe Heresy 24. Between the threads moving so fast and I have been reading other books / series I have fallen beind but I did want to welcome you back properly.Now I'm curious to any thoughts on Mel and her knowladge of warging. Feather Crystal was kind enough to post the info from the app and it seems Mel knows about the power in Jon and Ghost, how they can use it and how to disrupt it. Add that in with Mel burning Orell's eagle, knowing that she needed to and that he was a threat.Why do you all think Mel knows maybe more than she should about warging? Is it a magical like to like, are there wargs in the east, part of her training, has she spent more time than we know in the north, or maybe you think she knows exactly what she should, or.... ?ETA It looks like in the post above that Feather Crystal and I are thinking along the same lines. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Associate Maester Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 The shadowbabies that Melisandre created is proof of her abilities, so it may also mean that glamors are more than mind tricks. Especially if Mance was swifter and stronger and not just because Jon thought he was Rattleshirt and was stronger just cuz he was Mance. (i hope that made sense)She realizes that Jon and Ghost have powers also, and I wonder if she hasn't experimented and discovered a way to tap "ice" power?It wouldn't surprise me if she wasn't trying to "tap" ice or Wall power. We know she's playing around with her abilities and able to do things he hadn't before. She no doubt has knowledge of multiple forms of magic given that she was in Asshai. Wouldn't surprise me if she isn't experimenting even with ways to combine them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Associate Maester Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 @ Uncat forgive me I have not welcomed you back yet. I missed you and I am happy to see you again! I have not been around much myself, until recently, since maybe Heresy 24. Between the threads moving so fast and I have been reading other books / series I have fallen beind but I did want to welcome you back properly.Now I'm curious to any thoughts on Mel and her knowladge of warging. Feather Crystal was kind enough to post the info from the app and it seems Mel knows about the power in Jon and Ghost, how they can use it and how to disrupt it. Add that in with Mel burning Orell's eagle, knowing that she needed to and that he was a threat.Why do you all think Mel knows maybe more than she should about warging? Is it a magical like to like, are there wargs in the east, part of her training, has she spent more time than we know in the north, or maybe you think she knows exactly what she should, or.... ?ETA It looks like in the post above that Feather Crystal and I are thinking along the same lines. :)The easiest answer for me is that she likely had access to all kinds of books/scrolls/knowledge in Asshai. It was a magical "hotspot" even before magic started getting stronger again and all sorts of magic was practiced there. Not to mention I think the consensus is Mel is definitely older than she appears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Would be quite a reveal if the woman that patched Mances cloak was actually Melisandre heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted to snow Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 There's something that's been bothering me of late, & wanted y'all's opinions & thoughts on the matter (it is off topic, but given the nature of this thread, off-topic post are what keeps it evolving)...It all goes back to MMD's blood magic the night that Drogo was 'saved'... Shadows of the dead were seen dancing: A great wolf & a man wreathed in fire. I took this to me Eddard & Drogo's spirits.But out of all the recently deceased people in the world, why were Eddard & Drogo the one's dancing? Proximity can be ruled out by Ned's presence... What is the author suggesting to the reader by Eddard & Drogo's spirits dancing? Are these spirits becoming one?I have never understood the purpose of this scene... it must be important... will AA be a mixture of Eddard & Drogo?--Fast-Forward to post ADWD times. What is Mel decides that Jon Snow was AA, and breaks-out into her secret AA resurrection dance? Then the spirit of AA turns out to be 1/2 Drogo (warrior) and 1/2 Eddard (honor). This would allow AA to reforge Ice and kill Un-Cat in the forging to yield light-bringer. If I remember correctly, Dondarian's sword burned (like lightbringer) with his own blood, wouldn't Cat's blood the same for Ice? Does this help explain the scene with Drogo at the end of Season II on HBO?This would mean that Jon's dream where he was wearing Black Ice would have been about AA, not himself... This also suggest that Jon will not get his body back (at least while AA lives).I'm not sure that I believe this, just trying to explain the shadows dancing...--Let us not forget that the author has also led us to believe that Bran can bring people back from the dead... --I hope that you guys/girls can help me figure this crap out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 snipIt all goes back to MMD's blood magic the night that Drogo was 'saved'... Shadows of the dead were seen dancing: A great wolf & a man wreathed in fire. I took this to me Eddard & Drogo's spirits.snip(1) One interpretation of this scene is that Dany is a hallucinating specific shapes/images, especially in that Dany thinks "What was wrong with them, couldn't they see?" Jorah et al can't see the shapes because they are not really there.(2) Another interpretation is that Dany is having a very small dose of Targ dream powers, brought on by the trauma of the birth starting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncat Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 It is but hey, at least it is a fun side-project. :cheers: Uncat, I'll look for thousand years as well. I assumed Martin was using it in like for a generic "long-time ago" like for example, the number 40 is used the Hebrew Bible and New Testament. However, it needs reevaluation so I'll compile the passages and contexts where Martin uses it.Yeah, I did read it like that at first, too. But the idea, that GRRM uses this not-a-date kind of date to create an unspecific but definit point somewhere in the past would be a real cute trick and so much like him.Though I guess, that if he does it that way, he would just throw in some odd events, which are really just that: a hell of a long time ago or never happened at all.Anyway, we'll see. Thank for the work :bowdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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