Did Robert know deep down that Lyanna loved Rhaegar?

[orys baratheon no.2]

You know that you can edit your posts right? You don't have to quote yourself and change the quote.

y i know,its kinda my own curse,sorry for that :P

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

y i know,its kinda my own curse,sorry for that :P

It didn't bother me, I was just making sure you knew.

[Lion of Judah]

While there is no evidence to confirm that she loved Rhaegar, I lean towards believing that she did. That said I doubt that Robert ever thought that she loved Rhaegar, he was adamant about her being raped.

[KingOfTheRats]

So Lyanna gave Jon to Ned to rear as his bastard and then she pretended to be Wylla(sp?) and when their ship landed she went into service as a silent sister to avoid Robert. I assume that avoiding Robert could be due to shame or due to love of Rhaegar.

When/how will Lyanna resurface?

I never even suspected that Lyanna could have survived pretending to be Wylla.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Its clear that Rhaegar loved Lyanna. He uttered her name while he died. Selmy says "Rhaegar loved his lady Lyanna." As for the other way around? Theres nothing to say she did and nothing to say she didnt. But then again....Ned remembers Lyanna clutching blue roses that Rhaegar must have given her, on her deathbed. Now, why would she do that if he kidnapped and raped her?

[V Targaryen]

Robert seems to me like the type of person who, even if Lyanna herself told him she loved Rhaegar to his face, would not believe it because it didn't fit with what he wanted. He loved her, wanted her to love him, and felt that Rhaegar was a monster and nothing would change that. If she told him she wanted anyone else but him or she didn't want to be with him, I always assumed he would be like "You don't really mean that." or "He's making you say that."

[astonedtargaryen]

Honestly, I don't think Robert was thinking of anyone's feelings but his own. He tore the seven kingdoms apart to win her back, but as we know from some of Eddard's chapters, he did not truly know her.

He was also a very egotistical man, and I think the idea of any woman willing choosing another over himself seemed impossible, so he immediately jumped to Rhaegar abducting and raping her.

Seems rash, doesn't it?

I believe Lyanna did love Rhaegar, and that they had an affair in secret until it could no longer be concealed.

I hope Martin eventually divulges what happened there, I know we're all dying to know.

[astonedtargaryen]

So Lyanna gave Jon to Ned to rear as his bastard and then she pretended to be Wylla(sp?) and when their ship landed she went into service as a silent sister to avoid Robert. I assume that avoiding Robert could be due to shame or due to love of Rhaegar.

When/how will Lyanna resurface?

that is a very interesting theory, and knowing Martin's passion for crazy twists it could very well be possible.

Although, reading Eddard's chapters, he can still visualize and feel the moment he found her dying. He even mentions one of his men finding him clutching the corpse.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

I don't think he ever considered it until Rhaegar died. When he uttered her name as he died it was probably the first time that Robert even considered that she went willingly. I think THAT was the reason he hated Rhaegar so much. Because he loved Lyanna and she didn't feel the same way about him. He probably blamed Rhaegar for that.

[danm_999]

Its clear that Rhaegar loved Lyanna. He uttered her name while he died. Selmy says "Rhaegar loved his lady Lyanna." As for the other way around? Theres nothing to say she did and nothing to say she didnt. But then again....Ned remembers Lyanna clutching blue roses that Rhaegar must have given her, on her deathbed. Now, why would she do that if he kidnapped and raped her?

While I tend to lean towards Lyanna loving Rhaegar, this isn't really very conclusive evidence of that, as we know Lyanna liked the scent of winter roses, so the flower has symbolism for Lyanna long before Rhaegar comes along. Conceivably, she asked her captors for them during her time in the Tower of Joy, which is why they're present when Ned finds her. It'd also be unlikely that any roses Rhaegar gave Lyanna would survive the months between him leaving the Tower of Joy and Ned arriving.

The roses that Ned finds her with in her hands are not mentioned to be blue, like the roses Rhaegar gave her at the Tourney at Harrenhall. Personally, I've always seen the blue rose as a symbol of Jon, rather than symbolising how Rhaegar and Lyanna felt about each other.

[oursisfury]

she is not described as someone who would act in such a rash and chaotic way,she knew who rhaegars father was.imagine what would happen if she had done it?what would happen to the north,to her brothers to everyone she knew or loved?they would be killed and she would be burned and prolly tortured before and after.

"Ned refers to her, like their brother Brandon, as "wolf-blooded" - headstrong, wilful, courageous and hot-tempered. He goes on to compare her to his tomboyish daughter Arya in both appearance and personality, adding that Lyanna probably would have carried a sword if their father had allowed it."

[Bastard of Nightsong]

What other reason could there be for Robert's extreme hatred of Targs?

I don't really read Robert as the type capable of sufficiently honest self-reflection to realize that 1) Lyanna may not have been kidnapped and raped at all, and 2) his own "love" for Lyanna was really quite shallow. His hatred of Targs stems, I believe, from the fact that Rhaegar absconding with Lyanna ruined the plan* for how his life was supposed to go. Robert was certainly attracted to Lyanna (when she was like 13-14 too, eww), but I think part of that came from her being the closest thing he could get to a female Ned. (Not actually advocating for closeted Rob and Nedbert here. I'm just saying that of all the characters in the books, Robert seems to have the deepest feelings and most honest affection for his foster brother)

*Because of Rhaegar, Robert lost Lyanna. Ned had to go back to Winterfell to be Lord. He had to become king, which he hated. He had to marry Cersei, for gods' sake. He spent his days in council meetings and sitting on that ridiculous throne, instead of drinking, wenching, and fighting (well, he probably spent less time doing those things than he would have liked, anyway). That is a recipe for powerful resentment right there.

[orys baratheon no.2]

Its clear that Rhaegar loved Lyanna. He uttered her name while he died. Selmy says "Rhaegar loved his lady Lyanna." As for the other way around? Theres nothing to say she did and nothing to say she didnt. But then again....Ned remembers Lyanna clutching blue roses that Rhaegar must have given her, on her deathbed. Now, why would she do that if he kidnapped and raped her?

stockholm is op.

[orys baratheon no.2]

"Ned refers to her, like their brother Brandon, as "wolf-blooded" - headstrong, wilful, courageous and hot-tempered. He goes on to compare her to his tomboyish daughter Arya in both appearance and personality, adding that Lyanna probably would have carried a sword if their father had allowed it."

exactly,but she is not described as naive or stupid.

[orys baratheon no.2]

It didn't bother me, I was just making sure you knew.

:ack: ?

[James Arryn]

I doubt Rhaegar's dying words mattered much, but as far as his rage being somewhat premised on insecurity, it's not unlikely. I mean, studies show that the partners of real sexual assault victims often have periods of irrational jealousy/blame the victim/did they enjoy it? stuff, although it's usually not expressed. In addition, cultural standards often placed partial blame on the victim, either by virtue of 'attracting' the attacker, not being careful enough, or putting themselves in a position where it could occur out of some desire for it to happen. In some areas of ancient Greece, a woman was considered responsible or not for her rape dependant entrely upon whether the attack took place in her home or outside it.

So in an archaic society, in an event where the rape isn't even established and with regards to the kingdom's most attractive male, I suspect it would be unusual if it weren't a factor on some level.

But Robert may not need those kind of levels.

[The Butler of Tarth]

I don't know where, other than wishful thinking, did people get the assumption that the name Rhaegar said was Lyanna. The HoTU vision only says about a woman's name so it might as well be Elia.

As in 'Elia, I'm sorry for being a shitty husband'.

[Bastard of Nightsong]

I don't know where, other than wishful thinking, did people get the assumption that the name Rhaegar said was Lyanna. The HoTU vision only says about a woman's name so it might as well be Elia.

As in 'Elia, I'm sorry for being a shitty husband'.

The new aSoIaF app confirms that the name Rhaegar whispered as he died was "Lyanna."

[Makes No Sansa]

I don't think Robert knew. He thought Rhaegar raped Lyanna, and Eddard knew it wasn't like that, but didn't want to make his old friend upset by telling him the truth. He was there, in the Tower of Joy with Lyanna and was told exactly what happened.

[A wilding]

"Ned refers to her, like their brother Brandon, as "wolf-blooded" - headstrong, wilful, courageous and hot-tempered. He goes on to compare her to his tomboyish daughter Arya in both appearance and personality, adding that Lyanna probably would have carried a sword if their father had allowed it."

On top of that, Ned says that Lyanna's wild nature brought her to an early grave. A further implication that she ran off willingly.

And of course Robert is never going to admit that Lyanna willingly chose Rhaegar over him, and that his hatred of Rhaegar was just the resentment of a sore loser whose rightful possession had been snatched from him. Even so he does say to Ned at one point that Rhaegar in some sense won, in that he has Lyanna while Robert has Cersei.