Is this impression of Serena Williams a form of blackface?

[Cold Pie]

Oh, wait, I do. It takes about 0.34 of a second to realise that mocking Christina Hendricks for the size of her ass is different from mocking Serena Williams for the same thing, just as mocking Mick Jagger for having big lips is not the same as mocking a black person for the same thing would be.

Context matters. Apples are not the same as oranges.

Fighting racism is all about not treating someone differently because of ethnicity. So no, I actually don't think it is any difference (if Wozniacki didn't consciously or subconsciously intend it to be racist). However, things becomes what people think and make of them.

Racist is a word that I think is being used to lightly. Overused words tend to lose their original edge or meaning.

[S John]

Maybe I'm getting soft in my "old age," but I am finding it increasingly hard on some of these topics to definitively come down on either side of the issue, and am perplexed by those who seem to be able to cast down, on either side, the Judgment of Solomon based upon the rigorous repetition of a particular fact or two, while seeming to ignore the entire other universe of facts out there. I just don't think there's any way for most of us to truly understand the spirit in which the impression was made, or taken, or appreciate the extent to which the impression's relation to older, gendered and racist portrayals was merely incidental (as Serena's body comes closer to cohering to those stereotypes than her sister's) rather than intentional, and to the extent that even matters. I do think intent matters a lot, although it's certainly not everything, and that if these kinds of impressions are common, then perhaps it's just as important not to exclude someone just because of their race.

But who is to say for sure? Certainly not me. And I'm left, alternately, with either a vague sense of discomfort, or a mild feeling of amusement, as I think about it in different ways. I'm just not sure how anyone can come out, guns blazing, on either side.

This is pretty much where I'm at. When I saw the impression my first thought was not - ohhhh becuase Serena Williams is black and black women have large boobs and butts! It was that she is making a joke that Serena Williams specifically has big boobs and a bigger butt. I can see how someone would tie the two together and in that sense there is a case to be made that it was racist.

My overall impression though, is that it is not. Serena does have ample, uh, assets, but to definitively tie that to her being black? That doesnt make any sense to me. A lot of women of all stripes have large butts and boobs. I can see where the accusations of racism are coming from.... but I think its a bit of a stretch, tbh.

[Mr. E]

My overall impression though, is that it is not. Serena does have ample, uh, assets, but to definitively tie that to her being black? That doesnt make any sense to me. A lot of women of all stripes have large butts and boobs. I can see where the accusations of racism are coming from.... but I think its a bit of a stretch, tbh.

That's what's really bothering me about this one. I'm not one to pull out the "Oh the very fact you're talking about racism makes you racist!" angle, but with this issue specifically, it seems like the people who have a problem with it are saying it's racist because, apparently, all black people have the same body type and all of them have big butts and boobs, and all of them love fried chicken and all of them want rims on their cars and you see what I did there. That just seems a little...questionable...to me.

[MisterOJ]

all of them love fried chicken

I never got this.

All people love fried chicken.

I mean, damn. Who doesn't?

Seriously.

[BigFatCoward]

i once heard somone say that 'black people don't like roast sunday dinners and don't know who jonathan creek is' i didn't even know where to go with that.

[MisterOJ]

i once heard somone say that 'black people don't like roast sunday dinners and don't know who jonathan creek is' i didn't even know where to go with that.

I don't particularly like roasts and have no idea who Jonathan Creek is.

And I like fried chicken. A lot.

I also have black curly hair.

Damn.

[IheartTesla]

Serena should make fun of Wozniaki back by pointing to the grand slam trophies in her cupboard.

[mormont]

Fighting racism is all about not treating someone differently because of ethnicity.

I'm kinda old-fashioned. I think that fighting racism is more fundamentally about not behaving in a racist way.

[Fragile Bird]

Really, is the argument that not engaging in racist mockery is somehow racist because you're excluding the poor black girl? Come on.

The point is that the specific thing for which Serena was being mocked is not some coincidental characteristic unconnected with her race that has zero cultural baggage, as some people are insisting. To publicly mock a black woman for this is racist whether it was intended to be or not and it's therefore patently absurd to even raise the question of 'what is more racist?' Pretty obviously, racist mockery is more racist. Seriously, there aren't many things that are more racist than racist mockery.

I would totally say this crossed the line if Serena was a slender woman with no boobs or butt and a racial stereotype was used to mock her. But the lady has a bodacious body - it's a striking feature of her, one you'd have to be blind to miss, and a feature she flaunts. When I see her on tv - and as I said, I don't watch tennis - it's often because she's worn something on court that shows what a sexy, athletic woman she is. Everynow and then I will actually read People magazine, or some imitator, and if Serena's in it it's because she's either won a tournament and her body is on display in the picture, or because she's worn something outrageous. If this is your public personna, why shouldn't it be mocked? And I didn't call it racist mockery, I asked

is it more racist to leave out the black member because you don't want to be seen as racist, or more racist to include her with the inevitable claim you are racist by mocking her?

Would it have been not racist if a male tennis player put on a padded bra and padded his ass and worn a tennis dress and a wig like her hair and played Serena? Because a man mocking a woman by putting on woman's clothes is always funny?

[Fez]

To me what's racist is the double standard that people held Serena to. A lot of commentators got upset when she did a crip walk to celebrate an Olympic victory; when its just the same harmless fun as this.

[Fragile Bird]

I never saw that.

She got criticized for that little celebratory thing???

[straits]

I never saw that.

She got criticized for that little celebratory thing???

Dem moves.

[AverageGuy]

You've never seen that used as a racist trope?Really?

I admit it took me a second to see it.

Breasts, never. Ass, yes. If she'd only stuffed her pants for the black booty thing, it would've been a little more obvious.

[Fez]

I never saw that.

She got criticized for that little celebratory thing???

Oh yeah, big time.

They didn't claim racism, that'd be tricky, but it was once again white commentators claiming to be offended on behalf of black communities.

[Noontidal]

I'm astonished that there are people who can look at this and not see why it's racist. I mean, for a white woman to mock a black woman by drawing attention to her relatively larger secondary sexual characteristics? You really don't see how that has a racial dimension? You've never seen that used as a racist trope? Really?

Just because you're oblivious to something doesn't mean it doesn't exist, people. This is a thing. A racist thing. Whether Wozniacki meant it to be or whether she, too, was just being oblivious (far more likely IMO), it's still racist. Unintentional racism committed through ignorance is still racism.

I suppose I am astonished that people can look at this and think "racist". Of course, context matters, but there is more than that.

In fact, being oblivious does make it not exist in this case. It is not a thing. It does not exist. Put it this way, if you or others who wish to perceive this as racist did not exist or were otherwise unaware, it would not have any attachment to racism, full stop. For this to be racist you must be brought into the equation; inherently it has no value impacting racism without you to create that connection. While it was 'teasing' which itself may or may not be in good taste, but it is not racist until you and others like you make it. Of course even there we are not using the classic definition of racist:

a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others.

or Racism:

1

: a belief that "]race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2

: racial "]prejudice or discrimination

Just to cover all our bases "prejudice":

1

: injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action of another in disregard of one's rights; especially : detriment to one's legal rights or claims

2

a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge

b : an instance of such judgment or opinion

c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics

We are instead using an ambiguous definition you made up. So, now that you are involved in the discussion, sure, it's racist, whatever that means.

Maybe it is bullying - who has stronger credentials? Not that a weak kid cannot bully a stronger one, but we need more context. Looks like we could tie it to prejudice as long as we ignore context.

[awesome possum]

Not racist.

[Mr. E]

I'm kinda old-fashioned. I think that fighting racism is more fundamentally about not behaving in a racist way.

So everyone's agreed then: Christine isn't racist because she wasn't behaving in a racist way.

End thread?

No, no, way too realistic for that.

[straits]

In fact, being oblivious does make it not exist in this case. It is not a thing. It does not exist. Put it this way, if you or others who wish to perceive this as racist did not exist or were otherwise unaware, it would not have any attachment to racism, full stop. For this to be racist you must be brought into the equation; inherently it has no value impacting racism without you to create that connection.

This is a good point. This needs to be made into a big deal and labeled racist by an uninvolved audience, in order for it to actually become downright offensive.

[Elder Sister]

I so disagree with most of you on this. And I'm probably wrong. :P

I just found it offensive, tacky, racist, and unnecessary.

And I don't consider myself particularly sensitive or pc.

[polishgenius]

To me what's racist is the double standard that people held Serena to. A lot of commentators got upset when she did a crip walk to celebrate an Olympic victory; when its just the same harmless fun as this.

How is it a double standard when both things are being criticised?