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Triskele

The Unholy Consult: Previews and Speculation

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I'm open to better suggestions on a thread title.

Carry on.

ETA: Would it be better if this was an Unholy Consult titled thread?

ETA2: OK - This is a thread discussing R. Scott Bakker's forthcoming book to be called The Unholy Consult.

It is assumed that readers of this thread have read all the way through The White-Luck Warrior or do not mind having spoilers.

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Meh, we could forgo the humor and just say Unholy Consult - Excerpt Speculation.

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There's only so many of us posting here, Trisk, and most of us realize that the name would reflect the fact that there are now four pieces of information, which could be considered post-WLW and under the umbrella of the Unholy Consult (Including but not so much Four Revelations) - False Sun, Ch. 1 Excerpt and Wilshire's summary recollections of the Ch. 3 Reading Except.

Also... no roman numerals[?] Tsk, buddy :P.

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I figure negating the Hegemony of the Quya, if that existed, would be the primary reason the Aporos was banned... but what [you] say brings some interesting thoughts.

Actually, that probably was the primary reason. I just have this weird idea in my head of Nonmen slowly coming to understand that damnation is a real thing. Of course, it is possible they were aware of the Outside even in their primitive eras...

It is weird to me that there seems to be evolution in Earwa, as it makes me wonder when certain moral facts (snakes being holy) came to be true.

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We're painting a neat picture to be sure. Let me add some brush strokes (ironic as Nonman can't understand that representation - I really have to revisit the blog post where Bakker basically explains the Nonmen's understanding of patterns and representation):

To me, it seems the Outside reflects the world of Plato's Forms - the place of the ineffable.

Perhaps, in Earwa's universe, evolution on Earwa (as its supposed center) affects a shadow evolution of the Outside.

Let's say, Earwa is a bi-polar dimension only - whatever that means but here a Void Universe wrapped in one other dimension, the Outside... or two if we count the transcendent realm of the Solitary God.

So the Nonman at whatever point they reach the thresholds of civilization to cause significant moral damage to create Topoi and realize that Topoi are holes, places where this Outside exists...

Cleric mentions being hunted by the very depths they'd (Nonmen) warred to uncover... I always thought that this reflected this mental, noospheric evolution mirrored the creation of the Kiunnat Gods, reminiscent of many of our old discussions about belief determining power/the Outside.

I can't really imagine what comes next but at some point Man being the dominate consciousness purify the Kiunnat Gods, Inri Sejenus reinterprets them as aspects of an immanent God and then Fane, some say an exiled Shrial Priest, goes blind and imagines a transcendent God.

Theological evolution might reflect the cultural evolution in real life but in Earwa?!

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I really liked Happy Ents "Murder Shae Wrote" suggestion! :rofl:

On the subject of evolution, yes its interesting. I don't recall the passage, but it seems to me like the non-men were surprised that humans had souls at one point.

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It was probably always true in-universe, and rather arbitrary and unknowable by our perspective (like a lot of religious dogma).

I think Bakker at one point said, "It's the rare animal that grows a soul". Souls are probably linked to true sentience in some strange, metaphysical way.

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Yeah - Good idea to link what we've got so far.

I agree that Murder Shae Wrote is great. I am just not sure what kind of thread title is appropriate.

Just remember it and we can use it for TUC II!

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One of the things from False Sun that I wonder about is to what degree we're supposed to care about Titirga and what they pulled with him. Does it mean anything for the rest of the story, or was it just a fun way to help pull the curtain back on the Consult a bit?

ETA: Also, does it mean anything at all that Titirga kept a skull tied to his beard and that Sarl did something similar w/ the Captain's head? I can't think of what it could mean, but I noticed it.

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One of the things from False Sun that I wonder about is to what degree we're supposed to care about Titirga and what they pulled with him. Does it mean anything for the rest of the story, or was it just a fun way to help pull the curtain back on the Consult a bit?

I think there has to be something about him. Too much was made of how his stain was different, and we know that the non-men mansions were virtually gateways to Hell. I think the point of the story was a "fun way to help pull the curtain back" but there's much to build on as well.

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