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Gun Control 5


Stubby

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historical list of countries by firearm-related death-rate per 100,000 population in one year -

http://en.wikipedia....ated_death_rate

United States — Gun Facts, Figures and the Law -

http://www.gunpolicy...n/united-states

<snip>

I did not see you in the other threads, ATB, there is another chart that is exactly on point, showing homicides by firearms and listing the homicide rate per 100,000, the number of firearms per 100 persons and the number of firearms per country. Link below.

Yes, it is very striking that they had to go as far afield as India to get some vaguely favourable looking statistics. Comparing the US and India is comparing apples and pears.

Even so, they had to cheat. Note that the deaths are given as absolute numbers and the gun ownership as a percentage (the population of India is higher than the US). And also note they are comparing "firearm homicides" with "deaths resulting from firearms".

P.S. And I note they chose 2008. That was the year of the Mumbai massacre in India, in which a gang of terrorists attacked the city and shot hundreds of people.

This link I believe is more precise. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A9T943Q/?tag=wwwshcooncom-20

The year used is 2007, presumably because that was the focus of analysis done that year. Here is the website of the organization that produced the statistics, and a quick look (don't have time for more) seems to show a difference focus each year.

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I guess im the Ralph Nader of the thread, trying to introduce a 3rd option and getting no popularity

No, you are not the Ralph Nader of the thread. Ralph Nader would not present any theory or make any proposition without extensive statistics that provided evidence to back-up his position.

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The logic of being unable to face an armed intruder with no means of defense, is lost on me.

I'll try to explain:

If the average armed burglar knows that it's a remote possibility that the owners of the property he's intruding will respond with deatly fire, he is very likely to try to avoid at all costs to kill anyone. Obviously, the penalty for stealing is much lesser than the penalty for killing (even if the discount the moral discussion).

In other words: if I discover on armed intruder coming into my house, my chances of survival would be much higher if I don't offer resistence than they would be if I tried to shoot him.

ETA:

I find the opinions on this site overwhelmingly one sided on this issue. Are there any studies perhaps showing a correlation between left leaning political views and the fantasy genre?

One thing that you should take into account is that this is an international board, with the majority of posters being from outside the US. And in many of the countries those posters come from, the need for gun control is a matter both left and right agrees with.

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I find the opinions on this site overwhelmingly one sided on this issue. Are there any studies perhaps showing a correlation between left leaning political views and the fantasy genre?

Why don't you open a thread defending gun ownership, so that you will draw out all your fellow-supporters of gun ownership. There are plenty of them on this board. Perhaps you guys can come up with alternative ideas on how to reduce gun violence.

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I find the opinions on this site overwhelmingly one sided on this issue. Are there any studies perhaps showing a correlation between left leaning political views and the fantasy genre?

Or perhaps there are people who believe gun-control is neither a left nor right issue at all but a human rights issue that transcends the black and white views of political parties.

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I find the opinions on this site overwhelmingly one sided on this issue. Are there any studies perhaps showing a correlation between left leaning political views and the fantasy genre?

Consider the religious right's freakout over the likes of Harry Potter, and yes, I would guess genre readership is skewed to the left.

Just a guesd though, not a study.

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I find the opinions on this site overwhelmingly one sided on this issue. Are there any studies perhaps showing a correlation between left leaning political views and the fantasy genre?

Fellow avatar,

It's important to remember that as dated as the left-right spectrum is, the normal one as applied anywhere but the U.S. is far to the 'left' of what you see as normal. The American centre is actually pretty far to the right on the global scale.

Additionally, gun control has only really been entrenched along the political axis in America. For most of the rest of the rest of the developed world, the anti-gun control argument is no more right wing than the anti-bombs-in-my-basement control argument.

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Countries with extremely high gun ownership percentages oriented towards hunting normally have strict gun control laws as well. See Sweden an;d Finland for example. They also have low rate of gun related killings, too.

Interestingly, nobody goes around these parts roaring about their right to bear arms. Hunting is a fairly normal part of our culture, I suppose, but it's also seen as extremely important to conduct yourself properly as a gun owner and that everything should be administered and licensed properly, with emphasis on security. Even in Finland, which is like the most hardcore country on the planet, easily.

1. There actually is a right to bear arms in the Bill of Rights of the U.S. Constitution, which is why Americans talk about it. There are also much wider and more absolute rights to freedom of speech and assembly in the U.S. than in Europe. There are no laws against hate speech in the U.S.

2. The gun violence argument is a correlation thing again. The state with some of the laxest gun regulations in the U.S. is the noted red state of Vermont (yes that is a joke..Vermont has a Socialist Senator). Vermont also doesn't have much gun violence. It is a fairly rural state and doesn't have alot of diversity. Sweden and Finland probably are alot like Vermont. Most of the gun violence in the U.S. takes place in poor urban areas and is gang violence.

3. I think this is just a difference in governing philosophy. Lots of Americans just don't like having big government tell them what to do. There is a derisive term for it called the nanny state. Most of the biggest gun control advocates just like meddling in people's lives. For instance, Mayor Bloomberg's current crusade is against large sodas.

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I find the opinions on this site overwhelmingly one sided on this issue. Are there any studies perhaps showing a correlation between left leaning political views and the fantasy genre?

I think last month Dick Morris, Karl Rove and UnskewedPolls.com proved people with right leaning political views can be pretty fond of fantasy too.

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Are the majority of boarders from outside the US?

It would be very interesting to have a look at the Board geography.

And my country is an example of what THB said, where the need for gun control is a matter both left and right agrees, thankfully.

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I think last month Dick Morris, Karl Rove and UnskewedPolls.com proved people with right leaning political views can be pretty fond of fantasy too.

I think that Romney would have won if it wasn't for Hurricane Sandy and the self-serving political moves of a certain loudmouth politician from New Jersey. It certainly was trending his way until the storm.

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It would be very interesting to have a look at the Board geography.

And my country is an example of what THB said, where the need for gun control is a matter both left and right agrees, thankfully.

I think that this might be it. Always fascinated by the differences in non-U.S. vs. U.S. attitudes toward govt. For instance, do you feel it is okay for the govt to ban large sodas ala NYC to curb obesity?

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One thing that you should take into account is that this is an international board, with the majority of posters being from outside the US. And in many of the countries those posters come from, the need for gun control is a matter both left and right agrees with.

Agreed. In the UK a whole host of issues that can provoke hysteria in the United States (abortion, gun control, equal rights for homosexuals etc) are not even remotely considered a left/right issue here. Even the Conservatives wouldn't argue for relaxed gun control laws (most of the legal guns in the UK are owned by farmers, and even they are under more scrutiny since an incident where a farmer shot dead a trespasser who was already in the process of leaving his property). There are problems with illegally-obtained firearms, such as a guy who killed two policewomen just a few weeks ago, but these are comparatively rare.

For instance, do you feel it is okay for the govt to ban large sodas ala NYC to curb obesity?

In the UK such an intervention would be controversial, but broadly acceptable since we have a publicly-funded health service and anything that saves that health service (and thus us taxpayers) money is to be welcomed. However, such intervention is rare to non-existent for the simple reason that anyone intent on having that amount to drink could simply buy two soft drinks instead of one. The government prefers promoting healthy eating and a healthier lifestyle through example (hosting the Olympics was a major boost to this initiative this year) or education. Whilst somewhat successful, it's only slowed the speed with which our obesity rates are climbing, not eliminated or reversed them. That would seem to be more of a cultural issue.

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I think that Romney would have won if it wasn't for Hurricane Sandy and the self-serving political moves of a certain loudmouth politician from New Jersey. It certainly was trending his way until the storm.

Putting aside that Morris, Rove and UnskewedPolls all made their Romney landslide predictions post-Sandy, one simply has to look at public opinion polls to realize the idea of Mittmentum was pure fantasy.

This line of discussion is spectacularly off topic however.

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THB,

Are the majority of boarders from outside the US?

I must admit it's just a guess, based on potentially skewed personal perceptions. I guess only Ran could provide us a definte answer.

At least, I can assure that the vast majority of both GRRM's potential readers or the English speakers are not from the USA. So there's a strong possibility that this board follows those patterns to some extent.

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The only problem with guns is that they're designed to kill (people) efficiently, that's the sole reason for a gun to exist.

If you ban guns, you'd still have people doing horrible shit, but the damage would be less (see the China knife incident that happened almost at the same time as the school shootings in the US).

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