Theory About Lightbringer

[Table8]

Here's my crackpot theory. Lightbringer is definitely a sword. From the books, a sword became Lightbringer when AA forged it and stabbed his wife in the chest. I think it was the sacrifice that made the sword enchanted. I always found it odd that GRRM introduced Stannis pulling Lightbringer from the burning Mother statue and in the same chapter Salador says that the burning sword is NOT Lightbringer. usually GRRM doesn't immediately take down a potential mystery, but here we already view Stannis having lightbringer but it's actually a fraud - all in the exact same chapter. Also in that chapter, Davos hears the story of Nissa Nissa and shudders at the thought of doing something like that to his wife.

Since the Stannis=AA is so quickly refuted in the Davos chapter, I have a feeling that in fact he WILL emerge as such. I always took Lightbringer to be a typical sword until the death of Nissa. Perhaps Stannis will learn that, but it will require Stannis to make a sacrifice as well. There doesn't seem to be much love between Stan and Selyce, but perhaps the way to Lightbringer will be for Stan to sacrifice the only friend he has - Davos. Considering Davos reaction to the Nissa story, there is a bit of irony if he were to be sacrificed.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I'm still fond of the Night's Watch theory. It's a perfect middle ground: elegant enough not to be beat-you-over-the-head obvious, but also grounded enough in words and imagery that, if it turns out to be true, no one could cry foul over it. It's a solution that would yield reactions of, "Of course, I should have seen it all along," rather than, "What the hell, where did THAT come from?" Assuming people are paying attention, I mean. <_<

Whatever it ends up being — group, person, animal, whatever — I still do not think we're dealing with a literal sword. I think that the parade of swords — Longclaw, Dawn, Ice, Oathkeeper, Blackfyre, etc. — is a distraction; people look at the list of swords to "find" Lightbringer, when it isn't a sword at all.

[Table8]

Just thinking about it, the Latin for Lightbringer is Lucifer. Probably doesn't mean anything.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Just thinking about it, the Latin for Lightbringer is Lucifer. Probably doesn't mean anything.

This may have been either before my time or when I was on a hiatus, but I'm pretty sure there was a thread posing that very same argument. Worth checking out! :)

[ab aeterno]

Where are all the Stannis fans to point out that Stannis already holds Lightbringer?

Not even Stannis believes that it is actually Lightbringer. :P

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Where are all the Stannis fans to point out that Stannis already holds Lightbringer?

While I note your attempt at pithiness, I can't think of a single Stannis fan who actually thinks his Lightbringer is the real one.

[Black Wolf Smith]

Uhnn... do you think they are all dead brothers? Now I want to hear it :)

I am a Heretic, a Crack pot, and conspiracy nut, you sure you want to know?

I believe when the CotF made the Walls, they scarificed Wood dancers, literally turning them in to the water that made up the Walls. When they used the Hammer of Water, and broke apart the first wall, they released the Wood dancers inside, spilling them in to the Oceans. Some of which found their way north into the land of Always winter were they discovered ice allowed them to retake solid form. So heat/fire literally evaporites them.

On a side note, the ones who did not find there way are where the Drowned God came from.

Now that is that is a real crack pot theory.

Yeah I think it unlikely dragonsteel is anything other than Valyrian steel. It's too late to introduce another magical metal imo. If the name has any significance I think it's as an indication that dragons weren't always Valyrian.

If I had any money what so ever, I bet against it. When, WHEN! In this series has anything been that simply? Arya is 50feet from getting back to her mother, Ned is 5 minutes from going to the Wall, on and on, and you think that they have the right answer that easy?

Since I believe Jon is AA reborn, I think Longclaw will become Lightbringer.

If that is the way you want to go, then take it as Half hand = nissa nissa, and Jon just needs to be "reborn"

I so wish we had smile face that did a face plant.

Just thinking about it, the Latin for Lightbringer is Lucifer. Probably doesn't mean anything.

Some had a very good post about that, last summer. I wish we could put pins in things so we could find them later.

[The Dragon has three heads]

Yeah I think it unlikely dragonsteel is anything other than Valyrian steel. It's too late to introduce another magical metal imo. If the name has any significance I think it's as an indication that dragons weren't always Valyrian.

Yes.

[Gi_Varotti]

Thanks, I my self am not a hundred percent sure on the timeline or if the source for dragon steel was the text that mentions the long night, it's been a while since I read the chapter where it comes up.

Might need to wait for one of the forum heavyweights to clarify the issue lol :-)

I did a quick research to inform myself on the Long Night and what I saw mentioned was dragonglass. Could Lightbringer be made of dragonglass instead of steel or another metal? The candles made of obsidian had a curious light about themselves...

BTW, would dragon bone be white (because bones are white) or black (because Arya and Tyrion saw the black skulls)?

Here:

The Others were eventually checked when it was discovered that weapons made of dragonglass could kill them. A great hero, who in the eastern tradition is known as Azor Ahai, led the war against the Others wielding his sword of fire, Lightbringer, driving the Others back. In theWesterosi tradition he may be known as the last hero.

A glass candle is a candle made of obsidian. Historically they burned, but they have not been reported to burn in recent memory. One green and three black candles were brought to the Citadel from Valyria a thousand years before the Doom of Valyria. The glass candles give off an unpleasantly bright light and does strange things to colors (white was bright as fresh fallen snow, yellow shone like gold , reds turned to flame, and shadows were so black that they looked like holes in the world).

We know that Lightbringer seemed to be on fire but maybe it wasn't actually on fire.

Thanks Lady Tippy Wolfsbane :).

But I'm still for the theory that Lightbring is Jon or The Night's Watch rather than a sword.

I am a Heretic, a Crack pot, and conspiracy nut, you sure you want to know?

I believe when the CotF made the Walls, they scarificed Wood dancers, literally turning them in to the water that made up the Walls. When they used the Hammer of Water, and broke apart the first wall, they released the Wood dancers inside, spilling them in to the Oceans. Some of which found their way north into the land of Always winter were they discovered ice allowed them to retake solid form. So heat/fire literally evaporites them.

On a side note, the ones who did not find there way are where the Drowned God came from.

Now that is that is a real crack pot theory.

Hahahaha, and I'm as curious as you're those ;).

I don't think your theory is crazy, I believe that there's something frozen in The Wall.

Maybe the Wildlings desire to bring it down isn't just to head south of the Wall and 'take control' of the cities, maybe they know about it (they know many stories) and that it can help destroy The Others.

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

Martin has said before that these ancient dates are not to be trusted. For anything that long ago, "X thousand years ago" really just means "a long, long time ago." It's entirely possible that the long night actually occurred after the founding of Valyria. The history is, quite deliberately, muddled. We may get some clarity next year when the world book gets published.

True, but that also means that the Long Night could have still happened before the founding of Valyria, so my thoughts are safe for the moment. :)

@ Lady Tippy Wolfsbane.

Yayy! A forum heavyweight heard my prayers :-)

I'm getting more and more sold on the idea that either dragon steel and Valyrian steel are different things, or the technique of forging Valyrian steel predates the freehold.

Me too!!!

Here's my crackpot theory. Lightbringer is definitely a sword. From the books, a sword became Lightbringer when AA forged it and stabbed his wife in the chest. I think it was the sacrifice that made the sword enchanted.

According to the Azor Ahai legend it was a sword, but there's no way of knowing if the legend is really how it happened. Also, just because Azor Ahai had a sword it doesn't mean that "Azor Ahai Reborn" would wield a sword.

I always found it odd that GRRM introduced Stannis pulling Lightbringer from the burning Mother statue and in the same chapter Salador says that the burning sword is NOT Lightbringer. usually GRRM doesn't immediately take down a potential mystery, but here we already view Stannis having lightbringer but it's actually a fraud - all in the exact same chapter. Also in that chapter, Davos hears the story of Nissa Nissa and shudders at the thought of doing something like that to his wife.

I don't think it was odd at all since no one really believed Stannis was "Azor Ahai Reborn/"The Prince That Was Promised"...not even Stannis. I think it was just a way to introduce the concept of Azor Ahai and AAR/TPTWP. And to also introduce us to R'hllor and the fanatical devotion of his followers.

Since the Stannis=AA is so quickly refuted in the Davos chapter, I have a feeling that in fact he WILL emerge as such. I always took Lightbringer to be a typical sword until the death of Nissa. Perhaps Stannis will learn that, but it will require Stannis to make a sacrifice as well. There doesn't seem to be much love between Stan and Selyce, but perhaps the way to Lightbringer will be for Stan to sacrifice the only friend he has - Davos. Considering Davos reaction to the Nissa story, there is a bit of irony if he were to be sacrificed.

If AAR is also TPTWP I don't see Stannis being AAR/TPTWP. The woods witch's prophecy meant it would have been Rhaegar, Viserys, Aegon, or Jon (if R+L=J). I personally believe it's Jon and that's the reason for the secret surrounding his parentage. Of course this means that I don't believe Jon is dead.

Now, if AAR is separate from TPTWP I still can't see Stannis becoming AAR, but it is possible. My refusal to see it is probably due to the fact that I'm in love with his character. :wub: Long live the king. :bowdown:

I'm still fond of the Night's Watch theory. It's a perfect middle ground: elegant enough not to be beat-you-over-the-head obvious, but also grounded enough in words and imagery that, if it turns out to be true, no one could cry foul over it. It's a solution that would yield reactions of, "Of course, I should have seen it all along," rather than, "What the hell, where did THAT come from?" Assuming people are paying attention, I mean. <_<

I must admit that I do enjoy your Night's Watch theory.

Whatever it ends up being — group, person, animal, whatever — I still do not think we're dealing with a literal sword. I think that the parade of swords — Longclaw, Dawn, Ice, Oathkeeper, Blackfyre, etc. — is a distraction; people look at the list of swords to "find" Lightbringer, when it isn't a sword at all.

:agree:

I did a quick research to inform myself on the Long Night and what I saw mentioned was dragonglass. Could Lightbringer be made of dragonglass instead of steel or another metal? The candles made of obsidian had a curious light about themselves...

BTW, would dragon bone be white (because bones are white) or black (because Arya and Tyrion saw the black skulls)?

It could be possible, and is a fascinating idea. It would also be a nice contrast to the weapons used by the Others.

The dragon bones in ASOIAF are always black due to their high iron content.

Thanks Lady Tippy Wolfsbane :).

But I'm still for the theory that Lightbring is Jon or The Night's Watch rather than a sword.

I also doubt that it's a sword. I believe Jon is TPTWP and he will wield "Lightbringer"--whatever it may be. And I believe the original "Lightbringer" was a dragon--that may have been hidden in the wall or under Winterfell, I'm a bit of a crack-pot/heretic. :D

[Know Face Man]

While I note your attempt at pithiness, I can't think of a single Stannis fan who actually thinks his Lightbringer is the real one.

Yup big Stannis fan here and the Lightbringer he holds is fake.

[Know Face Man]

I'm not really sure how anyone can doubt that the First Lightbringer was a Sword? Its stated a few times that it was a Sword.

Now if you want to say the new Lightbringer is the NW or Dragons I can respect that.. but the First Lightbringer was a Sword. Try not to over think!

[ab aeterno]

I'm not really sure how anyone can doubt that the First Lightbringer was a Sword? Its stated a few times that it was a Sword.

Now if you want to say the new Lightbringer is the NW or Dragons I can respect that.. but the First Lightbringer was a Sword. Try not to over think!

We don't even know that the original was a sword. Just because people refer to it as such doesn't mean much. People say that Bran the Builder built WF, the Wall and Storm's End or that Lann the Clever tricked the Casterlys from the Rock.

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

I'm not really sure how anyone can doubt that the First Lightbringer was a Sword? Its stated a few times that it was a Sword.

Now if you want to say the new Lightbringer is the NW or Dragons I can respect that.. but the First Lightbringer was a Sword. Try not to over think!

According to the Azor Ahai 'legend' it was a sword. And according to another legend dragons burst out of a moon. ;)

[Gi_Varotti]

It could be possible, and is a fascinating idea. It would also be a nice contrast to the weapons used by the Others.

The dragon bones in ASOIAF are always black due to their high iron content.

I also doubt that it's a sword. I believe Jon is TPTWP and he will wield "Lightbringer"--whatever it may be. And I believe the original "Lightbringer" was a dragon--that may have been hidden in the wall or under Winterfell, I'm a bit of a crack-pot/heretic. :D

Thanks for the explanation on the dragon bone!

Yeah, I also think that there's something in The Wall (an ice dragon would be cool) or in Winterfell's crypts.

I'm still fond of the Night's Watch theory. It's a perfect middle ground: elegant enough not to be beat-you-over-the-head obvious, but also grounded enough in words and imagery that, if it turns out to be true, no one could cry foul over it. It's a solution that would yield reactions of, "Of course, I should have seen it all along," rather than, "What the hell, where did THAT come from?" Assuming people are paying attention, I mean. <_<

Whatever it ends up being — group, person, animal, whatever — I still do not think we're dealing with a literal sword. I think that the parade of swords — Longclaw, Dawn, Ice, Oathkeeper, Blackfyre, etc. — is a distraction; people look at the list of swords to "find" Lightbringer, when it isn't a sword at all.

That's my favourite one too. It's all in the oath, all in the oath :)

[dragsaw]

I don't get it. Azor Ahai, summons dragons...dragons! Then instead of using them to fight the Great Other, he has them make a sword...but that's not Lightbringer and isn't used to slay the Great Other?

is the sword made of dragons?

[Bear Island Bruiser]

Light bringer is Dawn. Jon, as the son of Ashara Danye and Ned, will claim it and become the Sword of the Morning. Uniting a Star, fire, and his winter is coming Starkness, Ice, to become the Last Hero. The sword for Azor Ahai reborn, Dany. It is known.