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Margaery: Was Renly There First?


Heir to His House

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So this has always made me wonder: Did Margaery actually seal the deal with Renly during her brief marriage?

I'm of the opinion that the answer is yes. We all know Renly was gay and based on the TV interpretation where he seemed quite gun-shy it was implied that he hadn't done anything.

But the book Renly is different. He's less serious, more of a braggart---telling Stannis he'll have an heir within the year at the Peachy Meetup---and in general always made me wonder whether he was more bisexual than anything. The anecdotal evidence of him and Loras laughing at the bedding seems to make me wonder.

The final answer for me on the 'yes' front is Pycelle's moon tea. I don't know for sure whether she was more than a flirt with the many men in her retinue---it seems likely that flirting was the line---but I DO think the moon tea was legit: Wiping out an heir of Renly she discovered was on its way right before Joffy Poo chocked on some pigeon pie.

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No, Renly did not bang Margaery, and Pycelle lied about the Moon Tea as it was obvious that it was what Cersei wanted to hear.

IMO.

Pycelle didn't lie, I think Margaery did request moon tea for menstrual cramps and such.

Renly didn't consummate his relationship with Margaery, that much I am certain.

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At the time of their wedding, Renly was planning on becoming king, and to be a true king, you need an heir. Plenty of closeted gay men have sex with women and produce children, so there's no reason to think Renly wouldn't do what needed to be done. So yes, Renly was Margaery's first (and thus far only) lover.

As for the moon tea, it seemed pretty obvious Pycelle was making it up.

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Renly never was. Margeary's sex life, if she has had or has is in question. Cersei has said that the simple act of riding a horse could deflower a woman and that is very true. We are left to guess and wait for her trial and judgement by the high Septon.

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Considering the positions of both Maegaery and Renly, I cannot possibly see how they did not have sex. An heir was extremely important.

How? Have you considered Renly's sexual orientation? There is also the fact that he didn't know he was going to die soon with the largest army in Westeros at his back.

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I can see it being 50/50. I think the major reason the Tyrells pressed Margaery's virginity was so that she could marry Joffrey right away; otherwise they'd've had to wait several months, maybe even a year or more. It's not because it was a big deal for Margaery to be a virgin.

There is absolutely nothing wrong in a medieval-ish society with a non-virgin widow becoming a queen consort. Catherine Parr and Elizabeth Woodville both did it, for example. Where you get sticky is when it comes to extramarital intercourse, which is moot for Renly and Margaery as they were, you know, married. So based on that, I have to say the virginity claim was more about pressing ahead with the Lannister wedding and less to do with passing Margaery off as "untainted."

How? Have you considered Renly's sexual orientation? There is also the fact that he didn't know he was going to die soon with the largest army in Westeros at his back.

Plenty of gay men have and have had sex with women to produce children. Including monarchs. Edward II was gay every day and thrice on Tuesday, and even he had Edward III with Isabella of France.

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How? Have you considered Renly's sexual orientation? There is also the fact that he didn't know he was going to die soon with the largest army in Westeros at his back.

His sexual orientation? Are you kidding me?

He was going to have to fuck Maegaery SOMETIME, his life and kingship depended on it. I see no reason why he would have put the deed off - the book Renly is not the whiny, snarky, emotionally fragile stereotype of the show. He knew what needed to be done, he'd have grinned and bore it.

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Plenty of gay men have and have had sex with women to produce children. Including monarchs. Edward II was gay every day and thrice on Tuesday, and even he had Edward III with Isabella of France.

I wasn't saying he wasn;t going to bed Margaery ever, but that he probably didn't at their wedding. I know about gay kings siring children. Renly was going to lay with Margaery sometime, but he had the largest army and he was sure of his success, that he was probably going to put it off for a while.

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I've always assumed the Tyrells all knew about Renly and Loras, that's right isn't it?

With that being the case, it could be that the Tyrells weren't set on Renly "grinning and bearing it" straight away because of the chance (which came to happen) that it would leave them still in a position of strength with Marg as a bargaining tool if Renly lost.

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I've always assumed the Tyrells all knew about Renly and Loras, that's right isn't it?

With that being the case, it could be that the Tyrells weren't set on Renly "grinning and bearing it" straight away because of the chance (which came to happen) that it would leave them still in a position of strength with Marg as a bargaining tool if Renly lost.

I agree i always assumed the same thing about the Tyrells knowing, i think their relationship was kind of an open secret. Interesting point, maybe they would have wanted to put the bedding off...

But I'm not sure how long Renly and Margery were married exactly? The longer it is, the less likely that they didn't have sex...

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From Cersei's first chapter in AFFC:

Mace Tyrell claimed his daughter was still a virgin, but Cersei still had her doubts. Joffrey had been murdered before he could bed the girl, but she had been married to Renly first ...

A man may prefer the taste of hippocras, yet if you set a tankard of ale before him, he will quaff it quick enough.

This seems to suggest that Cersei was sure Renly had bedded her, but also that she believed Renly was gay.

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Yes Renly would have had to have sex with Marg at some point but I don't believe that he had when he died. Sworn Shield's quote above can be taken in a different way, if the hippocras is always there then why choose the ale? If Loras had been away then I think that would be when Renly and Marg got down to it, but not before.

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I can see it being 50/50. I think the major reason the Tyrells pressed Margaery's virginity was so that she could marry Joffrey right away; otherwise they'd've had to wait several months, maybe even a year or more. It's not because it was a big deal for Margaery to be a virgin.

There is absolutely nothing wrong in a medieval-ish society with a non-virgin widow becoming a queen consort. Catherine Parr and Elizabeth Woodville both did it, for example. Where you get sticky is when it comes to extramarital intercourse, which is moot for Renly and Margaery as they were, you know, married. So based on that, I have to say the virginity claim was more about pressing ahead with the Lannister wedding and less to do with passing Margaery off as "untainted."

Plenty of gay men have and have had sex with women to produce children. Including monarchs. Edward II was gay every day and thrice on Tuesday, and even he had Edward III with Isabella of France.

Off topic but the story about how he died has to be one of the more outrageous things I have ever heard.
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A man may prefer the taste of hippocras, yet if you set a tankard of ale before him, he will quaff it quick enough.

This seems to suggest that Cersei was sure Renly had bedded her, but also that she believed Renly was gay.

Mainly it suggests that Cersei has no idea what "gay" means though.

Generally, I'm not sure Renly would ever have had sex with Margaery. It's possible he'd clench his teeth and bear it out (though that's more of his brother's thing). But even if not, I'm quite certain that Margaery would have managed to give him some heirs and he'd have been smart enough not to raise any questions.

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Yes Renly would have had to have sex with Marg at some point but I don't believe that he had when he died. Sworn Shield's quote above can be taken in a different way, if the hippocras is always there then why choose the ale? If Loras had been away then I think that would be when Renly and Marg got down to it, but not before.

Yeah, I always thought of that as a secret joke. Cersei hears someone say that Renly was "ready" for the bedding but didn't Loras carry Margaery to the bed? Man it's the peach all over again.

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Mainly it suggests that Cersei has no idea what "gay" means though.

Generally, I'm not sure Renly would ever have had sex with Margaery. It's possible he'd clench his teeth and bear it out (though that's more of his brother's thing). But even if not, I'm quite certain that Margaery would have managed to give him some heirs and he'd have been smart enough not to raise any questions.

I kind of presumed that Renly would do it with Marg eventually but that makes sense, her and Loras are close enough for her to know what's going onm and I guess the rest of the Tyrells did too, unless they were hoping that Renly would become fond of one of his nephews and appoint him heir. Either way its win win for the Tyrells.

Yeah, I always thought of that as a secret joke. Cersei hears someone say that Renly was "ready" for the bedding but didn't Loras carry Margaery to the bed? Man it's the peach all over again.

I took that to mean he was ready for Loras too!

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